Dante Exum - Jazz development plan

[Dr. Jones]

We need only be concerned with shooters on the perimeter. Exum will disrupt the defense and we need guys to hit shots from outside so the options open up for dump downs to the post. Minutes shminutes.

 

[The Midnight]

We need only be concerned with shooters on the perimeter. Exum will disrupt the defense and we need guys to hit shots from outside so the options open up for dump downs to the post. Minutes shminutes.

Been saying this for a while now.

 

[Jazz4ever]

And Dante appears mature beyond his years. What I don't understand is why a 1-year vet gets preferential treatment to a 3-year vet like Burks? You are saying that Burke's seniority gives him the starting nod over Dante at PG, but Burks's doesn't at the SG? And everyone who watched SL knows that Dante's shot needs some work, so why would we start him at shooting guard when we have Burks and Hayward?

I don't read much into summer league, Schroeder was looking wise beyond his years last year in SL and fell flat on his face in the regular season. Burke has proven he can run an NBA team, and do it with an exceptionally low turnover rate. He can space the floor from three which Dante won't be doing anytime soon. That is important because Hayward and Burks will also be driving looking to kick out. If Dante has to pass on 3s because he can't hit them, its a huge disadvantage in a short shot clock. As to your second point, you're right, Exum probably doesn't get the nod for SG either, and will be the 6th man.

 

[The Midnight]

I don't read much into summer league, Schroeder was looking wise beyond his years last year in SL and fell flat on his face in the regular season. Burke has proven he can run an NBA team, and do it with an exceptionally low turnover rate. He can space the floor from three which Dante won't be doing anytime soon. That is important because Hayward and Burks will also be driving looking to kick out. If Dante has to pass on 3s because he can't hit them, its a huge disadvantage in a short shot clock. As to your second point, you're right, Exum probably doesn't get the nod for SG either, and will be the 6th man.

That's why Exum is really our future PG and Burke really needs to go.



Tony Parker doesn't hit the 3pt shot neither, but he is quick, he gets to the rim and finish, and get his teammates involved. That's who Exum could be for us with even better passing. The best way to deal with a guy who can't shoot is to put the ball in his hand and let him create (Parker, LeBron, Magic).

 

[Jazz4ever]

That's why Exum is really our future PG and Burke really needs to go.



Tony Parker doesn't hit the 3pt shot neither, but he is quick, he gets to the rim and finish, and get his teammates involved. That's who Exum could be for us with even better passing. The best way to deal with a guy who can't shoot is to put the ball in his hand and let him create (Parker, LeBron, Magic).

Yeah he could be a bigger Parker, eventually, in 5-6 years. If you read between the lines, like DL saying they aren't going to skip steps and how Trey learned a lot when he got injured, all signs point to Burke starting.

 

[silesian]

I want to see 3 players who were played big mins early which hurt their development and diminished their career. List 3, ready set go:

1.
2.
3.

There are many players who play a large number of minutes in their first year and then slide to mediocrity or worse: Dajuan Wagner, Javis Hayes, Charlie Villanueva, Adam Morrison, Yi Jianlian, Beasley, OJ Mayo, DJ Augustine. All had >25 mpg in first year. You can argue that their playing time had nothing to do with their slip, but that is impossible to prove either way.

At the same time, there are many players who start their careers with moderate minutes played and then develop into Allstars: Kobe (15 mpg), Dirk (20 mpg), Noah (20 mpg), Paul George (21 mpg), Nash (10 mpg), Stockton (18 mpg).

So the notion that playing Exum 20 mpg plus or minus minutes per game will somehow hurt his development, especially at his age, is weak. Quin and DL will get it right.

 

[silesian]

lol @ Locke. Every rookie of the year played a ton of minutes. How in the hell did any of them become good NBA players? Locke is such a moran.

You have to play a lot of minutes to win rookie of the year, so using that as a basis for your argument is very weak. (by the way it is "moron")

The relevant question is, what is the optimal number of minutes played in order to optimize long-term development. It varies by specific player circumstance, including age.

 

[silesian]

You can't really compare the two strategies unless you can an alternate universe. Also have to realize that you have 4 other players to develop on the court. Does having a player who might not be ready to play hurt the other player's development?

This isn't some theory Locke just made up. There are clearly people who feel the same way (Jerry Sloan) about not playing young guys too much. I agree with it, to an extent.

If Exum gets 25 mpg this year, is that "throwing him to the wolves"? It's all relative, but that could still be considered bringing him along slowly, depending on your perspective.

Personally, I feel like "throwing to the wolves" or not having much regard for the player's age, would be starting Exum and playing him 35 mpg. I doubt we would do that, and I think that would possibly hurt his growth, and would hurt the other player's development on the team.

This, nice post

 

[silesian]

What makes this whole debate seem silly are those treating Trey as a "veteran." Trey average 32.3 mpg last year as a rookie, so let's stop with the double standard. Let Trey and Dante go into the preseason with starting and minutes up for grabs and may the best man win.

Trey Burke with 2 full seasons top level college, conference championships, deep into NCAA tourney, 1 full NBA season. Dante: high school, amateur allstar and Aussie international. Apples meet oranges.

 

[Ellipse]

I don't read much into summer league, Schroeder was looking wise beyond his years last year in SL and fell flat on his face in the regular season. Burke has proven he can run an NBA team, and do it with an exceptionally low turnover rate. He can space the floor from three which Dante won't be doing anytime soon. That is important because Hayward and Burks will also be driving looking to kick out. If Dante has to pass on 3s because he can't hit them, its a huge disadvantage in a short shot clock. As to your second point, you're right, Exum probably doesn't get the nod for SG either, and will be the 6th man.

People keep acting like Burke has some special skill that Exum doesn't have. If it's shooting, then it's only by 2-3%. Judging from SL, Exum's court vision is much better than Burke's, and his slashing speed makes him far more lethal on kick-outs to spot-up shooters. Exum also runs the P&R and P&P better than Burke. Playing Burke means same-o, same-o for Favors, Kanter, and Hayward. Playing Exum means those 3 should show dramatic improvement in their offense.

 

[orangello]

Lots to disagree with on this. Let's get started..........

I don't read much into summer league, Schroeder was looking wise beyond his years last year in SL and fell flat on his face in the regular season.

He played behind a clearly better PG in Teague. Schroder certainly is raw as well but he's got the physical tools to get much better.

Burke has proven he can run an NBA team, and do it with an exceptionally low turnover rate.

He slowed down the offense for his own good and the detriment of the rest of the team. Not exactly what I want from a "leader" on my team.

He can space the floor from three which Dante won't be doing anytime soon.

Trey hit some clutch shots during the season but let's stop pretending that 33% is a floor spreading percentage. Dante's shot certainly needs work but getting to 33% isn't out of reach very quickly.

That is important because Hayward and Burks will also be driving looking to kick out. If Dante has to pass on 3s because he can't hit them, its a huge disadvantage in a short shot clock.

Um, your logic here is very backwards. Dante and Burks are much more likely to drive and kick then Hayward is.

Also, one of the things I really liked from Dante's game was the ability to keep the ball moving by making the extra (right) pass.

As to your second point, you're right, Exum probably doesn't get the nod for SG either, and will be the 6th man.

I don't hate the idea of Dante leading the bench crew but let's not pretend that Burke's is so far ahead of Dante that starting him would be preposterous.



As a side note, you failed to mention defense at all. Dante has the physical tools to be an elite PG defender. Again, another I liked from him during SL was his ability to stay in front of his man. I'd say right now that Exum's defense is already better than Burke's and remember, that's half of the game.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I think there is zero chance that Exum starts game one. However, I believe this mgmt and coaching staff will allow a player to force their hand and start them if the player makes it obvious he should be.

Burke/Exum
Burks/Exum
Hayward/Hood
Kanter/Booker
Favors/Gobert

That look right?

 

[orangello]

People keep acting like Burke has some special skill that Exum doesn't have. If it's shooting, then it's only by 2-3%. Judging from SL, Exum's court vision is much better than Burke's, and his slashing speed makes him far more lethal on kick-outs to spot-up shooters. Exum also runs the P&R and P&P better than Burke. Playing Burke means same-o, same-o for Favors, Kanter, and Hayward. Playing Exum means those 3 should show dramatic improvement in their offense.

You've been killing it in this thread. Keep up the good work.

 

[orangello]

I think there is zero chance that Exum starts game one. However, I believe this mgmt and coaching staff will allow a player to force their hand and start them if the player makes it obvious he should be.

Burke/Exum
Burks/Exum
Hayward/Hood
Kanter/Booker
Favors/Gobert

That look right?

I agree that Exum won't start to begin the season but this notion that Burke is light-years ahead of Exum as of today is idiotic at best.

As other have layed out, Dante sees the floor better and runs the pnr and pnp better already. Based on what I saw during SL, Dante is already a better defender than Burke. Some people are forgetting that when you're on the court you have to play offense and defense.

Now back to your line up suggestion, I think that is the realistic line up that we'll be looking at. I could see Novak getting equal time with Booker. I think that line ups will define the playing time for those two.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Dante needs to play 20+ mins/night, and he needs to run with the starters. In order to learn the system and understand his opportunities in it, he needs to play with guys who can fully execute it. There is enough talent on the floor for Exum to lean on with Hayward, Burks, Kanter and Favors, that I don't think Exum will feel overwhelmed. He can share the ball with Hayward and Burks to take pressure off if he needs to, just like Burke did last year.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Exum's physical abilities are so far beyond Burke's that even if Exum is raw and new to running the team, he's still just as good or better overall.

Ultimately, I think the Jazz will move Trey Burke within a year or so before too many more capable PGs enter the league.

 

[Stifle Tower]

I don't read much into summer league, Schroeder was looking wise beyond his years last year in SL and fell flat on his face in the regular season. Burke has proven he can run an NBA team, and do it with an exceptionally low turnover rate. He can space the floor from three which Dante won't be doing anytime soon. That is important because Hayward and Burks will also be driving looking to kick out. If Dante has to pass on 3s because he can't hit them, its a huge disadvantage in a short shot clock. As to your second point, you're right, Exum probably doesn't get the nod for SG either, and will be the 6th man.

How can Burke space the floor? He's a 38%/33% shooter. That's TERRIBLE! Only thing that's ever been proven is he can space the floor in the last 5 minutes of a game when his stats have miraculously been a lot higher (which means he sucks even worse the first 3 1/2 quarters).

Burke can't "run" an NBA team but he can "walk" one. He'll be the starter, but the sooner the team can be turned over to Exum, the better. Burke is a slow, poor-shooting, weak-defending small PG who doesn't get to the rim very often. And the fact he does have 3 more years experience than Dante (2 college + 1 NBA) makes me even LESS hopeful. After all that time and an embarrassing SL last year, you'd think he'd work extra on his shooting. Apparently not. He comes back against rookies and scrubs and shoots 30%/14%. Not a good sign.

 

[orangello]

Dante needs to play 20+ mins/night, and he needs to run with the starters. In order to learn the system and understand his opportunities in it, he needs to play with guys who can fully execute it. There is enough talent on the floor for Exum to lean on with Hayward, Burks, Kanter and Favors, that I don't think Exum will feel overwhelmed. He can share the ball with Hayward and Burks to take pressure off if he needs to, just like Burke did last year.

All great points.

Here's a trade idea Burke to Sacramento for Ray McCallum. With Ty and Stauskas in Sacramento, maybe they'll vouch for Burke and the trade will happen.

Exum's physical abilities are so far beyond Burke's that even if Exum is raw and new to running the team, he's still just as good or better overall.

Ultimately, I think the Jazz will move Trey Burke within a year or so before too many more capable PGs enter the league.

 

[Litany]

My opinion is that a coach should play his best players the most minutes. Isn't winning the point of the game? I think playing him 25 minutes is certainly giving him a chance to develop and adjustments should be made depending how he is playing. The problem I had with Sloan and Ty is that many times they were willing to accept veteran mistakes but if a rookie made a mistake many times they found themselves on the bench or worse they suffered a few DNPs. Neither of those coaches were that deep into developing players. Hopefully with the new emphasis on development Quin will actually teach and coach his young players allowing them to play through some mistakes. If he sees then getting overwhelmed then he will make adjustments accordingly but in a teaching way instead of a punishment way.

I expect Exum to come off the bench but play between 20-25 minutes give a take a few minutes depending on his play. His progress will determine if he plays more or less which is the way it should be. Sitting him for no other reason except that he is young is a bunch of nonsense and can do more damage than letting him play. I think Dante is mentally mature beyond his years and I think he will be able to handle it for the most part. The biggest adjustment for young players are the number of games and the travel so there might be some nights where he has hit the wall and Quin will adjust accordingly. I fine with that but I want to see the kid play. You drafted him 5th so obviously you think he can play. So play him and let him take a few lumps it builds character.

I agree with pretty much all of this. Correct approach.


The part you described where Corbin would yank a young player right when they would make a mistake but leave a Veteran when they made the same ones created a lot of remote chucking moments for me. This inconsistency had to create a lot of frustration for he young guys.

 

[orangello]

I agree with pretty much all of this. Correct approach.


The part you described where Corbin would yank a young player right when they would make a mistake but leave a Veteran when they made the same ones created a lot of remote chucking moments for me. This inconsistency had to create a lot of frustration for he young guys.

I didn't chuck the remote but I would groan. My wife would come to check on me to see if I was OK.