Dante Exum vs Marcus Smart
- Thread starter mdalby
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MVP
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Never was fan of Kanter, was against drafting him way before the draft. And no Kanter does not have better stats than Rudy in general especially if you look at win shares and other advance stats.
MDAV28
Well-Known Member
Advanced stats put them much closer than they are in reality.
The point is that there's much more that goes into being a great player than putting up stats. Exum and Smart are more valuable than Payton, even if he does outscore them.
(Also if you want to include advanced stats, Exum scored more frequently and more efficiently than Payton. Had a better PER, TS%, FTr, TOV% & WS/48)
MVP
Well-Known Member
Bringing 14 game averages again? lol. Even then payton was better in reb, stls, ast, blk, pts and 3pts.
And how are they more valuable? By what means?
MVP
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https://www.basketball-reference.co...lfrid+Payton&player_id3=paytoel01&idx=players
Payton is much more complete player than both Smart and Exum - it is not even funny that you guys keep arguing about it. Better PER, better Ast%, better OWS, WS, better Reb%. Smart is slightly better at Stl%, DWS and WOR. Only real problem with Payton is his FT%, while Smart may have somewhat better defensive stats everything else favors Payton.
Payton is much more complete player than both Smart and Exum - it is not even funny that you guys keep arguing about it. Better PER, better Ast%, better OWS, WS, better Reb%. Smart is slightly better at Stl%, DWS and WOR. Only real problem with Payton is his FT%, while Smart may have somewhat better defensive stats everything else favors Payton.
MDAV28
Well-Known Member
"Kanter is much more complete player than Gobert - it is not even funny that you guys keep arguing about it. Better PER, better Ast%, better OWS, similar WS, better Reb%. Gobert is slightly better at Stl%, DWS and WOR. Only real problem with Kanter is his Block%, while Gobert may have somewhat better defensive stats everything else favors Kanter."
See how ridiculous this sounds? Welcome to the world of looking beyond the box scores.
MVP
Well-Known Member
It would sound ridiculous if you would have right stats... As it stands now Rudy has better PER, better def and total Reb%, better ASt%, better WS, better WORP. Only thing Kanter has on Rudy is better OWS. So no, I do not sound ridiculous.
https://www.basketball-reference.co...=Rudy+Gobert&player_id2=goberru01&idx=players
1 Rudy Gobert 2014 2018 325 9084 20.6 .638 .002 .726 12.9 28.0 20.5 6.7 1.2 6.4 16.8 15.4 20.0 18.5 38.5 .203 0.0 4.6 4.6 15.1
2 Enes Kanter 2012 2018 516 11309 20.3 .583 .024 .302 14.5 22.9 18.7 5.8 0.9 1.7 13.5 23.3 23.2 10.9 34.1 .145 0.0 -1.8 -1.7 0.8
MVP
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Why we should look at the season where Rudy missed 26 games? Career stats is what I care and that should favor Kanter as Rudy pretty much did not play any in first two years.
MVP
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LOL, you just did the same. You are comparing best Kanter season vs one of the worst Rudy seasons. Go back one more year and compare 2016-2017 stats if you want to compare single seasons.
MVP
Well-Known Member
better total AST, average AST, asts per 36min and AST% , total Reb, average Reb and REB per 36min and Reb% by a mile... how you can even argue that?? Seriously how is this even a question?
His numbers are inflated because of his role on a bad team, a tanking team. Exum has to play behind Rubio and Donovan Mitchell within a disciplined system. If Exum were dominating the ball in Phoenix and doing anything he wants, I have no doubt Exum's numbers would look much different. There's a reason the Jazz are paying Exum. There's a reason why the Celtics are paying Smart. And there's a reason why Payton is on his 3rd team on a one-year deal.
MVP
Well-Known Member
I can question what Suns are doing all day long. Leaving Doncic on the draft board and taking Ayton is insanity in my opinion as well.
MDAV28
Well-Known Member
You'd have a point if I pulled a random season (or lumped in irrelevant seasons as you have). If you can't understand the principle that the most current data in a set is the most relevant I can't help you.
I realize you're trying to save face here. But you're missing the point. Rudy won DPOY, got a large amount of votes for All-NBA, and STILL comes out behind Kanter according to how you're valuing your players.
You can't easily quantify the effect Gobert has on defense (and offense for that matter). Just as you can't easily quantify the defensive value Smart and Exum provide, or the value Exum provides of being able to break into the paint against most defenders. There's more than just box scores, even advanced box scores. While you're picking Payton for your roto-league, DL and the Jazz are playing real basketball and valuing more than just the box score.
Which if you look at anything, look at how Payton got traded for a second-round pick, and was valued by the best basketball minds at one-year / $2.7 million. While Smart and Exum are making 10-13 million on multi-year deals. That should really be all you need to know.
MVP
Well-Known Member
I am not looking at Paytons numbers on Suns. I am looking at his whole career. He only played for suns 20+games. Exum had starting role in rookie season, no Mitchell or Rubio and produced historically bad. I doubt Exum would had any better numbers with the same minutes in Orlando or Suns.
idestroyedthetoilet
Well-Known Member
PER is generally one of the best stats but it has a weakness in that it overinflates the value of inefficient bigs that shoot volume. Al Jefferson and Kanter are the best examples.
Outside of that it is one of the best indicators.
Outside of that it is one of the best indicators.
MVP
Well-Known Member
Players sometimes take less money in order to prove they are worth more in the future if situation is right. I have no doubts Payton's next contract will be better than Smart's or Exums. Playing in his hometown with A. Davis will have him averaging close to double double next season.