David Locke = massive troll?

[Hedda Gambler]

Fresh legs was just one problem. CJ, Hayward, and Millsap were completely ineffective in overtime. Every Millsap miss (7 of 9 shots) in overtime was clanked off of front rim, Hayward couldn't move towards the rim without stumbling or losing the ball, and CJ was CJ.

Hayward was pretty darn good in OT even though he missed some shots. He was the player that took it too them and he hit a lot of FTs, He also had a magnificent pass to Big Al who should have won the game for us so Gordon did well with his time. Asfor the others, there were both good and bad moments. I agree that some subs could and most likely should have been made, but the NBA is a strange breed indeed. Many teams don`t play the zone simply beacuse the players don`t want to play it. It sounds strange and even childish to outsiders, but the NBA is a star-driven league and their influence over the teams is probably much bigger than in other sports. I`m not saying that Ty did the right thing, but that he did the conventional thing. Maybe he will learn from this, but what really concerns me is that our announcers never even mentioned the possibility of substituting in OT. I wanted Favors out there to give some pain to Atlanta, but when people who are with the team on a daily basis don`t even entertain the idea of subbing, it says a lot about the conventional thinking in the NBA.

In general, Locke has said that we are the team in the league with the fewest games with players getting 40+ minutes a game. It is not like Ty is playing our starters tired on a regular basis and Big Al is actually the man with the fewest minutes on average on Hollinger`s top ten PER-rating. Ty is doing a good job with this team and with player development, and hopefully he learns something from last nights game and lets Favors, Burks and Kanter destroy the Nets tonight.

 

[Hedda Gambler]

Double post

 

[Gameface]

I got out of work and was in my car by about 6:20, with just a few possessions left in regulation. Locke mentioned, I think towards the end of the first overtime, that Atlanta seemed out of gas, that both teams were running low on energy and that the first coach to put in an energy line-up would win the game. Then he talked about how much deeper the Jazz were than Atlanta. Seems like in the moment he was all for making substitutions to bring in the young, fresh legs to finish off the other team.

Trying to explain something doesn't always mean you agree with it.

 

[sahlensguy]

To be fair to Locke, he did call for Evans to be subbed in, in the 3rd OT.

I like Locke and Booner BTW. You could hear Locke wanting to strangle CJ by the end.

 

[Grandpa Jazz]

If there is an example of teams in OT making a bunch of subs for the sake of fresh legs please fill me in.

I believe you are being disingenuous here. While it is obvious to all that coaches in the NBA dislike subbing in OT, it is not even sensible to apply that to 4 OT game. Never has Ty Corbin left players in a game for 25-30 minute
stretches. Why does it make any sense to do so in this situation? When players from both sides are stumbling around and have trouble getting the ball to the rim when shooting. Then it just seems sensible to put a less tired player on
the floor, (unless you do not have any faith in that player being equal to the challenge). If that is sensible then it is entirely sensible to pick your five and play them 48 minutes every night.

 

[The Thriller]

According to David Locke, the Jazz have never made a mistake...

And AK47 is better than Lebron.

And yes, a few years ago he came out with stats to prove it. That was when Locke lost all credibility for me. I haven't listened to more than 3 minutes of 1320 since.

They're nothing more than crappy car salesmen on the radio towing the company line.

 

[fishonjazz]

I'd like to know how it is a league wide practice to keep the closers in the game through OT yet Corbin should be fired and now Locke is a troll for trying to explain this.

I don't recall seeing OT games where teams subbed much at all unless there was an obvious mismatch like Gordon on Heinrich. If there is an example of teams in OT making a bunch of subs for the sake of fresh legs please fill me in.

So Brown Notes, I have a question for you. How many coaches currently coaching in the NBA have coached a 4 overtime game?

Probably not very many. So the arguement that this is what all the other coaches do in this situation doesn't stand up too well.

Also the arguement of "thats what everyone always does" is dumb anyway. Like in football how everyone plays prevent defense when they are leading at the end of the game even if thier normal defense has been working all game long. Then the other team scores in like 2 minutes or less because of that prevent defense. "But that is what all the coaches do" is a crappy arguement.

Burks and Favors should have played more plain and simple..... like usual.

 

[Brown Notes]

So Brown Notes, I have a question for you. How many coaches currently coaching in the NBA have coached a 4 overtime game?

Probably not very many. So the arguement that this is what all the other coaches do in this situation doesn't stand up too well.

Also the arguement of "thats what everyone always does" is dumb anyway. Like in football how everyone plays prevent defense when they are leading at the end of the game even if thier normal defense has been working all game long. Then the other team scores in like 2 minutes or less because of that prevent defense. "But that is what all the coaches do" is a crappy arguement.

Burks and Favors should have played more plain and simple..... like usual.

Well the prevailing attitude seems to be that Corbin is some kind of basketball retard and if they just replaced him this couldn't happen. My point is that if you replace the coaching staff it is very likely you get the same result in an OT situation. So in essence the collective BB gurus here would simply trade retards.

I am pretty sure whoever coaches put in to close the game, close the game with very few exceptions. You could argue that Burks or Favors should be closers but that's not really what we are talking about. Nobody subs for tired legs in OT. I'm sure there is a poster somewhere that is motivated and young enough to change the NBA and get into coaching, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

 

[Harambe]

Isn't a troll someone against the Jazz but rooting for them?

Locke roots for them and supports the stupid Jazz decisions no matter how dumb.
That's a goblin.

Locke's a goblin.

Trolling: Saying or doing something incite emotional response. This can be telling the truth or a lie, going with or against.

Anyone who writes for a living is a professional troll, to one degree or another.

 

[fishonjazz]

Well the prevailing attitude seems to be that Corbin is some kind of basketball retard and if they just replaced him this couldn't happen. My point is that if you replace the coaching staff it is very likely you get the same result in an OT situation. So in essence the collective BB gurus here would simply trade retards.

I am pretty sure whoever coaches put in to close the game, close the game with very few exceptions. You could argue that Burks or Favors should be closers but that's not really what we are talking about. Nobody subs for tired legs in OT. I'm sure there is a poster somewhere that is motivated and young enough to change the NBA and get into coaching, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Good answer.... You may be right, and maybe it would have worked to sub guys in, but maybe not. The people saying that there should have been subs made dont know for sure if it would have worked.
One thing i find strange is that burks has been our closer during alot of the current winning streak, not CJ. I think that is the criticism i would have of corbin this game.
Why change what has been working during the winning streak. If burks is your closer against L.A., sacrament, etc then why not against atlanta.... especially since CJ usually struggles on the road.
Maybe corbin thinks the situation was too "big" for a rookie, but i see loads of confidence coming from burks and i think he could have handled it.

 

[BabyPeterzz]

They're nothing more crappy than hyperbole.

Agreed.

 

[green]

Good answer.... You may be right, and maybe it would have worked to sub guys in, but maybe not. The people saying that there should have been subs made dont know for sure if it would have worked.
One thing i find strange is that burks has been our closer during alot of the current winning streak, not CJ. I think that is the criticism i would have of corbin this game.
Why change what has been working during the winning streak. If burks is your closer against L.A., sacrament, etc then why not against atlanta.... especially since CJ usually struggles on the road.
Maybe corbin thinks the situation was too "big" for a rookie, but i see loads of confidence coming from burks and i think he could have handled it.

I agree with this post. I don't agree with leaving Millsap and Al in the game, but I get it. What I don't get, and what is inexcusable is that Burks has had more big 4th quarter moments in the past week than CJ has had in the past six, seven years. Hell, even in the Sacramento game, the Jazz gave up a lead, CJ was awful, Burks came in and won the game for us. Why was Burks not put in this game? Why was CJ left in this game? It makes no sense whatsoever.

KOC has to get rid of Al and let CJ walk before next season. Corbin just can't help himself.

 

[Brown Notes]

Good answer.... You may be right, and maybe it would have worked to sub guys in, but maybe not. The people saying that there should have been subs made dont know for sure if it would have worked.
One thing i find strange is that burks has been our closer during alot of the current winning streak, not CJ. I think that is the criticism i would have of corbin this game.
Why change what has been working during the winning streak. If burks is your closer against L.A., sacrament, etc then why not against atlanta.... especially since CJ usually struggles on the road.
Maybe corbin thinks the situation was too "big" for a rookie, but i see loads of confidence coming from burks and i think he could have handled it.

This will be an unpopular answer. And the answer is, CJ earned it. He simply was playing a better game than Burks was. After the starters seemingly blew the game in the first half they came out in the 3rd and completely blew the Hawks away. Joe Johnson only made one basket in the 2nd half. CJ was doing it on both ends of the floor and continued that almost all the way to the end. People are sick of CJ and he has given a lot of good reason for that over the years but this really was a tremendous game for him, even with missing the last 2 rim shots to tie. He showed a lot of heart.

IMO a better case could be made for Favors, he was playing really hard and was making his FTs which IMO is his closing weakness. But like Locke said, taking out either big would be pulling either your #1 or #2 option on O. Jefferson is by far the most reliable player on the team as far as creating points late in the clock and nobody is as clutch as Sap. That would be a tough call. As it turned out nobody could score in the 1st OT anyways so who knows.

I sure don't think a change is as obvious as a lot of posters here do. It's likely Favors could end up starting again sometime soon but Al/Sap are going to continue to close. I don't think Burks will start but very well could take a closing role for the playoffs.

JMHTheory.

 

[fishonjazz]

Just one more thing i would like to add reguarding Corbin not subbing because other coaches dont sub in OT.

I think that each team and each game is different so corbin should not follow what any other coach should do. This team/season/game is much different from others
Most teams lose alot of talent/skill when they sub thier bench in and so probably dont sub because they worry about not being able to compete with thier bench and that they might lose the lead. Our team doesn't lose much when the bench comes in so it is less risky as far as losing the lead. The bench could keep us in the game or even increase the lead and you could bring the starters back in.

Also this is a lockout condensed season. In a normal season coaches probably are reluctant to sub in OT, but in this lockout shortened season i think maybe different strategy should be employed.

Just my thoughts.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Locke is my favorite company man. He's really bright, he loves the game, he makes good points, but it's obvious he's a cheerleader beyond even his own natural positive way of looking at things. That's to be expected and I don't blame him.

 

[gregbroncs]

Locke doesn't toe the Jazzfanz line?

I'm shocked and shagrinned!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2EirLJqghA

Nope Locke tows the Jazz management line. It's really the only reason he has a job at all. If a single time he start questioning them he will probably be fired. He's a terrible play by play guy and a terrible sports reporter. Without the kissing of asses how is he to keep his job?

 

[illyasova]

He is just not objective as he is supposed to be. I am writing some messages from tweeter after matches about rotations, Corbin etc., he always defends them by saying the play off chance, patience and all. I have never witnessed that he made some critics about Corbin or KOC. Still he is good at making comments about prospects.

 

[freakazoid]

Nobody subs for tired legs in OT.

Yeah, again, we're not just talking about OT. We're talking about 4 OTs. You keep making this argument as if the rules for one OT remain the same, no matter how many OTs are played.

I generally support Corbin, and I agree with your opinions for the most part, when it comes to the armchair coaches on this board. No matter what Corbin does, he's going to be 2nd guessed and nitpicked by those with hindsight. Right now Utah has won 7 of their last 8, but because we're not 8 of 8, Corbin should be fired. Obviously, some people think we are a great team who is being held back by a bad coach. I don't agree with that at all, but I did think it was pretty obvious last night by the 3rd OT that our guys were exhausted. I personally think Ty is doing just fine overall, but I also think certain complaints about his coaching are legitimate. This was one of them.

 

[craig2112]

Nope Locke tows the Jazz management line. It's really the only reason he has a job at all. If a single time he start questioning them he will probably be fired. He's a terrible play by play guy and a terrible sports reporter. Without the kissing of asses how is he to keep his job?

Ok, I'm not a huge Locke fan. I think he is a terrible play by play guy, and I disagree with him a lot. But he is quite knowlegable. He spends a lot of time with the team, and spent a lot of time with the Sonics in Seattle. He knows what he is talking about.

And, he actually is the guy who started KFAN. He ran it. He left at one point to go to Seattle. After a few years in Seattle, he returned.
Before KFAN, he was a commentator on 570AM. He became very popular and decided that he could start his own station and make it successful. He did just that. And he was in his mid-20s at the time.

 

[Brown Notes]

Yeah, again, we're not just talking about OT. We're talking about 4 OTs. You keep making this argument as if the rules for one OT remain the same, no matter how many OTs are played.

I generally support Corbin, and I agree with your opinions for the most part, when it comes to the armchair coaches on this board. No matter what Corbin does, he's going to be 2nd guessed and nitpicked by those with hindsight. Right now Utah has won 7 of their last 8, but because we're not 8 of 8, Corbin should be fired. Obviously, some people think we are a great team who is being held back by a bad coach. I don't agree with that at all, but I did think it was pretty obvious last night by the 3rd OT that our guys were exhausted. I personally think Ty is doing just fine overall, but I also think certain complaints about his coaching are legitimate. This was one of them.

Really just against the wave of mega hate. No problem with second guessing the man. Obviously depth is a huge strength in Utah. I wouldn't be making so many posts in here if the coach bashing wasn't so out of control.

Hindsight goes both ways. Utah had 4 pretty good chances to make a shot and win the game. There is no guarantee whatsoever that subbing would have provided more. To me it's worth noting that Burks and Favors combined for very little between them when they were in, and CJ was able to be in position to save the day during that same period.

FTR I personally would have Burks and Favors starting over Sap and whoever, close with Burks and Sap, and try a little harder to get more minutes to your sig, have AJ come in for the finish just under 5:00 if possible.