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David Locke - Utah Jazz are NOT tanking

fishonjazz said:
Huh? I simply said that sometimes when one tries to achieve a specific goal or result, it doesn't work out. Guilty, innocent. I dont know what the hell is going on there lol. I will let you be judge and jury on that stuff. I will continue to look at the moves made and judge those moves. I saw a really good team with a really good coach throw it all away for not much of anything. Then that not much of anything turned into something unexpected. Then when the unexpected happened I saw a team get rid of a number of contributing players for garbage. Then the team beat a few mediocre teams and lost to the worst team in the league.

I dont see an innocent or guilty team in all that. I see a management staff that made moves to intentionally be bad/get worse. Didn't work out like they thought it would. Which could be a very good thing. I love that we have a superstar already. I dont think we intended to have one at this point though. I think the wind blew and a superstar happened.

Its been a fun season. An unexpected one, but fun nonetheless. I aint mad. Quite the opposite. Im glad the tank isn't working as that means a quicker rebuild.

Donovan trade. Tank. Rudy trade. Tank. Bogey trade. Tank. conley trade. Tank. Royce trade. Tank. Beverly trade. Iffy. All these trades happened to get worse/be bad imo. Then the wind blew in unexpectedly and the wins piles up unintentionally. Stuff like that happens in life sometimes.
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Awesome post bro. Wish i could rep.
 
fishonjazz said:
Donovan trade. Tank. Rudy trade. Tank. Bogey trade. Tank. conley trade. Tank. Royce trade. Tank. Beverly trade. Iffy. All these trades happened to get worse/be bad imo. Then the wind blew in unexpectedly and the wins piles up unintentionally. Stuff like that happens in life sometimes.
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This was cool. Haha.. and so true.
 
ONE LOVE said:
Yeah but who is he though? He’s the radio play by play right? This YouTube thing is his side gig. Like someone else had mentioned in this thread the Jazz aren’t paying him to defend the Org.

The Jazz isn’t paying him to come on YouTube to say anything regarding the tank. He could have talked about a lot of other things. Yet he chooses to talk down to the fan base as if we don’t know what’s going on and slated Andy in the process.

I listen to the Hoop collective podcast by Brian Windhorst and co. quite a bit and at least they are honest about what’s going on a round the league without having an agenda.

But this isn’t the case with Locke right now.
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The hoop collective are not employees of the team lol. It doesn’t matter if it’s on his podcast. He’s not going to tell people that the team doesn’t care about winning. That directly impacts his job with the Jazz.
 
KqWIN said:
The hoop collective are not employees of the team lol. It doesn’t matter if it’s on his podcast. He’s not going to tell people that the team doesn’t care about winning. That directly impacts his job with the Jazz.
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Yes I get that, again I go back to what I said, which is that he could have avoided saying anything.

But he wanted to respond to Andy Larson's article (I'm guessing).

To me to say that we aren't tanking because we needed to see what Dok can do amidst the playoffs is disingenuous.

Every man and his dog knows there isn't even a glimmer of hope that Dok is an NBA player.
 
ONE LOVE said:
Again you haven't answered the question.. so I'll wait..
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Dude this strategy is childish. Never answering my question but demanding me to answer a series of questions you try to forcefully pinpoint to one attribute in a complex matter.

Also you praising others who fight the same battle by highlighting their posts by replying is hilariously agenda-driven.
 
HermanG said:
Dude this strategy is childish. Never answering my question but demanding me to answer a series of questions you try to forcefully pinpoint to one attribute in a complex matter.

Also you praising others who fight the same battle by highlighting their posts by replying is hilariously agenda-driven.
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Still waiting..
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Yup unless the FO trades EVERYONE and the medical staff declares EVERYONE ineligible for a hangnail and the equipment managers accidentally forget sneakers and the guys have to play in socks... then its obvious... no tank.
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You are so out of arguments you resort to exaggaration. Show me more than your 1 piece of evidence from past 5 weeks. Doesnt need to be EVERYTHING... just ANYTHING.
 
KqWIN said:
The hoop collective are not employees of the team lol. It doesn’t matter if it’s on his podcast. He’s not going to tell people that the team doesn’t care about winning. That directly impacts his job with the Jazz.
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Its what he should do. i don't fault him for it at all... I also wouldn't point to him as the oracle of truth so will take what he says with a grain of salt.

I mean its always Locke telling us a trade isn't about money... when it clearly is... or talking about the virtues of selling worthless second round picks to have capital to invest in the program. Everyone just has to have their eyes open and judge for themselves.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
We are 4-4 and our net rating is -16. Its a small sample that is swung by winning an OT game by 1 point. Just wait...
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I personally wouldnt count the games before the deadline because of the mental impact it had, but 4-4 is still .500
Handlogten's Heros said:
Not gonna look this up... significant is a subjective term anyway

We could have always done this... nothing was stopping this at all. Its irrelevant.
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Here is your first mistake. Sitting those 3 guys destroys their value. Its not irrelevant.
Handlogten's Heros said:
This is not true... we are in the 12th spot and were in the 13th spot the night of the trade.
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Im talking games ahead.
Handlogten's Heros said:
Yes what was Danny supposed to say "we tanking this ****... Bring us Victor!!!!

Again... what is he supposed to say? This reminds me of when my wife starts talking to the shady salesman at the fair and says "the salesman says the hologram on this bracelet will reduce inflammation and help with flexibility".

Another key anti-tanker argument I keep brining up much to your consternation... but yet you keep bringing up that we didn't trade everyone. You don't have to trade everyone. We might want these guys beyond a year.

And again... see above.

He wanted to go back to Europe and we have JTA, Udoka, Tech.... he has no future in the NBA. We did him a solid.

I judge actions... you can tell me you had nothing to do with the disappearance of your wife... but if the insurance policy changed the week before she disappeared and you have her cell phone and were the person last seen with her and your search history shows a search of "where to hide a dead body".... I'm going to go ahead and issue a verdict.
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This last part is where you mess up. You dont have all that evidence. You have 1 piece of clothing that could be there for other valid reasons as well.
 
HermanG said:
You are so out of arguments you resort to exaggaration. Show me more than your 1 piece of evidence from past 5 weeks. Doesnt need to be EVERYTHING... just ANYTHING.
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I'm not out of arguments... the arguments are exactly the same... we traded 3 guys that were a big part of our rotation and one other that would be in the rotation. That is exhibit 1, 2, 3, and 4. You will fire back with but but but... they didn't trade JC and KO too! or they are now giving 5 more minutes to Kessler.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I'm not out of arguments... the arguments are exactly the same... we traded 3 guys that were a big part of our rotation and one other that would be in the rotation. That is exhibit 1, 2, 3, and 4. You will fire back with but but but... they didn't trade JC and KO too! or they are now giving 5 more minutes to Kessler.
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Well I had more evidence. Plus you are the one making accusations. You have the burden of proof.

If tanking was the point, we didnt do it well. What does that tell about the competence of our FO?
 
HermanG said:
I personally wouldnt count the games before the deadline because of the mental impact it had, but 4-4 is still .500
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what... I simply counted the night Mike got traded... cuz that is what should count...
HermanG said:
Here is your first mistake. Sitting those 3 guys destroys their value. Its not irrelevant.
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you can play Lauri and Kessler more without destroying the other guys value lol. You can't play THT, Tech, JTA, Udoka though... and that is what the trade allowed.
HermanG said:
Im talking games ahead.
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Why does that matter... draft position matters. You can be 10 games above the 3rd worst team and still have the 4th best odds. That is how the system works. We are still very much in play for the 8th/9th spot.
HermanG said:
This last part is where you mess up. You dont have all that evidence. You have 1 piece of clothing that could be there for other valid reasons as well.
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I have more than enough evidence. I'm not gonna look at a blood spattered shirt and say "who knows what this could be... he may have been slaughtering a cow which is a totally innocent behavior... so unless I have conclusive video evidence then I can't convict".

Its not hard... it really isn't. If it doesn't work then it doesn't work but the intention is so clear.
 
HermanG said:
Show me any semi-official definition with the source.
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ONE LOVE said:
Ok why don't we use your definition for Tanking you used yesterday. What was it again?
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How about this one?

Tanking (sports) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Tanking in sports refers to the practice of intentionally fielding non-competitive teams to take advantage of league rules that benefit losing teams.
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Teams that decide to start tanking often do so by trading away star players in order to reduce payroll and bring in younger prospects.
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Sounds like exactly what we did. Like, spot on. It backfired a bit when one of our young prospects blossomed into a star player in a manner beyond our control, with a nod to @fishonjazz 's leaf raking analogy. Otherwise this is exactly what we did. We had 3 all-stars, whom we have now traded away entirely for young prospects and draft compensation, with the monkey wrench of one of those prospect developing himself into a star player, so not as intended, at least not this early.
 
HermanG said:
Well I had more evidence. Plus you are the one making accusations. You have the burden of proof.

If tanking was the point, we didnt do it well. What does that tell about the competence of our FO?
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I dissected it point by point but sure. This isn't a court room so no one has the "burden of proof". This is not innocent until proven guilty. Jebus.

GMs try to win a title but when it doesn't work did they do a bad job and are they incompetent? Also you are declaring the procedure a failure and the docs have just barely inserted the knife. Talk to me in 10 games.
 
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