Deal with Iran = good. Better relations with Cuba = good. Why do Republicans hate the world?

[Gameface]

https://www.cnn.com/2015/09/20/politics/chris-christie-pope-francis-cuba/index.html

Washington (CNN)Chris Christie is Catholic, but he's breaking with Pope Francis over whether to deepen U.S. diplomatic ties with Cuba."I just think the Pope is wrong," the New Jersey governor and Republican presidential candidate said Sunday in an interview with CNN's Jake Tapper on "State of the Union."
"The fact is that his infallibility is on religious matters, not on political ones," Christie said.
He blasted President Barack Obama for establishing closer ties with a country that has granted political asylum in the 1970s to Joanne Chesimard, the convicted killer of a New Jersey state trooper.

I love that things are opening up. This is going to save the lives of women and children in those countries who suffer under our embargoes and sanctions.

 

[moevillini]

Deal with Iran = good. Better relations with Cuba = good. Why do Republicans ...

The Pope is infallible?

but I agree otherwise (with what Gameface said, not Chis Christie!)

 

[Gameface]

I have long been of the opinion that sanctions and embargoes are bad. They don't hurt the people who control the resources in that nation, they hurt the people who are the most powerless and least influential. So, the poor, the women and the children. The goal of sanctions is to basically starve enough of the people in the country so that it destabilizes the government. I think anyone with any sense of honor or decency would prefer to use military force against the people in charge before they'd starve that nation's women and children in the hope that the people in charge will give enough of a **** to bend to our will because of it. I'd say it doesn't have a good track record.

Better than either option (sanctions or military action) is to engage them. To sway the people with our massive (I'm not being sarcastic, nor hyperbolic) cultural influence. To show the world that they can make their own decisions, even if we don't like them.

The U.S. needs to grow the **** up and let the world outside our boarders determine their own destiny.

 

[Siro]

Better than either option (sanctions or military action) is to engage them. To sway the people with our massive (I'm not being sarcastic, nor hyperbolic) cultural influence. To show the world that they can make their own decisions, even if we don't like them.

The West, with its power games and military aggression (specially the U.S.) undermine the greatest and most successful civilization the world has ever known. The economic and cultural power of the United States profoundly affects the lives of nearly everyone on Earth. In many ways, everyone wants to be like the West. The ideals that made Western civilization so successful; free thought and enterprise, human rights, secularism, and objectivism, have incredible global appeal. And yet, by taking a shortsighted and hypocritical path of immediate self-interest, the U.S. sets itself as an easy target for those who want to discredit it.

I'm not surprised that if anyone gets it, it's you.

 

[Gameface]

So why are Republican candidates tripping over each other to denounce the deal with Iran, and even more shocking to me, to criticise better relations with Cuba?

Cuba to me is a real tragedy. There's no reason why Cuba shouldn't be one of the most well off countries in the Caribbean. Now, part of that is their fault for going down the communist path, but a big part of it is that we tried to suffocate them...for for over 50 years. Yet they are still breathing.

I am very curious, honestly, if communism wouldn't have worked out okay for them, some form of it anyway, had we just left them alone. Let's say the U.S. says we don't really approve of their economic system but we'll keep free and fair trade open so long as they engage with us in a free and fair way? What then? How much better would the standard of life have been for the average (non-political) Cuban? For the kids? For the poor?

Humans are humans. We all basically want the same things. That's really the single most valuable thing I learned from my time in the Navy and going overseas. This planet is filled with people just like me, just like my son, just like my wife. We're all part of the same team but we don't realize it yet. I don't think it's okay to starve anyone to death via sanctions. There is no country made up of evil people. Not one. There is no nation of "bad guys" out there. Just average folks who want to live in peace and provide for their family. That's the scary world we live in. People looking to put dinner on the table. **** it, let's kill 'em all.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Popcorn.

I hope someone, other than me, can lay this out for you.

 

[Stoked]

Yeah the Cuba thing is baffling. You want Castro gone? Fine whatever. Do it by giving the Cubans a taste of a better life. The embargo is stupid.

 

[babe]

Yeah the Cuba thing is baffling. You want Castro gone? Fine whatever. Do it by giving the Cubans a taste of a better life. The embargo is stupid.

I don't know anything about all this. That said, I'm set to write a book.

According to one Iranian friend, the Iranian government is so bad he wants the US to invade, or at least supply Iranian revolutionaries who will bring Western values back to the homeland, and render the Islamist/Statist set powerless by establishing a constitutional republic sort of government of Iranian design, albeit fashioned by the millions of Iranian refugees who've lived here for forty years.

According to another Iranian friend, we should just join up with the Iranian Islamists and establish a countervaiiling friendly power to stand in the gap when things go south with Russia or China or India.

the first friend had a farm that was a great place to grow all kinds of stuff including pictacios, on the seashore of some inland sea on the Russian border. The second friend is a billionaire, a self-made American billionaire, who just hates to see people bombed to smithereens.

My heart goes out to the Iranian girl who just grabbed me and planted a kiss on me the moment she got her new puppy. I just don't see the sense of the fight.

 

[Gameface]

Popcorn.

I hope someone, other than me, can lay this out for you.

You say that like I'm not familiar with the counter argument. Obviously I haven't presented it here, but I know what it is. Let's just say... I'm not impressed. But if you think someone can "lay it out" in a way that will make me revel in the deaths of innocent humans because 'merica, I say let them go for it.

But on another note, we were not containing Iran's nuclear weapon program via sanctions. As I said above, if we want to take the hard line then invade Iran and kill the people in charge who are attempting to build a nuclear weapon. Destroy their nuke building facilities.

But see, I have a problem with that. We regular old U.S. citizens can be armed with firearms because it is our inalienable right to defend ourselves. Many abuse that right and use weapons to commit crimes and to harm innocent people. Yet our right as individuals remains.

Iran has a right as a nation to defend itself the same way we do. They are not inferior to us. We, citizens of the U.S., kill thousands and millions for our own interests through our diplomacy, our military and our industry. Do we have that right? We sure as hell didn't ask for anyone's approval.

So what if Iran wants nukes? We have nukes. Are we ready to give them up?

Are they children? Are we their parents? Do we need to send them to bed without supper?

The Iranian government is made up of religious idiots, much like the majority of the U.S.. Are their stupid religious beliefs less valid than the stupidity that is Christianity? Do they deserve to starve so that Christians can prosper?

Do me a favor, Dr. Jones, why don't you step up to the plate and lay it out for me so that I can shed my ignorance? I need a laugh.

 

[Dr. Jones]

You say that like I'm not familiar with the counter argument. Obviously I haven't presented it here, but I know what it is. Let's just say... I'm not impressed. But if you think someone can "lay it out" in a way that will make me revel in the deaths of innocent humans because 'merica, I say let them go for it.

But on another note, we were not containing Iran's nuclear weapon program via sanctions. As I said above, if we want to take the hard line then invade Iran and kill the people in charge who are attempting to build a nuclear weapon. Destroy their nuke building facilities.

But see, I have a problem with that. We regular old U.S. citizens can be armed with firearms because it is our inalienable right to defend ourselves. Many abuse that right and use weapons to commit crimes and to harm innocent people. Yet our right as individuals remains.

Iran has a right as a nation to defend itself the same way we do. They are not inferior to us. We, citizens of the U.S., kill thousands and millions for our own interests through our diplomacy, our military and our industry. Do we have that right? We sure as hell didn't ask for anyone's approval.

So what if Iran wants nukes? We have nukes. Are we ready to give them up?

Are they children? Are we their parents? Do we need to send them to bed without supper?

The Iranian government is made up of religious idiots, much like the majority of the U.S.. Are their stupid religious beliefs less valid than the stupidity that is Christianity? Do they deserve to starve so that Christians can prosper?

Do me a favor, Dr. Jones, why don't you step up to the plate and lay it out for me so that I can shed my ignorance? I need a laugh.

For now, as a placeholder, I will say I am greatly disappointed by your delivery (to me, personally). I am sure you will say it's all in defense, whatever.
Soon, maybe, I will engage you more definitely, albeit somewhat sadly, because I view it all, at this point, as less less-than intellectual debate, but more of some weird personal issue. And I considered you a real friend.

Iran? ****'m.

 

[Gameface]

For now, as a placeholder, I will say I am greatly disappointed by your delivery (to me, personally). I am sure you will say it's all in defense, whatever.
Soon, maybe, I will engage you more definitely, albeit somewhat sadly, because I view it all, at this point, as less less-than intellectual debate, but more of some weird personal issue. And I considered you a real friend.

Iran? ****'m.

You condescend me and call me a friend? Are all your friends subservient to you and your ego? I don't roll that way.

 

[Gameface]

If what makes you sad is my view on religion, then be sad. I have a very low opinion of religion, no matter what stripe. I usually hold my tongue, but I won't back down from how I feel if anyone wants to know.

Especially when I listen to one religious person talking about the invalidity of someone else's religious beliefs.

 

[Dr. Jones]

You condescend me and call me a friend? Are all your friends subservient to you and your ego? I don't roll that way.

Have a nice night, GF.
I mean that.

 

[Gameface]

Have a nice night, GF.
I mean that.

Go to bed frankin you're drunk?

Enjoy your night as well...

 

[Dr. Jones]

If what makes you sad is my view on religion, then be sad. I have a very low opinion of religion, no matter what stripe. I usually hold my tongue, but I won't back down from how I feel if anyone wants to know.

Especially when I listen to one religious person talking about the invalidity of someone else's religious beliefs.

Look, I care about you. I really do. But this ******** you're projecting on me is .. On you.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Where the **** did religion come into this?
Damn dude.

 

[Gameface]

Look, I care about you. I really do. But this ******** you're projecting on me is .. On you.

Try actually backing up your point. Why is it bad to engage Iran and lift sanctions? Why are sanctions good or effective or worth our time? You say maybe someone else (I suppose who doesn't have as important **** to do as you do) explain it to me?

You care about me? That's funny.

 

[Gameface]

Where the **** did religion come into this?
Damn dude.

Probably in one of my posts you responded to. Maybe TLDR?

 

[RJF]

I don't understand opposition to Cuba but Iran. Jesus dude, you want nuclear weapon capabilities in the hands of radicals in the most unstable region on earth? Really!!

 

[Dr. Jones]

Try actually backing up your point. Why is it bad to engage Iran and lift sanctions? Why are sanctions good or effective or worth our time? You say maybe someone else (I suppose who doesn't have as important **** to do as you do) explain it to me?

You care about me? That's funny.

Damn, bro.