Game Thread Dec 10, 2022 07:00PM MT: Jazz at Nuggets

[fishonjazz]

Man, KO has been playing his *** off.

Yep. And the statement remains true that KO is pretty incapable of getting stops at the rim. Its just not his game.


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[fishonjazz]

Why did THT take that 3??? Horrible shot early in the shot clock.

Tank shot. He took 7 of them. I think he thinks he is a good shooter.


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[fishonjazz]

Sloan would be playing the Hell out of Kessler.

Especially last night. Short handed playing against a huge ************* and KO and Vando in foul trouble and Walker playing well. I just cant understand how Hardy doesnt see what most of us see.

Maybe the sloan comment was comparing their rigidity or something. Though i dont see hardy as being very rigid with most players. Just Kessler.

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[fishonjazz]

Kind of a weird thing to say about a game the Jazz had no business being in in the first place.

Agreed. Oddly enough it still rings a bit true.


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[fishonjazz]

Eh, Sloan played rookie Deron Williams a ridiculously low amount of minutes compared to what he should have.

This. Though maybe it was just because we were so talented at the position at the time with keith mccleod and milt palacio. Had put D-will third string when you have that much talent.


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[fishonjazz]

Denver has some serious problems. They just played a team at home, on a back to back who was out their top 4 players and another role player.
That said who'd you trade for once they figure out that team is junk?

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Ya i feel like the jazz are currently better than both the nuggets and twolves. Neither of those teams are very scary.


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[fishonjazz]

I think it might have been a bad decision not to pick up his option.

He is pretty tragic as a scorer on all levels, but he has at least has the defensive talent and passing/handling ability to be interesting.

I posed the question the other day if there are any really good guards in the nba today who cant shoot (i dont watch other teams much). Like a prime rajon rondo type. Are there?


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[HeatCheck]

Juzang injured his wrist in a G league game and is going to be out for awhile. He's a really good shooter that needs a bit more polish.
Agbaji and Bolmaro both looked bad a few nights ago for the Stars but it's good to see Ochai getting his feet wet with some NBA minutes.

Didn't get to watch any of last night's game except for a few highlights. I will say that even if JC played I still get the feeling this would've still ended as a competitive loss for the Jazz. Take that as you will.

Denver is going to struggle until they figure out the Jamal Murray conundrum. Jokic is obviously a MVP but this is a wing/guard league and Murray is obviously not the same player after the injuries. Apparently there are also internal issues in their lockerroom.

 

[fishonjazz]

You just love talkng out of your butt don't you. When trying to develop guys free minutes are definitely good minutes because they need to play through growing pains. Also unless you are blind you can see that we have a crazy minutes crunch when healthy and there aren't any minutes for most of the youngsters. Two of Conley, Clarkson and Beasley have to go if we are going to find consistent minutes for younger guys. It is that simple.

I kind of agree with you but mostly agree with cy. Lots of dudes have gotten opportunities this season but we are clearly trying to win. I know you are hardcore team tank so of course you dont like what hardy is doing. He isnt going to bench conley, clarkson, or KO though. Almost no coach in the league would. The biggest issue I have with rotations by far is that Gay should get ZERO minutes when we are healthy. Hopefully that will be the case when we get healthy again.


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[HeatCheck]

I posed the question the other day if there are any really good guards in the nba today who cant shoot (i dont watch other teams much). Like a prime rajon rondo type. Are there?


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Can't really think of one offhand, tbh. Today the defensive wings such as Anunoby can shoot a little bit.
Even the bigs are required to shoot in today's NBA or you end up playing 4 on 5.
I guess Ben Simmons might be an outlier since he has great size and excels at every other aspect of the game but the Nets are still at a disadvantage offensively with him on the floor.

 

[fishonjazz]

It was only a low talent team by 99% of the worlds talent judgement. In reality it was a team loaded with solid players but lacked high end talent.

Fixed it for you. Pretty much everyone though we would suck really really bad. Maybe you didnt. If you didnt then you should be able to show me your vegas receipt of the huge bet you made that the jazz would win more than 23.5 games. Vegas thought we were the second worst team in the league. Vegas is good at what they do.

Hell the fact that you are a big time tank guys tells us that you think we were supposed to suck too.


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[fishonjazz]

Juzang injured his wrist in a G league game and is going to be out for awhile. He's a really good shooter that needs a bit more polish.
Agbaji and Bolmaro both looked bad a few nights ago for the Stars but it's good to see Ochai getting his feet wet with some NBA minutes.

Didn't get to watch any of last night's game except for a few highlights. I will say that even if JC played I still get the feeling this would've still ended as a competitive loss for the Jazz. Take that as you will.

Denver is going to struggle until they figure out the Jamal Murray conundrum. Jokic is obviously a MVP but this is a wing/guard league and Murray is obviously not the same player after the injuries. Apparently there are also internal issues in their lockerroom.

Agree with all of this including your comments about murray. He was awesome last night though. Couldnt miss. Whenever i check box scores he seems to play pretty bad against evryone else though.


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[fishonjazz]

Can't really think of one offhand, tbh. Today the defensive wings such as Anunoby can shoot a little bit.
Even the bigs are required to shoot in today's NBA or you end up playing 4 on 5.
I guess Ben Simmons might be an outlier since he has great size and excels at every other aspect of the game but the Nets are still at a disadvantage offensively with him on the floor.

Good point about simmons. He would have qualified a few years ago but i dont think he is really good today. Same with westbrick.

Kind of have to be able to shoot especially as a guard. If THT and Bolmaro never develop a shot then i dont think either of them will ever be good enough.
Sexton is right on the fringe of being a good enough shooter to be really good too. He is just good enough. He needs to really work on his three ball too though.


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[Moonlight Graham]

I posed the question the other day if there are any really good guards in the nba today who cant shoot (i dont watch other teams much). Like a prime rajon rondo type. Are there?

Marcus Smart is the best example I can come up with, but even he's a much better shooter than THT.

 

[fishonjazz]

Marcus Smart is the best example I can come up with, but even he's a much better shooter than THT.

Good call. He is right at 35% from three this year. 35% is right about the cuttoff point imo. Right on the fringe. Sexton is at 36%. I think as a guard in the nba today you need to be at least close to 35%. Especially since guys like sexton and smart are mostly taking only open threes.


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[HeatCheck]

Good point about simmons. He would have qualified a few years ago but i dont think he is really good today. Same with westbrick.

Kind of have to be able to shoot especially as a guard. If THT and Bolmaro never develop a shot then i dont think either of them will ever be good enough.
Sexton is right on the fringe of being a good enough shooter to be really good too. He is just good enough. He needs to really work on his three ball too though.


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Sexton has that extremely quick first step and is a blur in transition which is going to lead to easy points and high efficiency. Once he builds up speed in the paint will also put his body into defenders leading to FT attempts. I agree he probably needs to take more 3's. He made them at a pretty good clip when he was in Cleveland especially off the catch and shoot.

 

[HeatCheck]

Agree with all of this including your comments about murray. He was awesome last night though. Couldnt miss. Whenever i check box scores he seems to play pretty bad against evryone else though.


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Of course.
Seems like every night some opposing player (Murray, Ayton, etc, etc) will have a breakout game against the Jazz.

 

[homeytennis]

Our backups performed admirably. Few thoughts:
- We lost because our short-handed team couldnt close the game. We were inefficient from the field in the 4th and didnt get to the foul line.
- The refs also gave charity stripe to just 1 team towards the end. I was surprised no one here called it out.... but they definitely won from the FT line while we couldnt buy a shot foul.
- THT is likely on his way out of the guard rotation, barring additional injuries. He is a bad shooter and still takes stupid low% shots. Then towards the end of this game, where he needs to worry about KO, Beasley or NAW getting clutch shots, he instead took his own. He needs to sit.
- No one was able to contain Jokic, but then again thats not a Jazz problem. Kelly didnt look as bad as he usually does on D.
- While I love Kessler, I didnt enjoy the few minutes he spent on Jokic. Joker just went at him. That being said, he was better than Vando innthis game by far and should have had more minutes.

I don't get Hardy's loathing of Dok. He played Joker quite well a couple of times last year. Jensen was here and saw it. Is Dok that injured? Also when Embiid was torching us he is a matchup that could have slowed him down.

 

[HermanG]

I don't get Hardy's loathing of Dok. He played Joker quite well a couple of times last year. Jensen was here and saw it. Is Dok that injured? Also when Embiid was torching us he is a matchup that could have slowed him down.

He handicaps us offensively to 4 out and clogs the paint as he has absolutely no spacing ability. I think the system Hardy runs just cannot fit in a guy who doesnt have any flexibility in the offensive end.

 

[HeatCheck]

I don't get Hardy's loathing of Dok. He played Joker quite well a couple of times last year. Jensen was here and saw it. Is Dok that injured? Also when Embiid was torching us he is a matchup that could have slowed him down.

Apparently Hardy barely even talks to Dok. Honestly if it weren't for his guaranteed salary I doubt he would even be on the team this season.
Hardy's system relies on having ballhandlers/shooters at every position which might be a reason that even Kessler's minutes are limited sometimes.