Definition of JAZZ Basketball?

[Former Member]

dutchjazzer is an idiot. dont encourage him with a 'fair enough' bro. the difference between those teams and this one is they had 2 legit hall of fame players on the team. put 2 HOFers on this team and it's back to "JAZZ BASKETBALL" or whatever the hell you wanna call it. tl;dr: dutch is a dbag and HOFer make everything look better. also: dutch is a dbag please neg rape him.

I will do no such thing!

 

[Former Member]

The goal during the years with Stockton and Malone was to make money. Larry H. said it several times. He wanted the franchise to be in the black and was very proud that it had been right up until the time Stockton and Malone finished their careers. Belatedly, Larry H opened his pocketbook with the Deron-led teams to try to win a championship. Had he done so when John and Karl were in their primes, the Jazz may have won a couple of trophies.

Yep.. we squandered Stockton and Malone's prime, and then threw money at the wrong generation of Jazz players.

 

[HeavenHarris]

I'm making the same observations that Dutch is, and I disagree that all we need is two Hall of Fame players. Sloan ran a system and had an identity... love it or hate it he had one. Corbin doesn't his team lacks an identity... If we had two hall of famers somehow land on the Jazz, I'm convinced Corbin would just run isos... that is NOT "Jazz basketball"

However, I'm not convinced "Jazz Basketball" can exist in the modern NBA. Not unless you build a team with a defensive mind-set and play unselfish offensively. Nowadays players respond better to a Run and Gun chucka-iso-thon that has become the modern NBA... bleh. Even Sloan's later D-Will teams had lost that Defensive edge that Sloan was known for...

i wanted TyCo gone before most everybody here so i am no fan of his. I think TyCo does have an identity, it's just not one I/we particularly like. you said it urself, lots of isos for the bigs. that's an identity bro. opposing teams know that utah is gonna pound the ball in the front court and build from there. and you said it urself that u seem to miss sloan ball moreso than jazz ball whatever that means and that sloanball is impossible to fully implement nowadays. i agree with u on getting tyco outta here but dont get fooled by dutch he is just a BIG AL hater. hes trying to blame big al for everything and wishes big al would get injured and die. you sound reasonable and i semi agree with u but dont get fooled by dbagdutch

 

[DutchJazzer]

I'm making the same observations that Dutch is, and I disagree that all we need is two Hall of Fame players. Sloan ran a system and had an identity... love it or hate it he had one. Corbin doesn't his team lacks an identity... If we had two hall of famers somehow land on the Jazz, I'm convinced Corbin would just run isos... that is NOT "Jazz basketball"

However, I'm not convinced "Jazz Basketball" can exist in the modern NBA. Not unless you build a team with a defensive mind-set and play unselfish offensively. Nowadays players respond better to a Run and Gun chucka-iso-thon that has become the modern NBA... bleh. Even Sloan's later D-Will teams had lost that Defensive edge that Sloan was known for...

have You seen how favors runs pick and roll defense.
if i was a 6 foot guard i would think twice.
favors jumps out and bodychecks the guard on the 3 point line.
which makes gaurd thinks twice after that he runs back to his man.

what does it acomplish? you may ask?
it fricking breaks the offensive flow of the guard. so the offensive set has to be reset.
kanter does it also.
so give kanter and favors 30+ minutes. and jazz have that defensive edge back.
it will be contagious. before you know it millsap will be playing with that fire.
gordon, (burks, watson already plays with that fire).
it will be contagious.

great defense from a center is contagious. seeing as they are the last line of defense. so yeah give favors kanter 30 minutes PER.
and watch millsap defense improve. don't know if al is able to improve his defense in limted minutes.

we dont need jefferson offense.
favors millsap and kanter/burks are way better scorers.
we dont need lazy al's rebounding.
burks is just as a good rebounder
kanter favors and millsap will pickup the slack.

once teams know jazz play gritte physical defense. jazz will win way more games

 

[Former Member]

i wanted TyCo gone before most everybody here so i am no fan of his. I think TyCo does have an identity, it's just not one I/we particularly like. you said it urself, lots of isos for the bigs. that's an identity bro. opposing teams know that utah is gonna pound the ball in the front court and build from there. and you said it urself that u seem to miss sloan ball moreso than jazz ball whatever that means and that sloanball is impossible to fully implement nowadays. i agree with u on getting tyco outta here but dont get fooled by dutch he is just a BIG AL hater. hes trying to blame big al for everything and wishes big al would get injured and die. you sound reasonable and i semi agree with u but dont get fooled by dbagdutch

Fair enough response (except for the needless slams on a fellow poster). Iso's may be an identity (I will concede that), however, I don't believe Iso's should be a professional team's identity. I might as well watch amateurs play... It would be cheaper.

 

[HeavenHarris]

Fair enough response (except for the needless slams on a fellow poster). Iso's may be an identity (I will concede that), however, I don't believe Iso's should be a professional team's identity. I might as well watch amateurs play... It would be cheaper.

thanks bro. and actually lots of pro teams use variations of iso-heavy offenses and have had great success with it. Gregg Pop and Avery Johnson, for example, are ones that come to mind. It's an ugly brand of bball imo, but depending on the personnel, it's effective. Though i agree its not for this jazz team.
also my slams on dutch are not needless at all. I have a philosohpy that i will never ever neg rep anyone because i hate




slamming posters. but for dutch i made an exception because he is a dbag and wishing players to legit get injured and die is just disgusting and he should be banned but the mod overlords love him so we should neg rape him

 

[Former Member]

have You seen how favors runs pick and roll defense.
if i was a 6 foot guard i would think twice.
favors jumps out and bodychecks the guard on the 3 point line.
which makes gaurd thinks twice after that he runs back to his man.

what does it acomplish? you may ask?
it fricking breaks the offensive flow of the guard. so the offensive set has to be reset.
kanter does it also.
so give kanter and favors 30+ minutes. and jazz have that defensive edge back.
it will be contagious. before you know it millsap will be playing with that fire.
gordon, (burks, watson already plays with that fire).
it will be contagious.

great defense from a center is contagious. seeing as they are the last line of defense. so yeah give favors kanter 30 minutes PER.
and watch millsap defense improve. don't know if al is able to improve his defense in limted minutes.

we dont need jefferson offense.
favors millsap and kanter/burks are way better scorers.
we dont need lazy al's rebounding.
burks is just as a good rebounder
kanter favors and millsap will pickup the slack.

once teams know jazz play gritte physical defense. jazz will win way more games

I absolutely agree. I've been advocating for our young players to get as much floor time as possible. I would just add that Millsap has become complacent on the defensive end as well. He might change if Al was gone, but he would have to "re-prove" himself to me. Millsap would have to bring back that scrappy attitude which originally had won all of us over.

 

[DutchJazzer]

I absolutely agree. I've been advocating for our young players to get as much floor time as possible. I would just add that Millsap has become complacent on the defensive end as well. He might change if Al was gone, but he would have to "re-prove" himself to me. Millsap would have to bring back that scrappy attitude which originally had won all of us over.

he did change offensivly and defensivly when al was injured. and when al came back he still did have that edge.
but after a few games of al sucking the ball on offense.
sap disapeared again.

big al is a nice guy of the court. i know.
but on the court he is a cancer to this team

 

[zman1527]

To me, "Jazz basketball" means Sloan-Malone-Stockton basketball. A playmaker PG and a tremendous low post and PNR power forward, along with a hard nosed coach. It was great stuff while they were together.

But that is what it should be called, "Sloan-Malone-Stockton basketball", not "Jazz basketball". Unfortunately, I think the organizations thinks that is what it is and they keep trying to re-create that PG-PF combo first with D-Will-Boozer, not Slow Al and whoever. Can't be done and should not be attempted, "Sloan-Malone-Stockton basketball" is not coming back because it WAS those guys. So quit trying to re-create the past and move on. Make the best use of what talent you have, change with the rules and the evolution of the game, move forward damn it.

 

[DutchJazzer]

To me, "Jazz basketball" means Sloan-Malone-Stockton basketball. A playmaker PG and a tremendous low post and PNR power forward, along with a hard nosed coach. It was great stuff while they were together.

But that is what it should be called, "Sloan-Malone-Stockton basketball", not "Jazz basketball". Unfortunately, I think the organizations thinks that is what it is and they keep trying to re-create that PG-PF combo first with D-Will-Boozer, not Slow Al and whoever. Can't be done and should not be attempted, "Sloan-Malone-Stockton basketball" is not coming back because it WAS those guys. So quit trying to re-create the past and move on. Make the best use of what talent you have, change with the rules and the evolution of the game, move forward damn it.

but we had jazz basketball when we had no malone no stockton.
the year we went 41-41.
i enjoyed that year tremendously.
even if we go 45-37 this yeat i would still prefer the 41-41 year.
when team first jazz hard nosed defensive basketball was played.

edit accidentally said no sloan no stockton(meant no malone no stockton)

 

[m3at]

he did change offensivly and defensivly when al was injured. and when al came back he still did have that edge.
but after a few games of al sucking the ball on offense.
sap disapeared again.

big al is a nice guy of the court. i know.
but on the court he is a cancer to this team

So somehow it's Al's fault that Sap is sucking? Ok, homer, ok.

 

[m3at]

but we had jazz basketball when we had no sloan no stockton.
the year we went 41-41.
i enjoyed that year tremendously.
even if we go 45-37 this yeat i would still prefer the 41-41 year.
when team first jazz hard nosed defensive basketball was played.

That was the flex, moron. zman is absolutely correct. Jazz basketball for 20 years was the PnR with John and Karl. They were a disciplined team that was scrappy and fought for every rebound, loose ball and possession. They were blue collar and bruisers. That WAS Jazz basketball and I haven't see it since John/Karl left. Once they left, Sloan started initiating more flex, which was not exactly a typical brand of Jazz basketball. I've watched every game from the late eighties up until now. Vastly different brand of Jazz basketball.

 

[Stifle Tower]

but we had jazz basketball when we had no sloan no stockton.
the year we went 41-41.
i enjoyed that year tremendously.
even if we go 45-37 this yeat i would still prefer the 41-41 year.
when team first jazz hard nosed defensive basketball was played.

I agree. Other than the surprise run to the conference finals with Deron, that was the most enjoyable season for me. It's just gotten progressively worse to the point I've really become disinterested. Until some changes are made, I doubt I'll watch very much.

 

[Former Member]

I agree. Other than the surprise run to the conference finals with Deron, that was the most enjoyable season for me. It's just gotten progressively worse to the point I've really become disinterested. Until some changes are made, I doubt I'll watch very much.

Ditto. I also want to reiterate the part about being disinterested... It's a very dangerous place to be as a fan, but at least it is cost and time effective.

 

[carolinajazz]

Jazz basketball used to be:

#1 Hard nosed, physical, and disciplined. We lived in the paint and FT line. We had a (predictable) but devastating offensive play/strategy. Stockton to Malone... Duron to Boozer/Memo. Currently, we avoid the FT line and paint at all costs and have no strategy or idea what the hell works. We rarely play physical, we're mentally weak, and typically come out lackadaisical. We're in... what? Year 3? And I still ahve no clue what the hell Ty Corbin is trying to do.

#2 We used to play inside out. Not chuck from the outside in. In the old Jazz system the "Big 4" would be the primary scorers while Hayward, Burks, etc would be cutting and slashing to the rim rdy to receive passes from the post players. The PG's primary job was to get the ball to these primary scorers. Today, we have a SG who tries to play PG and 2 PG's who are literally 5 years past their expiration date.

#3 We used to control the tempo, execute until we got the shot that we wanted (even if the shot clock was winding down), and made players in our system better. Duron Williams just reminded us this past week of this fact. Whether it was Howard Eisley, Shandon Anderson, Carlos Boozer, or Duron Williams... Players typically increased while in our system and declined when outside. The exact opposite is occurring right now. We never control the tempo, never execute even good shots, and I honestly can't think of a player in our system who wouldn't benefit greatly by going elsewhere.

#4 Lastly, leadership. Larry, Jerry, Stock/Malone, Duron, etc wanted to win. I'm not so sure Greggy, Ty, and our "star players" are very concerned over that right now. It seems like one is concerned about merely filling his bank account, Ty is busy cheerleading instead of leading, and our "star players" are too concerned with getting theirs so they can request pay increases this summer.

...can't think of a single thing to improve the "Thrillers" thorough synopsis of past Jazz teams and the current one! Which is why I'm seriously thinking of moving my loyalty's to the TWolves or Spurs who at least try to play the right way and have a "system" other than "put'em up....I got bounds!"

 

[carolinajazz]

...by the way, I guess we're all spoiled from the Stockton/Malone era, since we had 2 of the top 10 all time players at their positions AND top 5 players of all time with basketball BRAINS!

 

[friendsinmyhead]

disagree. maybe KOC/Jazz mgmt thinks Ty is a championship level coach? don't confuse sincere misjudgment with deliberate sabotage. i do not appreciate you calling me a douche, friend.

You are correct. i should not have called you a douche. My apologies.

I did not imply that there was deliberate sabotage. I think they beleive he is "good enough". Good enough to be in that 7-9 spot and that is their true goal. Championships would be great but great coaches cost money and want to do things their way.

 

[jope]

...iso-heavy offenses and have had great success with it. Gregg Pop and Avery Johnson, for example, are ones that come to mind. It's an ugly brand of bball imo

Pop runs an iso heavy offense? if you avg the last five years the spurs rank 6th in the league in asts.

SAS Total Asts Rank
2012 - 1st
2011 - 4th
2010 - 8th
2009 - 7th
2008 - 12th

and as far as avery johnson, over the past 3 years (the years where he didn't have a top 5 player in Dirk-in-his-prime) Avery johnson has gone on to win 60 games of 176 (only a 34% win percentage). is that great success?