Now DWill is the Stackhouse to CP3's Jordan? Laughable hate.
The Jazz traded a top 2/3 PG. A great player still entering his prime, not a diminishing contributor in your original post, and that's why the Jazz good assets in return. That's that.
Deron Williams would have been fifth-team All-NBA
- Thread starter sirkickyass
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The Jazz traded a top 2/3 PG. A great player still entering his prime, not a diminishing contributor in your original post, and that's why the Jazz good assets in return. That's that.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
I don't. I see his shot improving over the summer and Harden improving vastly as well, thus taking some of the burden off of Westbrook. In short, Durant works as hard as anyone in the league not named Kobe and I see them following his lead, no matter how this season ends.
What about Harden getting better or Westbrook getting an improved shot will improve Westbrook's ****** attitude, bad shot selection, and pressure he puts on his own offense?
You missed the point, it's designed to demonstrate how easy it is to manipulate those kind of benchmarking statistics by highlighting the exact accomplishments of one player and then manipulating the timeframe. It's not meant to be a comparison between Deron and Stackhouse.
If I went forward instead of backward for example there would have been a number of players that passed that benchmarking test like Lebron, Kobe, Tracy McGrady and Dwayne Wade but I'm able to iso Stackhouse and Jordan through manipulation of time period and use of specific tests that Stackhouse happens to meet.
You know, because teams always value players exactly appropriately. In any event, the whole reason I think the decline is interesting is because of the change in conversation between where we were at this time last year and where we are now. Put another way, based on that voting it is questionable whether Deron would make the All-Star team if we were picking them today. There's no way we would have predicted that. And if this is something that carries forward with any kind of reliability there's a legitimate argument to be made regarding whether or not the Jazz sold high.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
His and Harden's improvement will lessen the pressure Westbrook has put on himself to be thee guy next to Durant. It's not rocket science. He knows he's looked at as a stud and as one of the two guys who has to carry the team. In working hard to improve his shot and Harden improving greatly (my prediction is he will be the league's most improved player next year), Westbrook will learn over the course of the season, that he needn't take the ill-advised shots he's been taking because there's another option. He may not take three or four of those bad shots a game and instead elect to find Harden for a better look, thus improving efficiency. Said individual and team efficiency will then improve the team as a whole and his attitude should come with it.
Just like how Kobe's attitude miraculously improved with the addition of Pau.
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I still think Westbrook is a bad fit alongside Durant. They would be better off with a top 5 big man, instead of a top 5 PG. Jordan/Kobe/Wade never needed elite or even close to elite PG's because they are the ones that create the offense best.
Harden will not be the most improved player next year either. It's impossible with Durant and Westbrook dominating the ball. Ibaka has a better shot than Harden if he can expand his offense.
Everyone here could take their best guess as to who will be most improved next year and I would still take "the field." Almost by definition the award goes to guys for whom the development was rapid and unpredictable.
Actually, it pretty much goes to whoever improved their PPG the most.
SojoDave
Well-Known Member
Deron is a unique point guard and I think his attitude could be his demise. He complained his way out of Utah and it sounds to me like he is doing the same thing in New Jersey. If he keeps bouncing around to teams, he may never find his dream situation and before he knows it he will be in his mid 30's and an older Deron won't be pretty. Deron has real problems guarding quick guards now and his cross-over won't be so pretty when he slows even more. I think Deron and Bozer will not age well in the NBA.
I don't know about the attitude stuff, but barring significant injury, Deron can be Chauncey Billups at Chauncey Billups' age.
Yeeeaaahhh... not seeing it. Kobe was pissed because he was getting old on a floundering team that was in the middle of a sloppy rebuild. He wanted a(nother) ring and the clock was ticking. Besides that, he had been a spoiled player his entire career and had always been a bit of a bitch.
What is Westbrook's problem? If his concern is 'how much he has to hande' then he should probably let the guy that is A LOT BETTER at scoring shoot the ball more, instead of shooting sometimes 30 shots a night. Westbrook's problem is not his team that is bursting with talent and would naturally only get better, his problem is his own head.
Besides, is or was James Harden really not that good, or could he just never touch the ball with Westbrook on the court? If Westbrook thinks he needs to take a lot more shots than the most gifted scorer in the NBA today (Durant), what will Harden have to do to not only earn his trust, but simultaneously change Westbrook's attitude about the game AND start getting possessions? This isn't Harden's problem or anyone else's except Westbrook, and some combination of his shrink(s) and coach(es).
JAZZFAN_2814
Active Member
I tend to think that Deron is still arguably the best PG in the league.
Yes, better than Rose. Possibly as good and/or better than Paul.
All-NBA team votes don't prove all that much, unless we're talking about outlier talent that is backed by hype or so obvious that even morons like Marc Stein can't deny. The Daniel Day Lewis standard? Within that, there are a few guys per decade that are automatics -- in the 90s, it was Malone and Jordan, for the 00s it was Duncan, Shaq (pre-decline, natch) and Kobe. But even within that group, the latter and more recent, it became arbitrary and questionable -- Duncan making All-NBA over the last couple seasons has been highly suspect, either as a talent evaluation or pure statement of the lack of such talent at the position. His making All-NBA 3rd team last year was a near disaster; the fact that he was All-Defensive second team is retarded.
But, also, and honestly, returning to Deron specifically, the NBA has a glut of "great" point guards at the moment, largely thanks to the new(ish) hand-check rule that has made perimeter defense a joke.
Sometimes I watch Rose, who I'm actually rooting for, and I ask myself whether he'd be anything more than Steve Francis without the softer rules. The sad part is the near-certainty of outcome through FT attempts in the next series, with LeBron and Wade shooting more than a prime Shaq.
On Rose, the Bulls are a very questionable offensive squad, which most use to further hype him and justify the MVP. But when watching and analyzing the Bulls offense, a point becomes so very obvious: the team lacks in shot-creation, either individually or through facilitation.
The former helps Rose's case as "the man", but the latter points to a player with lacking skillsets and arguable mindset positionally; as well, a general argument of what makes a truly great player and how Rose fits into that, whether he really does at all. Shot creation and manipulation of game-flow from that is a very big deal, and something that can be read in such way as to answer the question as to whether a player "makes his teammates better".
I believe that players like Chris Paul and Deron are still better than the other points in the league as far as high-level facilitation. Rose? Is often mediocre at best.
He's a semi-volume scorer out of the PG slot. Relative to the NBA's goals, this is a very attractive player.
But do I think he's clearly the better talent than Williams or Paul? No.
Names like Rondo and Nash are basically an I Ching argument on balance: one can't score and the other can't defend or, for that matter, play at a defensive pace or on a defensive squad.
CP3 and DWill are still right there and, on talent, are the best overall players at their positions. Both come with question marks -- Deron's mental state, Paul's physical durability -- but the skillset parameters still favor them by a good amount, particularly as Point Guards.
Yes, better than Rose. Possibly as good and/or better than Paul.
All-NBA team votes don't prove all that much, unless we're talking about outlier talent that is backed by hype or so obvious that even morons like Marc Stein can't deny. The Daniel Day Lewis standard? Within that, there are a few guys per decade that are automatics -- in the 90s, it was Malone and Jordan, for the 00s it was Duncan, Shaq (pre-decline, natch) and Kobe. But even within that group, the latter and more recent, it became arbitrary and questionable -- Duncan making All-NBA over the last couple seasons has been highly suspect, either as a talent evaluation or pure statement of the lack of such talent at the position. His making All-NBA 3rd team last year was a near disaster; the fact that he was All-Defensive second team is retarded.
But, also, and honestly, returning to Deron specifically, the NBA has a glut of "great" point guards at the moment, largely thanks to the new(ish) hand-check rule that has made perimeter defense a joke.
Sometimes I watch Rose, who I'm actually rooting for, and I ask myself whether he'd be anything more than Steve Francis without the softer rules. The sad part is the near-certainty of outcome through FT attempts in the next series, with LeBron and Wade shooting more than a prime Shaq.
On Rose, the Bulls are a very questionable offensive squad, which most use to further hype him and justify the MVP. But when watching and analyzing the Bulls offense, a point becomes so very obvious: the team lacks in shot-creation, either individually or through facilitation.
The former helps Rose's case as "the man", but the latter points to a player with lacking skillsets and arguable mindset positionally; as well, a general argument of what makes a truly great player and how Rose fits into that, whether he really does at all. Shot creation and manipulation of game-flow from that is a very big deal, and something that can be read in such way as to answer the question as to whether a player "makes his teammates better".
I believe that players like Chris Paul and Deron are still better than the other points in the league as far as high-level facilitation. Rose? Is often mediocre at best.
He's a semi-volume scorer out of the PG slot. Relative to the NBA's goals, this is a very attractive player.
But do I think he's clearly the better talent than Williams or Paul? No.
Names like Rondo and Nash are basically an I Ching argument on balance: one can't score and the other can't defend or, for that matter, play at a defensive pace or on a defensive squad.
CP3 and DWill are still right there and, on talent, are the best overall players at their positions. Both come with question marks -- Deron's mental state, Paul's physical durability -- but the skillset parameters still favor them by a good amount, particularly as Point Guards.
Jazz4ever
Well-Known Member
If your making a skill checklist Deron certainly beats Rose on most categories. The wildcard is Rose's athleticism is just off the charts. It allows him to finish at the rim, recover on defense, and be an absolute terror in any fast break situation. What's scary is Rose is only 22. At the same age Deron was just completing his first season, arguing with Sloan over minutes.