Do you care about how Utah and Mormons are perceived?

[Hedda Gambler]

Being raised by parents who were members of a local pentacostal church in Norway, I obviously had no idea about neither Utah nor Mormonism when I stumbled upon the Stockton and Malone-led Utah Jazz in the earlys 1990s through unoffical satellite feeds. Over the last thirty years, I have followed the Jazz closely and always take in interest when I hear or read about Utah, it`s culture, religion and inhabitants. I consider myself an agnostic today and have for many years, so I don`t consider Mormonism as much more out there/crazy than any other man made religion.

We and the wife saw Kingdom of Heaven a while ago and just finished American Primeval. I am also a huge South Park fan and have had my fair share of laughs at the behalf of Mormonism through them.

I know I ramble, but what I would like to know is how you who reside in Utah feel about these shows and how the majority (my assumption) religion and culture in your state is portrayed. Do you care at all? Do Mormons feel offended by thse shows? Do non-Mormons feel offended and do you talk about these shows?

 

[Al-O-Meter]

I know I ramble, but what I would like to know is how you who reside in Utah feel about these shows and how the majority (my assumption) religion and culture in your state is portrayed. Do you care at all? Do Mormons feel offended by thse shows? Do non-Mormons feel offended and do you talk about these shows?

I haven't watched American Primeval, but the other two don't offend. South Park in particular is pretty kind. The final scene in the Mormon episode drives that home with the Mormon kid being the most noble and not caring about the implausibility of the supernatural elements because the end result was he had a good family life.

 

[fishonjazz]

I have always cared about how Mormons are perceived despite the fact that I'm not a practicing Mormon. My family is made up of pretty devout Mormons. I have always tried to defend the religion despite not believing.
The fact that Mormons and so many other religions seem to be overwhelmingly supportive of the election of a man who cheats on all his wives, sleeps with pornstars, steals from people, steals from charity, cheats with his business practices, commits sexual assault, etc (I could go on all day listing his immorality) makes me less willing to defend Christians and less willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

trump is so far from Christ like its insane. Yet the "followers of Christ" seem to almost worship him.
So I don't really care anymore

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Being raised by parents who were members of a local pentacostal church in Norway, I obviously had no idea about neither Utah nor Mormonism when I stumbled upon the Stockton and Malone-led Utah Jazz in the earlys 1990s through unoffical satellite feeds. Over the last thirty years, I have followed the Jazz closely and always take in interest when I hear or read about Utah, it`s culture, religion and inhabitants. I consider myself an agnostic today and have for many years, so I don`t consider Mormonism as much more out there/crazy than any other man made religion.

We and the wife saw Kingdom of Heaven a while ago and just finished American Primeval. I am also a huge South Park fan and have had my fair share of laughs at the behalf of Mormonism through them.

I know I ramble, but what I would like to know is how you who reside in Utah feel about these shows and how the majority (my assumption) religion and culture in your state is portrayed. Do you care at all? Do Mormons feel offended by thse shows? Do non-Mormons feel offended and do you talk about these shows?

As a a member it doesn’t bug me. I’ve heard some outlandish things and claims. I usually find it funny, and it gives me an opportunity to share my beliefs and faith. But it doesn’t bug me in the slightest. It’s part of our history of being misunderstood. To me it’s normal to hear crazy idea’s about the church.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

I have always cared about how Mormons are perceived despite the fact that I'm not a practicing Mormon. My family is made up of pretty devout Mormons. I have always tried to defend the religion despite not believing.
The fact that Mormons and so many other religions seem to be overwhelmingly supportive of the election of a man who cheats on all his wives, sleeps with pornstars, steals from people, steals from charity, cheats with his business practices, commits sexual assault, etc (I could go on all day listing his immorality) makes me less willing to defend Christians and less willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

trump is so far from Christ like its insane. Yet the "followers of Christ" seem to almost worship him.
So I don't really care anymore

When was the last time we had a moral president? To me woke culture goes against all of my beliefs about the family. In my eyes the #1 thing it does is destroy the family with is central to my beliefs. It’s hard to really know what to believe because Fox says one thing and CNN says another. Family is about as important as it gets to the church. There was no way I was going to vote for someone as woke as Harris. I don’t agree with a lot that Trump has done over the years but his beliefs imo are more in line with my beliefs. What I see is that his family loves and respects him. I don’t believe he’s a particularly honest man but I can’t remember the last honest president.

If a none woke democrat had been running there’s a chance I would’ve voted hor that particular individual. I looked at policy in this case I took what I perceived as the lesser of two evils I’m not someone that votes, straight Democrat or Republican, I think of who I believe is the best man for the job and go with that.

 

[The Thriller]

When was the last time we had a moral president? To me woke culture goes against all of my beliefs about the family. In my eyes the #1 thing it does is destroy the family with is central to my beliefs. It’s hard to really know what to believe because Fox says one thing and CNN says another. Family is about as important as it gets to the church. There was no way I was going to vote for someone as woke as Harris. I don’t agree with a lot that Trump has done over the years but his beliefs imo are more in line with my beliefs. What I see is that his family loves and respects him. I don’t believe he’s a particularly honest man but I can’t remember the last honest president.

If a none woke democrat had been running there’s a chance I would’ve voted hor that particular individual. I looked at policy in this case I took what I perceived as the lesser of two evils I’m not someone that votes, straight Democrat or Republican, I think of who I believe is the best man for the job and go with that.

Biden?
Obama?
HW Bush?
Reagan?
Carter?
Ford?

I think society is pretty important. Any time we limit our view to our family or church, we’re missing a lot.

You think Trump’s family loves and respects him? lol

Sounds like you’re mixing up policy preferences with morality.

 

[The Thriller]

If there’s one consistent among high control religions is that they care desperately what others think of them. It might lead them to higher efforts to hide their deep insecurities but they’re there. Just look at how LDS leadership attempts to ingratiate itself with fellow evangelicals. Or how LDS membership has melded itself to Trump and Trumpism, desperate to be accepted and given a place at the table.

And I don’t think it’s necessarily bad. Religions should care what outsiders think. It would be irresponsible to not be. One should make their religion sensitive to the perceptions of others in order to remain responsive to society’s needs.

Having said there, there are such things as losing principles to appease a leader and bad decisions to meld the religion’s ideology or identity to a bad political leader, party, and party platform. In this case, I’m definitely in the minority here, but I believe the LDS church has made a mistake in failing to denounce Trump and Trumpism. The future lies in multiculturalism, not MAGA. A “multi colored” church is the future, not a return to some weird 1950s rural utah church.

I haven’t watched many of the shows you mentioned. I think it can be helpful for members to see what others think about their church and its history. Some of these histories depicted can be helpful in the education and understanding of the church. Like, where do we get nut jobs like the Tara Westover’s (Educated author) parents? Or the Lafferty bros? Why did the FBI ask a former member (and wife of the FLDS prophet) to help them break into their temple at the YFZ ranch? What prompted the move to change race policy in 1978? What lessons can be learned from that which may inspire those advocating for women and the LGBT community within the LDS church?

Last thought, I do think that sometimes these shows backfire. I did watch a few episodes of “Mom Tok” wives or whatever that Hulu tv show was called. I actually know a few of them (I’m from Utah county). While they attempt to depict themselves as “progressive” members, I don’t think they set a good example. There are progressive members who are devout and advocate for causes that IMO would make the LDS church better and more spiritually satisfying while they seemed to flaunt (not advocate) a crude and immoral lifestyle (while calling themselves LDS). I don’t think their example serves true progressives well.

 

[The Thriller]

I’m definitely in a quiet but very much growing minority of 30-40 year olds who are into their careers but aren’t happy with the current policies or leadership of the church. If you look just in my ward (my street) you have 5 families in similar situations as my wife and I. We don’t like:

* Trump and the corruption and bigotry that many fellow members either indulge in or ignore. It probably helps that the majority of us served foreign missions and see immigrants as fellow children of god, not rapists and murderers.
Oh, and we all believe in vaccines. Believe it or not but this has become a major dividing issue.

* We want greater transparency with finances and history. Couldn’t we discuss openly some of the top concerns or histories rather than week after week regurgitate conference talks?

* We want greater opportunities for women and girls. It’s silly that a 12 year old boy has more respect and power than our wives who are college educated and run their own businesses.
Also, GARMENTS. This is a major issue, especially among women.

* We don’t agree with the traditional families. Sure, having both parents is awesome. But many families with single parents, grandparent, or LGBT parents are awesome too. And it’s dumb how traditionally we’ve dumped all the baby stuff onto women. Men can and should change diapers too. Just like women can be breadwinners. The Family Proclamation was highly influenced by the southern Baptist similar document reaffirming their views on traditional nuclear families and resistance to gay unions and marriages in the mid 1990s.

* We want the church to be a greater force for good. It’s got billions, so donating a paltry few million here and there is a drop in the bucket. Personally, I’d rather have the church focus on building homeless shelters than building more malls and high end real estate (city creek anyone?).

* One topic i haven’t discussed with neighbors due to its sensitivity is temple construction. It’s great. But should it be the priority? Similar to homeless shelters, could our church focus on providing food, child care, and other services for the living rather than focusing on ordinances for the dead? Think about how many child care centers could be built in growing communities in Saratoga and Eagle Mtn rather than a temple that sits empty most of the time? With all due respect to the handful of retired boomers who sit in temples during most of the day while the rest of us work our regular jobs…

Many of these issues are things I’ve discussed with fellow neighbors and friends who are LDS and we’ve had great dialogue. If some of these shows inspire others to look deeper into church topics that interest them or prompt them to try to make the church more inclusive, I think that’s a good thing. We should concern ourselves with what others think with the caveat that we don’t jeopardize our values for popularity. Which, sadly, is how I’ve seen us act in many ways since the religious right became married to the GOP

 

[Sardines]

When was the last time we had a moral president? To me woke culture goes against all of my beliefs about the family. In my eyes the #1 thing it does is destroy the family with is central to my beliefs. It’s hard to really know what to believe because Fox says one thing and CNN says another. Family is about as important as it gets to the church. There was no way I was going to vote for someone as woke as Harris. I don’t agree with a lot that Trump has done over the years but his beliefs imo are more in line with my beliefs. What I see is that his family loves and respects him. I don’t believe he’s a particularly honest man but I can’t remember the last honest president.

If a none woke democrat had been running there’s a chance I would’ve voted hor that particular individual. I looked at policy in this case I took what I perceived as the lesser of two evils I’m not someone that votes, straight Democrat or Republican, I think of who I believe is the best man for the job and go with that.

His family wants to keep their spot in his will.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

I p

Biden?
Obama?
HW Bush?
Reagan?
Carter?
Ford?

I think society is pretty important. Any time we limit our view to our family or church, we’re missing a lot.

You think Trump’s family loves and respects him? lol

Sounds like you’re mixing up policy preferences with morality.

ut my priority in family and god the rest follows in tow because of those things.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

His family wants to keep their spot in his will.

Did CNN, ABC, the View tell you this?

 

[enchilada_style]

I'm not Mormon and don't have any Mormon roots despite living in Utah my whole life. I don't really care how the Mormons are portrayed. It's just not my battle. I was once a bit more sensitive to how Utah as a whole was portrayed but now I just don't care. Utah is kind of a weird place and I've grown to accept it for what it is.

I did overhear a guy at the coffee shop complaining how the new Netflix series seemed anti-Mormon and he felt the show unfairly portrayed them as evil. I'm sure there are many Mormons that feel the same way.

 

[Sardines]

Did CNN, ABC, the View tell you this?

I don't watch broadcast television. I am under 70.

 

[LogGrad98]

When was the last time we had a moral president? To me woke culture goes against all of my beliefs about the family. In my eyes the #1 thing it does is destroy the family with is central to my beliefs. It’s hard to really know what to believe because Fox says one thing and CNN says another. Family is about as important as it gets to the church. There was no way I was going to vote for someone as woke as Harris. I don’t agree with a lot that Trump has done over the years but his beliefs imo are more in line with my beliefs. What I see is that his family loves and respects him. I don’t believe he’s a particularly honest man but I can’t remember the last honest president.

If a none woke democrat had been running there’s a chance I would’ve voted hor that particular individual. I looked at policy in this case I took what I perceived as the lesser of two evils I’m not someone that votes, straight Democrat or Republican, I think of who I believe is the best man for the job and go with that.

So woke culture is worse that adulterous culture? Gay is worse than repeatedly cheating on spouses? Somehow a full revival of Nazi ideology is preferable to gay people, that's what you're saying? Remember you voted for the guy that put a guy who did this into one of the most inner-circle posts he has. I guess you'll fit in, Nazis hated gays too.

 

[LogGrad98]

I’m definitely in a quiet but very much growing minority of 30-40 year olds who are into their careers but aren’t happy with the current policies or leadership of the church. If you look just in my ward (my street) you have 5 families in similar situations as my wife and I. We don’t like:

* Trump and the corruption and bigotry that many fellow members either indulge in or ignore. It probably helps that the majority of us served foreign missions and see immigrants as fellow children of god, not rapists and murderers.
Oh, and we all believe in vaccines. Believe it or not but this has become a major dividing issue.

* We want greater transparency with finances and history. Couldn’t we discuss openly some of the top concerns or histories rather than week after week regurgitate conference talks?

* We want greater opportunities for women and girls. It’s silly that a 12 year old boy has more respect and power than our wives who are college educated and run their own businesses.
Also, GARMENTS. This is a major issue, especially among women.

* We don’t agree with the traditional families. Sure, having both parents is awesome. But many families with single parents, grandparent, or LGBT parents are awesome too. And it’s dumb how traditionally we’ve dumped all the baby stuff onto women. Men can and should change diapers too. Just like women can be breadwinners. The Family Proclamation was highly influenced by the southern Baptist similar document reaffirming their views on traditional nuclear families and resistance to gay unions and marriages in the mid 1990s.

* We want the church to be a greater force for good. It’s got billions, so donating a paltry few million here and there is a drop in the bucket. Personally, I’d rather have the church focus on building homeless shelters than building more malls and high end real estate (city creek anyone?).

* One topic i haven’t discussed with neighbors due to its sensitivity is temple construction. It’s great. But should it be the priority? Similar to homeless shelters, could our church focus on providing food, child care, and other services for the living rather than focusing on ordinances for the dead? Think about how many child care centers could be built in growing communities in Saratoga and Eagle Mtn rather than a temple that sits empty most of the time? With all due respect to the handful of retired boomers who sit in temples during most of the day while the rest of us work our regular jobs…

Many of these issues are things I’ve discussed with fellow neighbors and friends who are LDS and we’ve had great dialogue. If some of these shows inspire others to look deeper into church topics that interest them or prompt them to try to make the church more inclusive, I think that’s a good thing. We should concern ourselves with what others think with the caveat that we don’t jeopardize our values for popularity. Which, sadly, is how I’ve seen us act in many ways since the religious right became married to the GOP

My wife and I took a hard look at the Church, starting with learning to accept an LGBTQ child and attempting to "debunk" the CES letter in discussions with another of our kids, and ending in a support group for sexual abuse survivors in the church who saw the church unequivocally protect and in a few cases actually "promote" their abusers (Bishops who became stake presidents, etc.), leaving them in positions to abuse others. We had the same misgivings you did as well, almost to the letter. We have since left the cult entirely. Some of our family understands, but of course the heavily indoctrinated ones won't even discuss it since discussion about such things gets you excommunicated, since they know that shining a light on the darkness will lead others to leave as well. Abuse children in your official capacity in the church? It's ok we have lawyers for that. Make a few posts on social media questioning anything about the Church? Get called into a court to discuss your apostasy with the stake president. All they care about is PR and keeping the money flowing.

 

[LogGrad98]

I guess bottom line for me is no I don't care. I'm fact I'm worried about my friends and family still stuck in the cult and the degree of outright lying the church will engage in to keep them in check. Just go look at how often the intro to the book of Mormon is changed. Every time they find more archeological evidence that disproves the book's claims about the Americas for example they change it. It went from the book being entirely the record of the history of the native Americans to the people in the book being the primary ancestors of the native Americans, to being "among" the ancestors, to no mention of it at all since the dna evidence has all but proven beyond a doubt there were no middle eastern ancestors at all, they were all actually of Asian descent. They even removed the part that used to read that the book of Mormon was the most correct of all books ever written. The emperor's clothes are being exposed in the information era and won't long stand reasonable and logical scrutiny. And the fact that they still exploit people for monetary gain, including people I know who can little afford it, means to me that it is destructive at best. I've come to personally believe that all religions are nothing but a detriment to society. It absolves people of the need to develop a sense of morality that comes from within and what is best for society and instead allows them to hang their hat on external beliefs and promises of a hereafter. It makes it a hell of a lot easier for a piece of **** like Trump to make inroads since the brainwashing is already in place. He just has to piggy-back off it, and he has a ready-made group of people who believe they were "chosen", so they have no compunction at all putting themselves and their made-up beliefs before the needs of others. The net results of religion are negative in the extreme, even if pockets of religious folks are still trying to do the best they can to be good people. As a mass movement, it has brought us closer to fascism than any other movement in the West since WWII. By their fruits ye shall know them indeed.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Ummm you can wa

I don't watch broadcast television. I am under 70.

Ummm all those things are on other streaming services.

 

[Rubashov]

When was the last time we had a moral president? To me woke culture goes against all of my beliefs about the family. In my eyes the #1 thing it does is destroy the family with is central to my beliefs. It’s hard to really know what to believe because Fox says one thing and CNN says another. Family is about as important as it gets to the church. There was no way I was going to vote for someone as woke as Harris. I don’t agree with a lot that Trump has done over the years but his beliefs imo are more in line with my beliefs. What I see is that his family loves and respects him. I don’t believe he’s a particularly honest man but I can’t remember the last honest president.

If a none woke democrat had been running there’s a chance I would’ve voted hor that particular individual. I looked at policy in this case I took what I perceived as the lesser of two evils I’m not someone that votes, straight Democrat or Republican, I think of who I believe is the best man for the job and go with that.

Obama? I mean the dude is probably a war criminal due to his extensive use of drone strikes and the associated civilian deaths but I mean in terms of his personal morality? I think he gets a pass, strikes me as a fairly decent family man. In terms of unimpeachably decent? Jimmy Carter, one of gods great gentlemen.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

So woke culture is worse that adulterous culture? Gay is worse than repeatedly cheating on spouses? Somehow a full revival of Nazi ideology is preferable to gay people, that's what you're saying? Remember you voted for the guy that put a guy who did this into one of the most inner-circle posts he has. I guess you'll fit in, Nazis hated gays too.

View attachment 17793

Please show me the Nazi ideology. And please don’t refer to that picture I know it’s been doctors. It’s a picture from a video that has nothing to do with the Hitler gesture. And by the way it’s the same people who attended the inauguration who smiled and clapped for Trump. The very people who said he was no different from Hitler. So if they truly believe that rhetoric why are they even there having a good time? They are either brainwashed or nazi’s. Which is it?

 

[LogGrad98]

Please show me the Nazi ideology. And please don’t refer to that picture I know it’s been doctors. It’s a picture from a video that has nothing to do with the Hitler gesture. And by the way it’s the same people who attended the inauguration who smiled and clapped for Trump. The very people who said he was no different from Hitler. So if they truly believe that rhetoric why are they even there having a good time? They are either brainwashed or nazi’s. Which is it?

As soon as you said it has been doctored i knew you were fully brainwashed. You can watch the video yourself. I watched it basically as it happened. If your are really that invested in the conspiracies you have no hope. Many people that had worked with Trump said he plans to enact fascist ideology, which is the foundation of Naziism. He has already started by trying to rewrite the Constitution through executive order and destroy birthright citizenship. I'm sad for you that you are so blinded. I hope you choose to start seeing reality for what it is and not what the conspiracy theorists tell you it is.