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Does anyone still like this team?

One Brow said:
So, they don't quite fit your requirements.


So, not contenders this year.


So, they only do this from time to time, and not as their full-time scheme.


So, not Phoenix.


Loaded with, but don't play in the manner you described as their full-time scheme.


Embiid is a switchable big? I've never heard that before.


Odd how you're having trouble finding one good case of it, though.
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Every single team I listed plays a closing 5 that can shoot and switch on defense.

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@One Brow

Just watch a good playoff team. Watch what they do down the stretch of games. We don't have the personnel or the system that matches. I'm not telling you something you don't already know. You're just being difficult.

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MT Steve said:
Exactly. If you trade Gobert you might as well go scorched earth. Keeping Mitchell would only be delaying the inevitable and making it harder to rebuild from, while very likely not being a playoff team anyways.

Like, if we're gonna go that route, I'd rather trade Mitchell. His value is probably overrated, whereas we know Gobert's is criminally underrated. Might not even fall back that much given that he'd no longer be here to tank all our close games.
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The other advantage of going scorched earth is you can load up on draft capital by moving Royce, Bogey, JC, Mike... it opens up the kind of deals you can hunt for them. You'd also likely kick the can down the road on the 2024 pick we owe OKC since it is top 10 protected.

It depends on the offers of course.
 
Lopo's whole argument seems to be under the strong implication that our offense doesn't work with Gobert.

We posted God-tier offensive ratings in the last two series we got eliminated in. He is living in a different reality.
 
LoPo said:
Every single team I listed plays a closing 5 that can shoot and switch on defense.
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I expected you to make a stronger statement in a rebuttal (the backfire effect), what you did not do was make a stronger case for your position.
 
MT Steve said:
Lopo's whole argument seems to be under the strong implication that our offense doesn't work with Gobert.

We posted God-tier offensive ratings in the last two series we got eliminated in. He is living in a different reality.
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It's funny how yall brag about this incredible offense but also push for going scorched earth.

It reminds me of that line in A Few Good Men - "if your soldiers follow orders or people die, then why would Santiago be in grave danger?"

If we are so good built around Rudy, why do we struggle when it matters most?






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One Brow said:
I expected you to make a stronger statement in a rebuttal (the backfire effect), what you did not do was make a stronger case for your position.
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Because you know these teams are contenders because they play 5 guys who can shoot and 5 guys who can defend multiple positions when they need to at important times of the game.

You know it. I know it. Everybody knows it. It's what wins NBA titles and has for quite some time.


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LoPo said:
It's funny how yall brag about this incredible offense but also push for going scorched earth.
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I'm not pushing for going scorched earth. I'm saying going scorched earth would be better than trading Gobert while desperately trying to appease Mitchell for a couple years of .500ish ball before he inevitably leaves.

Lopo probably thinks the Suns succeeded against the Clippers 5-out style because of Ayton's offense. Their offense was dramatically worse than ours against 5-out - but their defense was ridiculously better. Because when Ayton had to leave the paint, his teammates could actually keep players in front of them enough to prevent a layup drill.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I've wondered on Rudy's trade value in part because of how we use him. I think it will either be a surprise - either a team giving way more than we thought or way less. I don't think Ainge will do a horrible deal unless things get really bad in the locker room.

I also wonder if we could organize a one year stealth tank next year. We own our pick next year... so do like Portland did this year. Obviously wouldn't be the plan going into the season but get a new coach, get guys who are younger but rising for Rudy, move Mike and if Donovan needs some rest or the season goes sideways you can sneak into the bottom of the west fairly easily.
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Sorry, but this is a massively unrealistic idea. Guys like Donovan (by that I mean anyone who is trying to be an All-Time great) isnt just going to sit out a large portion of the season to help lose games. And even if he did, we stealth tank to get a top pick and do what with it? Do we trade it because we only have 2 years of Donovan under contract left?

ALso, Utah isnt that bad without Gobert. IF they trade him they will get enough pieces back to be a sub 500-ish team even if Mitchell misses a lot of games (unless you just get everyone to sit).
 
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LoPo said:
It's funny how yall brag about this incredible offense but also push for going scorched earth.

It reminds me of that line in A Few Good Men - "if your soldiers follow orders or people die, then why would Santiago be in grave danger?"

If we are so good built around Rudy, why do we struggle when it matters most?






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Uhh, because of health dumbass. Every playoff run has been hampered by health.

The injury to Ingles and the complete whiff on the Rudy Gay signing set this team back pretty significantly this season (and future seasons). People want to blow it up because the team isnt fun anymore. There is pretty obvious writing on the wall that a change is going to happen, and no one is excited to see a team that should have been a title contender for the last 3 seasons be reduced to a shell of itself.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Sorry, but this is a massively unrealistic idea. Guys like Donovan (by that I mean anyone who is trying to be an All-Time great) isnt just going to sit out a large portion of the season to help lose games. And even if he did, we stealth tank to get a top pick and do what with it? Do we trade it because we only have 2 years of Donovan under contract left?

ALso, Utah isnt that bad without Gobert. IF they trade him they will get enough pieces back to be a sub 500-ish team even if Mitchell misses a lot of games (unless you just get everyone to sit).
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I was semi-serious... Donovan would clearly have to be hurt which isn't great obviously. Just saying if you were going to switch up a bunch of **** there is chance for failure and if that failure was severe enough it might come with a reward. You pray you get a guy that changes your fortunes with or without Donovan.

It is unrealistic... but if we trade Rudy and don't get some amazing return and Donovan were to miss half the season I think you could tank yourself pretty low. Mike likely is moved in the offseason and is also long in the tooth. Most teams in the West will be trying. We be in the same realm as SA is now without good health.

None of the paths forward seem all that great... it really sucks.
 
If we flame out in the first or second round again, how many of the 5 starters are still in a Jazz jersey on opening night next season?
 
MT Steve said:
I'm not pushing for going scorched earth. I'm saying going scorched earth would be better than trading Gobert while desperately trying to appease Mitchell for a couple years of .500ish ball before he inevitably leaves.

Lopo probably thinks the Suns succeeded against the Clippers 5-out style because of Ayton's offense. Their offense was dramatically worse than ours against 5-out - but their defense was ridiculously better. Because when Ayton had to leave the paint, his teammates could actually keep players in front of them enough to prevent a layup drill.
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The Suns beat the Clippers because they have a better supporting cast than we do. They have key depth at positions where we don't. Ayton played a role, but their overall quality won that series. Just like Rudy in the playoffs plays a role but we lack the overall quality.

It's not rocket science. We relied on Royce and Joe when we needed twice as many similar options. Add in that Paul and Conley are substantially different especially when Conley always seems to be out.


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I also could see Utah getting kind of desperate and doing a last ditch effort and going after someone like Julius Randle.

Randle basically trying to force his way out of NYK after signing a big extension. Utah trades someone like Bogey and Gay for Randle and hopes he somehow reverts back to his previous season



*And to be clear I dont think would work, but at this point I'd rather see anything that's a change-up and risk*
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I also could see Utah getting kind of desperate and doing a last ditch effort and going after someone like Julius Randle.

Randle basically trying to force his way out of NYK after signing a big extension. Utah trades someone like Bogey and Gay for Randle and hopes he somehow reverts back to his previous season



*And to be clear I dont think would work, but at this point I'd rather see anything that's a change-up and risk*
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Maybe talk themselves into Tobias Harris... best be getting a draft pick in both of those deals... cuz dem contracts is nasty.
 
If we didn't have last year's playoffs, this would be rock bottom. The only thing this team is good for is humiliating themselves on the big stage. Dark days ahead for this franchise, but it will be hard to be worse than this.
 
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