Who has the bigger dunce cap.. Russia deniers or Flat Earthers?
Donald Fires FBI Director who's investigating Russian Election Hacking
- Thread starter The Thriller
- Start date
Who has the bigger dunce cap.. Russia deniers or Flat Earthers?
Red
Well-Known Member
This morning, Donald Trump Jr. released the complete email chain in question. Here is that chain, which Trump Jr. released via his Twitter account. At the very least, it will be tough for Trump apologists to continue to dismiss Russiagate as "fake news".
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...rump-jr-emails-full-text-russia-rob-goldstone
Some key passages:
Goldstone to Trump Jr.: " The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras [a Moscow-based developer who tried to partner with Trump in a hotel project] this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary [Clinton] and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.
This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr Trump – helped along by Aras and Emin."
Trump Jr., in reply to above:
"Thanks Rob I appreciate that. I am on the road at the moment but perhaps I just speak to Emin first. Seems we have some time and if it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer. Could we do a call first thing next week when I am back?"
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...rump-jr-emails-full-text-russia-rob-goldstone
Some key passages:
Goldstone to Trump Jr.: " The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras [a Moscow-based developer who tried to partner with Trump in a hotel project] this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary [Clinton] and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.
This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr Trump – helped along by Aras and Emin."
Trump Jr., in reply to above:
"Thanks Rob I appreciate that. I am on the road at the moment but perhaps I just speak to Emin first. Seems we have some time and if it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer. Could we do a call first thing next week when I am back?"
Red
Well-Known Member
It is common for campaigns to collect information on their opposition. However, it is wrong to accept damaging information from foreign nationals, and, clearly, even worse to accept damaging information from adversarial nations. Such as Russia. But, not only was Donald Jr. prepared to do just that, instead of alerting the FBI to this offer from a foreign adversary, he expressed the opinion that he would in fact "love it". And he brought Paul Manafort and Kushner along with him for this meeting. What he should have done is bring it to the attention of the FBI.
This administration has once again called the truth lies. Doing that once on a major issue is a problem. Developing a pattern of aggressively calling the truth lies is completely unforgivable. This administration has no integrity or credibility. Anyone who can ignore this continued assault on reality and provide support for Donald Trump, even on matters where it has been proven that he is operating in his own self defined false-reality, is mind boggling.
You should get a hold of a George Orwell essay called Notes on Nationalism, that and his war diary Homage to Catalonia form the intellectual motivation for 1984.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Pretty hilarious to watch Fox News and el rushbo suddenly become the greatest Russia sympathizers I've ever seen. You'd swear that we had an alliance with Stalin in order to combat the Axis powers again.
Today on his afternoon radio show Sean Hannity kept saying that, "Well she didn't provide trump with anything." As if that somehow makes it ok. If i set up a meeting with someone thinking that they'll buy my meth and it ends up being a cop, I'm like still totally fine right?
He further added that, "it's not collusion since Donald and Putin weren't directly in contact!"
The stupidity of the right wing propaganda and their addicts will be the death of this country. Hell, maybe it already is? I'm not sure how we can take our democracy back and repair the credibility of our elections. This Russia/Collusion episode has the potential to permanently destroy confidence in our elections and credibility of our institutions. Trump has already done his best to kill the free press and our intelligence agencies.
Today on his afternoon radio show Sean Hannity kept saying that, "Well she didn't provide trump with anything." As if that somehow makes it ok. If i set up a meeting with someone thinking that they'll buy my meth and it ends up being a cop, I'm like still totally fine right?
He further added that, "it's not collusion since Donald and Putin weren't directly in contact!"
The stupidity of the right wing propaganda and their addicts will be the death of this country. Hell, maybe it already is? I'm not sure how we can take our democracy back and repair the credibility of our elections. This Russia/Collusion episode has the potential to permanently destroy confidence in our elections and credibility of our institutions. Trump has already done his best to kill the free press and our intelligence agencies.
See, and what I'm surprised about, is DutchRudder can't even provide one of his non-defense's.
You know you effed up when you're conservative, and DutchRudder stops defending you.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Rush today: This is a nothingburger. Just more allegations. Besides, the Trumps got nothing from this Russian operative.
Says who? The people in the meeting who have every motive to lie (and have been proven to be liars?).
Hannity today: Collusion isn't bad. But for hell's sake, focus on Clinton! Seth Rich! Bleached Servers! Jr. has been so transparent! He didn't have to release those emails! He came on my show and told nothing but the truth last night!
I guess Hannity is banking that his listeners don't know that the Times was about to release the emails.
Alex Jones: This is a good thing! What Jr. was doing was a service! He was actually vetting Russian spies for the American government! The real conspiracy here is that Ukrainian officials were trying to get dirt on Manafort and give them to the DNC. (a story that has been refuted many times already).
Yawn. If Jr. was really doing a service why did Kusher and Manafort fail to check-in at Trump Tower for this meeting? Why didn't Kushner disclose this meeting? Why did Jr. become excited in this email when they talked about "dirt on Clinton?" Why did he lie about having any communications with the Russians?
The right wing justification for this is disheartening. You'd think if there was one thing our nation could rally around, was a clear and blatant attack from Russia. Yet, here we are, people are finding ways to ignore, justify, and minimize this inappropriate behavior!
If the normalization of collusion/treason/whatever you want to call this continues unpunished, what kind of precedent does this set going forward? Do Democrats team up with China to hack the RNC? Do drug lords from South America team up with Republicans in 2020? How about oil oligarchs from the Middle-East? Diamond sellers in Africa? Why not bring in the Japanese mafia? Does does the Kim family want in on this sweet action?
Why not have a full on firesale of American Democracy for the midterms?
Says who? The people in the meeting who have every motive to lie (and have been proven to be liars?).
Hannity today: Collusion isn't bad. But for hell's sake, focus on Clinton! Seth Rich! Bleached Servers! Jr. has been so transparent! He didn't have to release those emails! He came on my show and told nothing but the truth last night!
I guess Hannity is banking that his listeners don't know that the Times was about to release the emails.
Alex Jones: This is a good thing! What Jr. was doing was a service! He was actually vetting Russian spies for the American government! The real conspiracy here is that Ukrainian officials were trying to get dirt on Manafort and give them to the DNC. (a story that has been refuted many times already).
Yawn. If Jr. was really doing a service why did Kusher and Manafort fail to check-in at Trump Tower for this meeting? Why didn't Kushner disclose this meeting? Why did Jr. become excited in this email when they talked about "dirt on Clinton?" Why did he lie about having any communications with the Russians?
The right wing justification for this is disheartening. You'd think if there was one thing our nation could rally around, was a clear and blatant attack from Russia. Yet, here we are, people are finding ways to ignore, justify, and minimize this inappropriate behavior!
If the normalization of collusion/treason/whatever you want to call this continues unpunished, what kind of precedent does this set going forward? Do Democrats team up with China to hack the RNC? Do drug lords from South America team up with Republicans in 2020? How about oil oligarchs from the Middle-East? Diamond sellers in Africa? Why not bring in the Japanese mafia? Does does the Kim family want in on this sweet action?
Why not have a full on firesale of American Democracy for the midterms?
Red
Well-Known Member
Keying on Kushner:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article160803619.html
"Investigators at the House and Senate Intelligence committees and the Justice Department are examining whether the Trump campaign’s digital operation – overseen by Jared Kushner – helped guide Russia’s sophisticated voter targeting and fake news attacks on Hillary Clinton in 2016.
Congressional and Justice Department investigators are focusing on whether Trump’s campaign pointed Russian cyber operatives to certain voting jurisdictions in key states – areas where Trump’s digital team and Republican operatives were spotting unexpected weakness in voter support for Hillary Clinton, according to several people familiar with the parallel inquiries.
Also under scrutiny is the question of whether Trump associates or campaign aides had any role in assisting the Russians in publicly releasing thousands of emails, hacked from the accounts of top Democrats, at turning points in the presidential race, mainly through the London-based transparency web site WikiLeaks.
Rep. Adam Schiff of California, ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, told McClatchy he wants to know whether Russia’s “fake or damaging news stories” were “coordinated in any way in terms of targeting or in terms of timing or in terms of any other measure … with the (Trump) campaign.”
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article160803619.html
"Investigators at the House and Senate Intelligence committees and the Justice Department are examining whether the Trump campaign’s digital operation – overseen by Jared Kushner – helped guide Russia’s sophisticated voter targeting and fake news attacks on Hillary Clinton in 2016.
Congressional and Justice Department investigators are focusing on whether Trump’s campaign pointed Russian cyber operatives to certain voting jurisdictions in key states – areas where Trump’s digital team and Republican operatives were spotting unexpected weakness in voter support for Hillary Clinton, according to several people familiar with the parallel inquiries.
Also under scrutiny is the question of whether Trump associates or campaign aides had any role in assisting the Russians in publicly releasing thousands of emails, hacked from the accounts of top Democrats, at turning points in the presidential race, mainly through the London-based transparency web site WikiLeaks.
Rep. Adam Schiff of California, ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, told McClatchy he wants to know whether Russia’s “fake or damaging news stories” were “coordinated in any way in terms of targeting or in terms of timing or in terms of any other measure … with the (Trump) campaign.”
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
https://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-officials-overheard-discussing-trump-associates-before-campaign-began-1499890354?mod=e2fb
Yeah man... if only we knew the Russians were meeting with key Donnie associates in, say, 2015, before he officially declared his candidacy
Yeah man... if only we knew the Russians were meeting with key Donnie associates in, say, 2015, before he officially declared his candidacy
Red
Well-Known Member
We are likely about to see a tsunami of "fake news" claims. All Trump and his team have are lies to counter the truth:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...f-fake-news-craziness/?utm_term=.409cdd98e2dd
".....the Trump administration appears poised to ramp up its own campaign against the news media. Which means we are about to enter a new phase of escalation in Trump’s “fake news” wars, in which he will counter reports about investigations into whether his campaign coordinated with Russia to spread actually fake news by calling those reports “fake news.”
"This campaign is now set to include undermining individual reporters. As Philip Rucker and Ashley Parker report in The Post, Trump allies plan a campaign “to try to discredit some of the journalists who have been reporting on the matter. They say they will “research the reporters’ previous work, in some cases going back years, and to exploit any mistakes or perceived biases. They intend to demand corrections, trumpet errors on social media and feed them to conservative outlets, such as Fox News.”
The goal is obvious: To produce an army of viewers and readers who are essentially programmed to dismiss any coverage of the Russia investigation that does not immediately exonerate Trump and all members of his campaign team. In a sense, the Trump team is attempting to pull off something similar to what the Russians did during the campaign: Inundate receptive audiences with disinformation that simultaneously cements a pro-Trump narrative and wreaks havoc on the audience’s trust in real media sources."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...f-fake-news-craziness/?utm_term=.409cdd98e2dd
".....the Trump administration appears poised to ramp up its own campaign against the news media. Which means we are about to enter a new phase of escalation in Trump’s “fake news” wars, in which he will counter reports about investigations into whether his campaign coordinated with Russia to spread actually fake news by calling those reports “fake news.”
"This campaign is now set to include undermining individual reporters. As Philip Rucker and Ashley Parker report in The Post, Trump allies plan a campaign “to try to discredit some of the journalists who have been reporting on the matter. They say they will “research the reporters’ previous work, in some cases going back years, and to exploit any mistakes or perceived biases. They intend to demand corrections, trumpet errors on social media and feed them to conservative outlets, such as Fox News.”
The goal is obvious: To produce an army of viewers and readers who are essentially programmed to dismiss any coverage of the Russia investigation that does not immediately exonerate Trump and all members of his campaign team. In a sense, the Trump team is attempting to pull off something similar to what the Russians did during the campaign: Inundate receptive audiences with disinformation that simultaneously cements a pro-Trump narrative and wreaks havoc on the audience’s trust in real media sources."
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Where is this taking us?
I mean seriously, does anyone on the right have a conscience anymore?
When will paul Ryan or Mitch McConnell say, "enough is enough?"
Trump will eventually be impeached, resign, or otherwise leave office in 4-8 years.
But will anything be left of our American political system? Or is "winning" and making **** loads of money the only thing that matters anymore?
Even Nixon had more of a conscience!
This scorched earth policy that trump is employing with insulting opponents, inciting riots, lying all over social media, surrounding himself with family and business interests, colluding with Russia, and attacking the free press might permanently damage our democracy... something far worse than any legislation he could pass.
Do repubs have a vision of the post-trump era? What will his replacement be like? Think democrats will sit idly and won't escalate this into an arms race? Do they even care?
I mean seriously, does anyone on the right have a conscience anymore?
When will paul Ryan or Mitch McConnell say, "enough is enough?"
Trump will eventually be impeached, resign, or otherwise leave office in 4-8 years.
But will anything be left of our American political system? Or is "winning" and making **** loads of money the only thing that matters anymore?
Even Nixon had more of a conscience!
This scorched earth policy that trump is employing with insulting opponents, inciting riots, lying all over social media, surrounding himself with family and business interests, colluding with Russia, and attacking the free press might permanently damage our democracy... something far worse than any legislation he could pass.
Do repubs have a vision of the post-trump era? What will his replacement be like? Think democrats will sit idly and won't escalate this into an arms race? Do they even care?
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Unbelievable. What the ****?
http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/13/politics/trump-paris-press-conference/index.html
1. He's making us look bad. Who honestly buys that this woman wasn't connected to the Kremlin? Literally, every intelligence agency has reported that this is how the Kremlin works. Putin isn't going to come up personally and collude. They're going to send someone like this as an undercover agent. Duh. I can't imagine that our allies in the UK, Germany, and France listen to Trump and think, "Damn! He's right. Putin doesn't operate like this. Lets merely trust that this Russian lawyer is telling the truth and that there's nothing to see here." I mean, cmon!
2. Very quickly Donald has laid the groundwork for his defense: Collusion isn't bad, it's standard procedure!
3. Just to recap, over the past 6 months:
* We didn't communicate with the Russians! It's Fake News!
* Ok so maybe we communicated with the Russians. But we didn't collude! It's Fake News!
* Ok so we lied about all that Fake News stuff, it's actually true news! But is collusion really that bad?
How can any warm blooded American buy this horse ****? Are millions in this country, including most Republican members of Congress cool this this?
4. What's the endgame here? Where does this lead us? Do we see escalation? What's stopping China, North Korea, South American drug lords, Middle-Eastern oil barons, etc from colluding in the future with politicians?
Is this nonsense really what we want? But without coming down HARD on Trump, our Congress seems to be opening up this pandora's box...
http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/13/politics/trump-paris-press-conference/index.html
1. He's making us look bad. Who honestly buys that this woman wasn't connected to the Kremlin? Literally, every intelligence agency has reported that this is how the Kremlin works. Putin isn't going to come up personally and collude. They're going to send someone like this as an undercover agent. Duh. I can't imagine that our allies in the UK, Germany, and France listen to Trump and think, "Damn! He's right. Putin doesn't operate like this. Lets merely trust that this Russian lawyer is telling the truth and that there's nothing to see here." I mean, cmon!
2. Very quickly Donald has laid the groundwork for his defense: Collusion isn't bad, it's standard procedure!
3. Just to recap, over the past 6 months:
* We didn't communicate with the Russians! It's Fake News!
* Ok so maybe we communicated with the Russians. But we didn't collude! It's Fake News!
* Ok so we lied about all that Fake News stuff, it's actually true news! But is collusion really that bad?
How can any warm blooded American buy this horse ****? Are millions in this country, including most Republican members of Congress cool this this?
4. What's the endgame here? Where does this lead us? Do we see escalation? What's stopping China, North Korea, South American drug lords, Middle-Eastern oil barons, etc from colluding in the future with politicians?
Is this nonsense really what we want? But without coming down HARD on Trump, our Congress seems to be opening up this pandora's box...
I'd ask them, but they won't answer any questions about it. I think they've reached the fourth stage of grief.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Right.
Did you see Paul Ryan yesterday? When asked if he would collude with a Russian agent if they promised dirt on his opponent, he responded, "I won't answer hypotheticals."
Huh???
What world are we living on?
The answer should always 100 percent be, "Not just no, but HELL NO!"
But alas, we live in such a bizarre alt-fact world.
My respect for Lindsey Graham has never been higher. Who would've guessed that in 2017 he would be the GOP's moral and intellectual Mecca?
Unbelievable.
And it's not a hypothetical. It's what Trump did. Maybe they needed to be specific "Would you have done what the Trump campaign did?"