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Donald Fires FBI Director who's investigating Russian Election Hacking

During the GOP national convention, in the Summer of 2016, someone had the wording of one clause changed in the Republican platform. A clause involving the Ukraine was changed to reflect a policy that would be more favorable from the point of view of Russia and Putin. As far as I know, it was the only change made to the Republican platform during their convention. At the time, it seemed likely that the change came at the orders of Paul Manafort, although it was denied at the time. Since then, I've suspected, that if and when everything came out in the wash, Paul Manafort would be a central character.

On July 26, 2017, according to the Washington Post, the FBI conducted a predawn raid on a home belonging to Manafort:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-russia-investigation/?utm_term=.f517ffa1350c

A brief summary, if you cannot access the Post report:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/mueller-closes-in-on-manafort/536349/
 
It’s a sad time for patriots. Babe’s doppelgänger, Rich Higgins, has been forced to resign from his position at the NSC.

"Fired White House staffer argued "deep state" attacked Trump administration because the president represents a threat to cultural Marxist memes, globalists, and bankers."

The full story, for those of us that want to pretend the MSM can be believed, is here:

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/10/heres-the-memo-that-blew-up-the-nsc/amp/
 
Jonah said:
It’s a sad time for patriots. Babe’s doppelgänger, Rich Higgins, has been forced to resign from his position at the NSC.

"Fired White House staffer argued "deep state" attacked Trump administration because the president represents a threat to cultural Marxist memes, globalists, and bankers."

The full story, for those of us that want to pretend the MSM can be believed, is here:

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/10/heres-the-memo-that-blew-up-the-nsc/amp/
Click to expand...

I had just finished reading the memo, and my initial thought was "this could have been written by babe".
 
Jonah said:
It’s a sad time for patriots. Babe’s doppelgänger, Rich Higgins, has been forced to resign from his position at the NSC.

"Fired White House staffer argued "deep state" attacked Trump administration because the president represents a threat to cultural Marxist memes, globalists, and bankers."

The full story, for those of us that want to pretend the MSM can be believed, is here:

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/10/heres-the-memo-that-blew-up-the-nsc/amp/
Click to expand...

It is indeed a sad time for patriots because we have a President doing his best to dismantle our constitutional institutions. Very sad day, indeed.
 
Bulletproof said:
It is indeed a sad time for patriots because we have a President doing his best to dismantle our constitutional institutions. Very sad day, indeed.
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Y'all kids never trumpers crack me up. Ain't they teachin you history no more? Back in my day they taught us all presidents tryin ta use there bully pulpit ta defeat there opponents. This ain't nothing new. It ain't the end of democracy. Stop yer cryin an paranoia.
 
Boris said:
Y'all kids never trumpers crack me up. Ain't they teachin you history no more? Back in my day they taught us all presidents tryin ta use there bully pulpit ta defeat there opponents. This ain't nothing new. It ain't the end of democracy. Stop yer cryin an paranoia.
Click to expand...

Nobody's talking about the bully pulpit.
 
Bulletproof said:
It is indeed a sad time for patriots because we have a President doing his best to dismantle our constitutional institutions. Very sad day, indeed.
Click to expand...

Recovery from this period in our history will not be easy. Not with millions ensnared by a fake narrative to such a degree. It may have to be a couple of generations down the line, if at all. A generation that will need to learn American history anew, including putting this present situation in some kind of context that allows as many as possible to see the terrible mistake that was made, and why it was made, the reasons behind the emergence of Trump, and the sickness that is the alt right. At the moment, if such a thing as a national psychosis is possible, I think we are living it. Too many people are simply unable to see themselves with the kind of clarity needed to escape the infection plaguing our country. A waking nightmare. I hope we can put ourselves back together again, but it will have to be at a distance in time, and there are no guarantees in life, so who knows?
 
Lets remember his daughter's texts:

http://www.businessinsider.com/paul-manafort-daughter-text-messages-ukraine-2017-3

In a series of texts reviewed by Business Insider that appear to have been sent by Andrea to her sister, Jessica, in March 2015, Andrea said their father had "no moral or legal compass."

"Don't fool yourself," Andrea wrote to her sister, according to the texts. "That money we have is blood money."

"You know he has killed people in Ukraine? Knowingly," she continued, according to the reviewed texts. "As a tactic to outrage the world and get focus on Ukraine. Remember when there were all those deaths taking place. A while back. About a year ago. Revolts and what not. Do you know whose strategy that was to cause that, to send those people out and get them slaughtered."

Andrea did not respond to a request for comment.

Paul was a top adviser to Yanukovych from 2004 to 2014. Ukrainian authorities have said Yanukovych created the conditions that led to the security forces opening fire. Ukraine's interior minister issued a warrant for Yanukovych's arrest shortly after the uprising. He fled to Russia and was granted asylum.
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Manafort is one sleazeball.
 
Red said:
Recovery from this period in our history will not be easy. Not with millions ensnared by a fake narrative to such a degree. It may have to be a couple of generations down the line, if at all. A generation that will need to learn American history anew, including putting this present situation in some kind of context that allows as many as possible to see the terrible mistake that was made, and why it was made, the reasons behind the emergence of Trump, and the sickness that is the alt right. At the moment, if such a thing as a national psychosis is possible, I think we are living it. Too many people are simply unable to see themselves with the kind of clarity needed to escape the infection plaguing our country. A waking nightmare. I hope we can put ourselves back together again, but it will have to be at a distance in time, and there are no guarantees in life, so who knows?
Click to expand...

One thing I've thought about after Trump's election is my own role in getting him elected. I was extremely anti-Trump during the campaign and yes, I absolutely had/have a blind hatred for him. I think my attitude, my statements (not just mine, many people feel the same way about Trump that I do) helped push people away and ultimately to Trump. People find mindless hatred ugly and distasteful, even if there is some irony in Trump supporters feeling that way about anti-Trump hatred.

So, yeah, I think damage is being done to our democracy. But I think the only way forward is to better understand the people who currently support Trump. To stop mocking them. To stop pigeonholing them. To stop calling them names, like racists, xenophobes, homophobes, etc.. And that will be hard to do with the type of rhetoric that was coming out of the Trump campaign and the overwhelming support Trump enjoyed from openly racist, anti-immigrant organizations and individuals. But people have every right to be racist. People have every right to take an anti-immigration stand. They don't have to be right (in my or anyone else's opinion) in order to have the freedom to believe what they want and to advocate for their beliefs. Thought police have no place in our democracy.

So I think the hardest part in recovering will be for those of us who find the racist and anti-immigration ideas abhorrent, to accept that people in our democracy who have a voice and who have every right to express themselves have some degree of sympathy for those ideas and that we cannot stop that. They are part of the American team, just like pro-choice liberals are part of the team.

We can't just point to Trump and say he is the reason our democracy is in trouble. All of us need to be able to look at ourselves and understand that the world will not neatly adhere to our own world-view.
 
Bulletproof said:
One thing I've thought about after Trump's election is my own role in getting him elected. I was extremely anti-Trump during the campaign and yes, I absolutely had/have a blind hatred for him. I think my attitude, my statements (not just mine, many people feel the same way about Trump that I do) helped push people away and ultimately to Trump. People find mindless hatred ugly and distasteful, even if there is some irony in Trump supporters feeling that way about anti-Trump hatred.

So, yeah, I think damage is being done to our democracy. But I think the only way forward is to better understand the people who currently support Trump. To stop mocking them. To stop pigeonholing them. To stop calling them names, like racists, xenophobes, homophobes, etc.. And that will be hard to do with the type of rhetoric that was coming out of the Trump campaign and the overwhelming support Trump enjoyed from openly racist, anti-immigrant organizations and individuals. But people have every right to be racist. People have every right to take an anti-immigration stand. They don't have to be right (in my or anyone else's opinion) in order to have the freedom to believe what they want and to advocate for their beliefs. Thought police have no place in our democracy.

So I think the hardest part in recovering will be for those of us who find the racist and anti-immigration ideas abhorrent, to accept that people in our democracy who have a voice and who have every right to express themselves have some degree of sympathy for those ideas and that we cannot stop that. They are part of the American team, just like pro-choice liberals are part of the team.

We can't just point to Trump and say he is the reason our democracy is in trouble. All of us need to be able to look at ourselves and understand that the world will not neatly adhere to our own world-view.
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I don't necessarily disagree with this. However, I think you're dismissing the core believers in trump. The die hard people, as people who can be reasoned with.

Donald trump couldn't have won the General without the help of luke-warm democrats/independents/conservatives. Meaning, people unhappy with the DNC, untrusting of Clinton, and those who typically vote republican one way or another. These people can be reasoned with. I think most of them voted trump to either shock the system or because they really just didn't like Clinton. Unfortunately, these people aren't delegated and they typically don't caucus. They'll vote for whoever the party nominates, and sometimes they vote blue other times they vote red.

However, trump would've never killed it in the GOP primary without his hateful xenophobic rhetoric. I'm talking about the caucus going tea party clothing wearing die hard republican. These people worship trump.

This is what gives me cause for concern that there's a significant population that is terminally ill politically. How can you reasons ith people who don't believe in civil rights, deny the occurrence of climate change, believe that there's a dark conspiracy of globalists looking break down national borders, and who'd love to turn the clock back to 1950... or hell, 1850! How do youneason with people who don't believe in real facts but in the alt facts and conspiracies spewed by Rush, Alex, Drudge, and Sean? People who trust more in am radio talk show hosts than scientists, professors, economists, and former ambassadors?

Seriously, think about it, the GOP has been the "party of stupid and racists" for quite some time. Reince Piebrus after Romney's loss in 2012 ran an autopsy on the election. He concluded that the GOP needed to open its tent, soften its rhetoric on women, minoirities, and gays, and become more moderate.

Trump pulled the opposite approach and kicked ***. He excited the base by doing the opposite that was believed to be common sense. Hateful, bombastic, and xenophobic rhetoric made the base cream their pants harder than anything since Phyllis Scafly declared victory over the equal rights amendment.

Hell, those "moderates" like Jeb Bush barely even had a pulse in 2015-2016. In order to gain any popularity, a republican needed to borrow rhetoric from the 1850s southern states and 1930s Germany. The top republicans, Cruz and Trump, made Barry Goldwater look liberal.

So looking ahead in 2020 and beyond, what's there to understand about the die hard Trumpetiers who make up the core GOP today? How do you reason and compromise with people who flat out are crazy? The republican base, im talking about those caucus participants, who make most of the decisions, can they be reasoned with when they flat out don't even believe in reasoning with others?
 
Bulletproof said:
One thing I've thought about after Trump's election is my own role in getting him elected. I was extremely anti-Trump during the campaign and yes, I absolutely had/have a blind hatred for him. I think my attitude, my statements (not just mine, many people feel the same way about Trump that I do) helped push people away and ultimately to Trump. People find mindless hatred ugly and distasteful, even if there is some irony in Trump supporters feeling that way about anti-Trump hatred.

So, yeah, I think damage is being done to our democracy. But I think the only way forward is to better understand the people who currently support Trump. To stop mocking them. To stop pigeonholing them. To stop calling them names, like racists, xenophobes, homophobes, etc.. And that will be hard to do with the type of rhetoric that was coming out of the Trump campaign and the overwhelming support Trump enjoyed from openly racist, anti-immigrant organizations and individuals. But people have every right to be racist. People have every right to take an anti-immigration stand. They don't have to be right (in my or anyone else's opinion) in order to have the freedom to believe what they want and to advocate for their beliefs. Thought police have no place in our democracy.

So I think the hardest part in recovering will be for those of us who find the racist and anti-immigration ideas abhorrent, to accept that people in our democracy who have a voice and who have every right to express themselves have some degree of sympathy for those ideas and that we cannot stop that. They are part of the American team, just like pro-choice liberals are part of the team.

We can't just point to Trump and say he is the reason our democracy is in trouble. All of us need to be able to look at ourselves and understand that the world will not neatly adhere to our own world-view.
Click to expand...

Anthony Bourdain addressed this directly. I think he (and you) hit the nail on the head. Here is a brief article about his comments and a link to the interview in which he gave his comments.

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2016/1...s-utter-contempt-for-working-class-americans/

When celebrity chef Anthony Bourdain took a moment to critique modern liberals recently, the host of CNN’s “Parts Unknown” really let it rip.

In an interview with Reason magazine published Thursday, the liberal Bourdain, between discussion of recipes and spices, slammed the “self-congratulatory” and “privileged left” for their elitist disdain for working-class Americans.

From the interview:

The utter contempt with which privileged Eastern liberals such as myself discuss red-state, gun-country, working-class America as ridiculous and morons and rubes is largely responsible for the upswell of rage and contempt and desire to pull down the temple that we’re seeing now.

I’ve spent a lot of time in gun-country, God-fearing America. There are a hell of a lot of nice people out there, who are doing what everyone else in this world is trying to do: the best they can to get by, and take care of themselves and the people they love.
And the CNN host and chef didn’t stop there. Bourdain went on to call out his fellow liberals for denying conservatives “their basic humanity and legitimacy of their views” and “mock[ing] them at every turn, and treat[ing] them with contempt.” The self-described liberal concluded that such tactics aren’t helpful.

Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, who gave Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton a run for her money in the party’s primary this spring, made a similar observation in mid-November, saying he was “deeply humiliated” by the left’s inability to rally blue-collar Americans to the progressive cause.

President-elect Donald Trump, on the other hand, surged to a surprising electoral victory on Nov. 8 thanks, in large part, to working-class Americans in states like Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania. Clinton seemed to be so convinced that her “blue wall” there wasn’t in jeopardy that she never even visited Wisconsin.

Bourdain also told Reason that it is not, in fact, flattering for liberals to constantly voice outrage over their right-leaning counterparts’ opinions:

The self-congratulatory tone of the privileged left—just repeating and repeating and repeating the outrages of the opposition—this does not win hearts and minds. It doesn’t change anyone’s opinions. It only solidifies them, and makes things worse for all of us. We should be breaking bread with each other, and finding common ground whenever possible. I fear that is not at all what we’ve done.
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http://reason.com/archives/2016/12/29/anthony-bourdain

It is really a great read. I have always like Bourdain, even if he does come across as pretty damn snooty. But he is very active in helping and service oriented charities and such, and isn't afraid to get his own hands dirty doing it, and isn't afraid to call a spade a spade.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Anthony Bourdain addressed this directly. I think he (and you) hit the nail on the head. Here is a brief article about his comments and a link to the interview in which he gave his comments.

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2016/1...s-utter-contempt-for-working-class-americans/



http://reason.com/archives/2016/12/29/anthony-bourdain

It is really a great read. I have always like Bourdain, even if he does come across as pretty damn snooty. But he is very active in helping and service oriented charities and such, and isn't afraid to get his own hands dirty doing it, and isn't afraid to call a spade a spade.
Click to expand...

I think there are two audiences here.

1) Those being left behind in rural America, those seeing educational opportunities dry up, and those who generally feel the crunch of globalization and technology. These are people who voted for trump in the general but easily could've voted for Bernie had he beaten out clinton. How many times have you heard someone who voted for trump explain how they could've voted for sanders? Pretty often I'd imagine. Those are the people described in your article. These people deserve attention and whichever party figures out a way to lift these people, will see a FDR like dominance in politics for decades. These people put trump into the White House.

2) this is the group that has taken over the GOP caucus. They have run the show since the rise of the tea party. They refuse to compromise and want to take the clock back to at least 1950. Or hell, 1850. This is the GOP base that was energized by trump in the primary when he attacked women and minorities. These are the people who truly believe in rush, Alex, and Sean. They don't believe in facts, scientists, or compromise.

They control the primaries and the crazy candidates that emerge for the general population to vote on. These people gave us trump, not someone moderate like Rubio, Kasich, or Bush.

How do we fix the 2nd group? What's there to reason with?
 
The Thriller said:
Like I said folks, there are two different groups that we are talking about here.

The reasonable people who sometimes vote blue and sometimes vote red who put trump into the White House because they couldn't vote for clinton:

And these people, the GOP base:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/11/us/charlottesville-white-nationalists-rally-why/index.html

How do younreason with this?
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Preparatory to the "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville Saturday, this seems like an excellent one page guide to the people and the ideas of the alt right today:

http://www.c-ville.com/kids-alt-right-guide-new-crop-white-nationalists/#.WY7y6JL3ahC

Many protestors opposed to the Alt Right are also expected, and there were skirmishes between the two groups Friday night. I'm pretty much in opposition to the beliefs underlying the Alt Right, but I don't see what is gained by confronting them during their rallies. This is how they feel, their beliefs are important to them, as misguided and bigoted as they appear to me to be. They are real to them, and they are not going to just disappear just because I think they should practice tolerance of non whites. They are as impassioned in their beliefs as I am in mine, and I don't see what is gained by getting in their face when they rally.

I'm also a little conflicted about the specific move that has brought these groups to Charlottesville, the KKK rally in July, and now the Unite the Right rally Saturday: namely, the removal of the statue of Robert E. Lee, pending appeals to the courts. It does seem to constitute erasing American history to a degree in the interests of political correctness. The Civil War happened, and many in the South want to remember the generals that fought on the side of the South. Yes, I get that the South was, in part, fighting for the preservation of the institution of slavery, but telling people they we should have no public reminders of the South's side in that conflict bothers me somewhat as it's nearly akin to saying because the South lost the effort to preserve a way of life that accepted slavery, they must now also have no public reminders that their side ever even existed.

So, we're a bit off subject for this thread I guess, but I thought the above link was an excellent one page guide to some of the personalities leading the Alt Right in America today, and we are in the midst of a cultural and political civil war after all at this time in our history.
 
Red said:
Preparatory to the "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville Saturday, this seems like an excellent one page guide to the people and the ideas of the alt right today:

http://www.c-ville.com/kids-alt-right-guide-new-crop-white-nationalists/#.WY7y6JL3ahC

Many protestors opposed to the Alt Right are also expected, and there were skirmishes between the two groups Friday night. I'm pretty much in opposition to the beliefs underlying the Alt Right, but I don't see what is gained by confronting them during their rallies. This is how they feel, their beliefs are important to them, as misguided and bigoted as they appear to me to be. They are real to them, and they are not going to just disappear just because I think they should practice tolerance of non whites. They are as impassioned in their beliefs as I am in mine, and I don't see what is gained by getting in their face when they rally.

I'm also a little conflicted about the specific move that has brought these groups to Charlottesville, the KKK rally in July, and now the Unite the Right rally Saturday: namely, the removal of the statue of Robert E. Lee, pending appeals to the courts. It does seem to constitute erasing American history to a degree in the interests of political correctness. The Civil War happened, and many in the South want to remember the generals that fought on the side of the South. Yes, I get that the South was, in part, fighting for the preservation of the institution of slavery, but telling people they we should have no public reminders of the South's side in that conflict bothers me somewhat as it's nearly akin to saying because the South lost the effort to preserve a way of life that accepted slavery, they must now also have no public reminders that their side ever even existed.

So, we're a bit off subject for this thread I guess, but I thought the above link was an excellent one page guide to some of the personalities leading the Alt Right in America today, and we are in the midst of a cultural and political civil war after all at this time in our history.
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Awwww cmon Red. Stop being a pompous liberal snowflake. We need to "understand" these people. Stop calling them racist for their racist beliefs. You need to "understand" them. That's why you liberals lost last November. Y'all need to understand the "forgotten man." You know, the poor forgotten white male who's clearly the #1 victim these days.

/s

Could you imagine the uproar had a large group of Muslims or BLM done the same thing? Tanks, riot police, and tear gas would've been used. Their safe protest last night is the very definition of white privilege. They're merely using the Lee statue as a reason to justify their hate. America today has its own Goebbels network of am radio, info wars, Brietbart, and Fox News. the president openly incites hatred at Hitler Youth like Boy Scout jamborees. The NRA clearly advocates in recent ads for a white uprising.

And we wonder why mosques are being torched in Minnesota and Nazi groups are marching in Virginia?
 
The Thriller said:
Awwww cmon Red. Stop being a pompous liberal snowflake. We need to "understand" these people. Stop calling them racist for their racist beliefs. You need to "understand" them. That's why you liberals lost last November. Y'all need to understand the "forgotten man." You know, the poor forgotten white male who's clearly the #1 victim these days.

/s

Could you imagine the uproar had a large group of Muslims or BLM done the same thing? Tanks, riot police, and tear gas would've been used. Their safe protest last night is the very definition of white privilege. They're merely using the Lee statue as a reason to justify their hate. America today has its own Goebbels network of am radio, info wars, Brietbart, and Fox News. the president openly incites hatred at Hitler Youth like Boy Scout jamborees. The NRA clearly advocates in recent ads for a white uprising.

And we wonder why mosques are being torched in Minnesota and Nazi groups are marching in Virginia?
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You really have no idea the point I was making.

You've always been a ****ing moron when it comes to politics. It's like your sports team. You're just a ****ing liberal homer. You do far, FAR more damage to the liberal cause than some dumb *** racist.
 
Bulletproof said:
You really have no idea the point I was making.

You've always been a ****ing moron when it comes to politics. It's like your sports team. You're just a ****ing liberal homer. You do far, FAR more damage to the liberal cause than some dumb *** racist.
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Sorry, but I've never plowed my car into a crowd into a group of people. Stop with the hyperbole.

You have a large racist group led by people who all endorsed trump and are terrorizing an American city. Many have been seen on video as saluting and changing "Heil Trump!" They're protesting the removal of a statue. But that's not the reason they exist. They're racists.

What is there to understand?

What amount of pandering to their demands will satisfy them?

The mere fact that they were able to protest as much as they did without police interference shows their White privilege.

Trump needed a lot of moderate voters to get to the White House. But without the support of these racists, he would t have ever won the GOP nomination.

What are the rest of us supposed to do? What's there for liberals, moderates, and avg conservatives supposed to understand with these racists? I'm getting tired of being made to feel guilty by calling racists who use hitler salutes, attack minorities, and kill people with their cars, RACIST. they're racists, nothing more to see here.
 
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