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Donald is about to go through some things...

I actually hate the fact that the most active place I can discuss anything politics-related, here on Jazz Fanz, is so lacking in conservative representation and can have a tendency to become a liberal echo chamber at times. I wish there were actually sane conservatives who can recognize the Trump cult for what it really is and provide a desperately needed counterpoint both to the endlessly self-congratulatory and self-righteous leftists and the endlessly insane MAGA cultists. Where the **** are all the moderate conservatives that are so desperately needed right now in our political landscape. For this reason I really appreciate @Bucknutz and @Douchebag K for giving us this needed viewpoint. But they cannot carry the banner alone, especially when they are so soundly undermined by the other "conservative" voices here, which are 99% just trolls. (see above for a great example of that)

I have said it many times, and now it is coming to fruition, but the fact that we latch onto this 2-party system is what will destroy our country. You cannot have the populace split into 2 governing factions and only 2 without the inevitable devolution of the political system into just what we have now, a focus entirely on winning at all costs and no focus at all on the constituencies beyond what hot-button topic will get the votes to win again. We need a viable 3rd party or we will watch our once-powerful and fantastic country crumble in the same vein as Rome.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I actually hate the fact that the most active place I can discuss anything politics-related, here on Jazz Fanz, is so lacking in conservative representation and can have a tendency to become a liberal echo chamber at times. I wish there were actually sane conservatives who can recognize the Trump cult for what it really is and provide a desperately needed counterpoint both to the endlessly self-congratulatory and self-righteous leftists and the endlessly insane MAGA cultists. Where the **** are all the moderate conservatives that are so desperately needed right now in our political landscape. For this reason I really appreciate @Bucknutz and @Douchebag K for giving us this needed viewpoint. But they cannot carry the banner alone.

I have said it many times, and now it is coming to fruition, but the fact that we latch onto this 2-party system is what will destroy our country. You cannot have the populace split into 2 governing factions and only 2 without the inevitable devolution of the political system into just what we have now, a focus entirely on winning at all costs and no focus at all on the constituencies beyond what hot-button topic will get the votes to win again. We need a viable 3rd party or we will watch our once-powerful and fantastic country crumble in the same vein as Rome.
Click to expand...

It's really weird, where are all the sane republicans?
 
Rubashov said:
Just saw a clip of the fascist Steve Bannon screaming about the election being about "Victory or death!", touch dramatic....
Click to expand...
That's their MO right now, wax hyperbolic until the hyperbolic seems sane and normal, then drive to new heretofore unknown levels of hyperbole. It won't be long until they are actually "swatting" their political enemies with fake phone calls to police, or simply letting their crazed and insane cult members know that their seemingly "peaceful" liberal neighbors are really gathering their forces to take over the country, so they better take them out Ruanda-style before that can happen! Strike first, strike hard, no mercy!

And the really terrifying thing is I do not think we are that far away from scenarios like that actually playing out. It isn't a big step from confronting a jogging black man in your neighborhood with guns to doing the same to the imaginary threat of the liberal socialists running amok!
 
str8line said:
It's really weird, where are all the sane republicans?
Click to expand...
They have been driven underground. Even the most brave of them, like Romney, cannot withstand the onslaught and threats. And the alternatives are not that great, especially the MAGA Cultist that is running to replace him.

abcnews.go.com

In the race to replace Sen. Romney, Utah weighs a Trump loyalist and a climate-focused congressman

Utah’s upcoming Republican primary will determine whether voters want another moderate conservative like retiring Sen. Mitt Romney or a farther-right candidate who's more willing to fall in line with Donald Trump
abcnews.go.com abcnews.go.com
 
LogGrad98 said:
I actually hate the fact that the most active place I can discuss anything politics-related, here on Jazz Fanz, is so lacking in conservative representation and can have a tendency to become a liberal echo chamber at times. I wish there were actually sane conservatives who can recognize the Trump cult for what it really is and provide a desperately needed counterpoint both to the endlessly self-congratulatory and self-righteous leftists and the endlessly insane MAGA cultists. Where the **** are all the moderate conservatives that are so desperately needed right now in our political landscape. For this reason I really appreciate @Bucknutz and @Douchebag K for giving us this needed viewpoint. But they cannot carry the banner alone, especially when they are so soundly undermined by the other "conservative" voices here, which are 99% just trolls. (see above for a great example of that)

I have said it many times, and now it is coming to fruition, but the fact that we latch onto this 2-party system is what will destroy our country. You cannot have the populace split into 2 governing factions and only 2 without the inevitable devolution of the political system into just what we have now, a focus entirely on winning at all costs and no focus at all on the constituencies beyond what hot-button topic will get the votes to win again. We need a viable 3rd party or we will watch our once-powerful and fantastic country crumble in the same vein as Rome.
Click to expand...
Just speaking for myself here, if trump never happened or if he would go away from politics then suddenly I become much less partisan and much more down the middle. I dont think biological men should play in womens sports. I am anti immigration (hell, I didn't even hate the idea of trumps wall, I was just annoyed that he said mexico would pay for it). I am big time supportive of law and order. I think church and religion are good things that we need more of. But if you read my posts then you would think i'm far left.

the trump affect.
 
fishonjazz said:
Just speaking for myself here, if trump never happened or if he would go away from politics then suddenly I become much less partisan and much more down the middle. I dont think biological men should play in womens sports. I am anti immigration (hell, I didn't even hate the idea of trumps wall, I was just annoyed that he said mexico would pay for it). I am big time supportive of law and order. I think church and religion are good things that we need more of. But if you read my posts then you would think i'm far left.

the trump affect.
Click to expand...
I share many of the same views. Although I would not consider myself to be anti-immigration as much as pro-sane-immigration policies that protect families and children in the process, whereas it seems both sides in our current political world are happy to use them all as pawns in their ****ed-up game of winner-takes-all. I am also slowly shifting my stance on religion, and finding it hard to see where religion actually makes things better in enough volume to offset the tremendous harm it does in other ways. Not sure where that balance tips really, but I am starting to lean toward religion being a net negative on society. Otherwise, we are in similar camps on many of these things.

But that is just it, we are part of the silent majority that makes up the American middle, where we have no representation and receive nothing but ridicule for "fence-sitting" when any sane person can see that compromise and holding dissenting viewpoints that can actually be discussed is a strength way beyond the cult-leanings of the mainstream extremist politics in America.
 
Al-O-Meter said:
Data is simply another word for information.
Click to expand...

You sure?

bloomfire.com

What is Data vs. What is Information? | Bloomfire

What’s the difference between data vs. information, and how can they both be leveraged effectively?
bloomfire.com bloomfire.com

Al-O-Meter said:
Just because you don’t like particular information or it falsifies your preheld beliefs doesn’t mean it isn’t information.
Click to expand...

You've provided neither data nor information to back your claim

Al-O-Meter said:
We are not a democracy. We are a republic and prior to about 15 years ago that wasn't a controversial statement.
Click to expand...

Y'all need to read a little early American history. I'll take Thomas Jefferson's opinion over yours anyday.

en.wikipedia.org

Jeffersonian democracy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

For some reason the MAGA right wing extremists find this semantic issue to an emotional and vitally important distinction.
Why?

slate.com

The Real Reason Why Republicans Keep Saying “We’re a Republic, Not a Democracy”

The author of Democracy May Not Exist on a sinister new talking point.
slate.com slate.com


Al-O-Meter said:
"I pledge allegiance to the flag ... and to the republic for which it stands..."
Click to expand...


"I love living in Phoenix, it is my favorite city in Arizona"
.....it is not in Arizona, it is in the USA
"It is in Arizona, not in the USA"
....it can't be in both?
"CORRECT"

Some seriously bad logic by Al.
Study some Venn Diagrams

Al-O-Meter said:
I don't disagree that we have elements of democracy but only one branch was truly democratic and the head of another branch is semi-democratic. It is technically correct to refer to our system of government as a democratic republic, but that isn't the same as being a democracy. The reason we are not a democracy is because both the democratically elected branch, and the head of the executive branch, and even the popular will of the people are all subservient to the US Constitution.
Click to expand...

You are describing a representative democracy. Yet saying we are not a democracy at all. ponderous.

Al-O-Meter said:
An idea can have broad popular support, be drafted into a bill passed by a majority of the people's elected representatives, and confirmed by the elected head of the executive branch only to be struck down as unconstitutional. The parts of our government with elements of democracy are beneath, below, overruled by, less powerful than a structure well shielded from democracy. That makes us a republic by definition.
Click to expand...

Of course we are a republic, no one is debating that point. You need to prove that we are also not a democracy to win the debate. You're not doing very well so far.

"She is a red head"
...Correct
"Therefore she does not wear glasses"
...But some people with red hair also wear glasses
"BUT SHE HAS RED HAIR!"

This is how insance MAGA sounds to sane people.
 
fishonjazz said:
Of course. This is the affect trump has on our country. He is a cult leader and many people drink the Kool aid he is providing.

2016 election was stolen if he didn't win.
2020 election was stolen from him.
Time magazine person of the year was stolen from him.
The Emmy he didn't get for the apprentice was stolen from him.
His innocence was stolen from him by the jury who convicted him.
2024 election was stolen from him too if he loses.


Trump is the worst.

Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

We all know teenagers who constantly fail and then scream "It's not my fault!" to protect their fragile ego, even though they know, deep inside, that they screwed up.

Most teenagers outgrow this phase and accept responsibility for their failures.
 
silesian said:
You sure?

bloomfire.com

What is Data vs. What is Information? | Bloomfire

What’s the difference between data vs. information, and how can they both be leveraged effectively?
bloomfire.com bloomfire.com
Click to expand...
Yes. 100% sure. Your linked article is dumb and is incorrectly using "information" where they should be using "analysis".

silesian said:
Y'all need to read a little early American history. I'll take Thomas Jefferson's opinion over yours anyday.

en.wikipedia.org

Jeffersonian democracy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...
Y'all need to up your basic reading comprehension. Thomas Jefferson never said the United States was a democracy. He knew it was a republic. Jeffersonian democracy is the avocation for expanding the democratic element in the republic, not for turning the government into a democracy.


silesian said:
For some reason the MAGA right wing extremists find this semantic issue to an emotional and vitally important distinction.
Why?
Click to expand...
Because 2+2=4, words are not violence, and boys in dresses are not girls. Shifting language just to win arguments isn't clever, it is destructive. If your ideas are too weak to stand on their own merits then get different ideas. Don't repackage and repackage and repackage until no one knows what you're talking about.

silesian said:
You are describing a representative democracy. Yet saying we are not a democracy at all.
Click to expand...
We are not a representative democracy. We are not a democracy at all.

A representative democracy is still ruled by the will of the people albeit with elected representatives being the ones in the room conveying the voices of their constituents. That isn't our government although it is our legislative branch. The example I gave earlier of a bill having broad popular support, passed by the people's elected representatives, and signed into law by the President only to be stuck down as unconstitutional would not be possible in a representative democracy, but it is possible in the United States government because the US Constitution overrules the will of the people. You're just wrong.


silesian said:
Of course we are a republic, no one is debating that point.
Click to expand...
You should stop there.

The example of ruling popular laws unconstitutional proves we are not a democracy, representative or otherwise.
 
fishonjazz said:
If you act like a sane republican then you are automatically a RINO
Click to expand...
This.

I dunno how plugged into things online people are here, but if you go onto social media, Lyman people are attacking Cox people for being RINOs. I’ve even seen Republican (nutcake) delegates and senator Mike Lee attack UT GOV Cox for being CA GOV Gavin Newsome. It’s pretty insane. Lyman’s own running mate is attacking Cox for rigging the election. These are all republicans, it’s the GOP primary. Pretty insane. You’ve got Lyman legislators attacking Cox legislators as Lyman goes full Trump/Kari Lake as the Utah GOP turns on itself. Even Mike Lee is attacking the ballots. Pretty insane.

Lyman supporter attacking SLCounty Councilwoman and GOPer who was a delegate

View: https://x.com/gale_kc/status/1803974345024528644?s=46

Lyman supporter

View: https://x.com/stonejalex/status/1805330972180627702?s=46



LG of the state:

View: https://x.com/deidrehenderson/status/1804707000309489985?s=46


Legislator:

View: https://x.com/mikemckellutah/status/1803233096143114661?s=46


Legislator:

View: https://x.com/goptodd/status/1804276104171262000?s=46


Mike Lee attacking the signature gathering process that Gov Cox used. Otherwise, he would’ve been ousted by the caucus. Think about it, one of the most popular R governors got booed at his own convention and lost the party caucus because he’s not Trumpy enough.
https://x.com/basedmikelee/status/1804750804022444522?s=46
 
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str8line said:
It's really weird, where are all the sane republicans?
Click to expand...
Are you serious? Take a look in the mirror. This place is ridiculously hostile to anyone politically right of center. Both Bucknutz and Douchbag K have been personally attacked incessantly here to the point I'm surprised they've lasted this long.

So many here act like the upcoming Presidential election is life and death. Dear morons, it isn't. We had Trump for President and you were fine. We've had Biden for President and you're fine. Whoever is the next President, we'll be fine. Nothing is worth all the toxicity and meanness being spewed here. It is the cherry on the sundae to wonder why the only people left here all agree with each other. Here is an idea: stop being dicks.
 
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Al-O-Meter said:
Are you serious? Take a look in the mirror. This place is ridiculously hostile to anyone politically right of center. Both Bucknutz and Douchbag K have been personally attacked incessantly here to the point I'm surprised they've lasted this long.

So many here act like the upcoming Presidential election is life and death. Dear morons, it isn't. We had Trump for President and you were fine. We've had Biden for President and you're fine. Whoever is the next President, we'll be fine. Nothing is worth all the toxicity and meanness being spewed here. It is the cherry on the sundae to wonder why the only people left here all agree with each other. Here is an idea: stop being dicks.
Click to expand...

Waaaaaah! Holy **** you are the biggest snowflake ever. It's not being hostile to anyone "politically right of center", it's being hostile to Trumptards. If you are a Trumptard you deserve to get called out. It's not political, it's personal. I will not sit by while Trump turns our country into a cult. He's a sick, sick man and anyone with a shred of decency or love of this country needs to call out what's happening. If you want to discuss legitimate issues I'm all for it and will respond civilly, but if your angle is one of excusing The Rapist's behavior and espousing his tactics you'll get nothing but contempt, as you should.
 
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str8line said:
Waaaaaah! Holy **** you are the biggest snowflake ever. It's not being hostile to anyone "politically right of center", it's being hostile to Trumptards. If you are a Trumptard you deserve to get called out. It's not political, it's personal. I will not sit by while Trump turns our country into a cult. He's a sick, sick man and anyone with a shred of decency or love of this country needs to call out what's happening. If you want to discuss legitimate issues I'm all for it and will respond civilly, but if your angle is one of excusing The Rapist's behavior and espousing his tactics you'll get nothing but contempt, as you should.
Click to expand...
Yep, dump trump and the hostility goes way way down across the country.

MAGAs say that people like myself and yourself have TDS (trump derangement syndrome) like that is some sort of flex.

Thing is they are right. Many many Americans have TDS. The question I have is why would anyone want to elect a person who has a syndrome named after them that afflicts millions of Americans to be the president? Do they hate America or something?

Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk
 
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