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Donald Trump

dalamon said:
That's why it irks me. My parents are from Kosovo. We grew up through the Balkan wars, and saw nationalism destroy lives across languages, cultures, and religions. I know the damage it causes. It's scary to see the right elect their own Milosevic.
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The thing is it's not the "right" that's going to elect him. It's more the moderates that are IMO.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Think of how much different it has felt to be victimized by terrorism, or to hear our president apologize for who we are, or to watch a regime like Iran capture and humiliate our troops (and then hear John Kerry thank Iran for their handling of the situation). All of that stuff feels like ****.
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Welcome to the real world and what it's been like being every other country in the world. Pretty much ever. You're basically complaining about what it's like to be normal instead of treated in a special way.
 
NAOS said:
well... Trump is mobilizing the hate vote.
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Well... so be it. Better than setting for the same **** we've been served for the last decades. Better an undisguised hate than fooling ourselves over and over again. This country is set for bigger confrontations if we want to change the status quo, philosophical confrontations don't get me wrong.

With that said I am not a Trump supporter, but you have to admit he is different from what we've had for a long while.
 
Jamezz said:
Well... so be it. Better than setting for the same **** we've been served for the last decades. Better an undisguised hate than fooling ourselves over and over again. This country is set for bigger confrontations if we want to change the status quo, philosophical confrontations don't get me wrong.
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all this hate is disguised, brough.
 
What I'm trying to say here is that something positive might come out of his outspoken character, he might stir things up that might need to be stirred. I'm tired of hearing the same old crock of crap coming from the established career politicians.
 
NAOS said:
hate is more complicated than you think it is. That's probably the final point I'd reach with you.

And Trump is pretty agnostic about the type of hate he's tapping and bringing with him.
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Please elaborate. And I disagree, hate is one the purest emotions there is.
 
I can get easily frustrated when people (especially politicians) do not see things in a way that are obvious to me. It can be easy to think that our country is facing terrible problems and that we are on the brink of disaster. And then I realize how wonderful my life really is. I have a place to live where I feel safe, where I do not have to worry about being hit by bombs or being forced out by armed terrorists, and where I have running water, sewer systems, electricity. I have food to eat, and I have clothes to wear. I have a good job that pays the bills and provides health insurance and other benefits. If I didn't have those things, there are resources available to assist. I have a reasonable expectation of not contracting all manner of horrible infectious diseases and an expectation of medical care in a timely fashion. I have relatively clean air to breath 10 months of the year. I have a good expectation that my nieces and nephews will all grow into adulthood. I have a car and cheap gas that allows me to travel on fairly well-kept roads. I have plenty of opportunities for entertainment. I can worship wherever I choose, or not worship at all, without fearing for my life. I have so many great things in my life, and I am so grateful for that. There are millions, perhaps billions, in this world who are not anywhere near as lucky and would trade for my simple little life in a heartbeat. While we obviously want what is best for our country, whatever we perceive that to be, sometimes we might want to remember how amazing our lives are in comparison to so much of the world. We aren't anywhere near as bad off as we sometimes believe.

And now I will go back to making fun of the Utah Legislature.
 
JazzGal said:
I can get easily frustrated when people (especially politicians) do not see things in a way that are obvious to me. It can be easy to think that our country is facing terrible problems and that we are on the brink of disaster. And then I realize how wonderful my life really is. I have a place to live where I feel safe, where I do not have to worry about being hit by bombs or being forced out by armed terrorists, and where I have running water, sewer systems, electricity. I have food to eat, and I have clothes to wear. I have a good job that pays the bills and provides health insurance and other benefits. If I didn't have those things, there are resources available to assist. I have a reasonable expectation of not contracting all manner of horrible infectious diseases and an expectation of medical care in a timely fashion. I have relatively clean air to breath 10 months of the year. I have a good expectation that my nieces and nephews will all grow into adulthood. I have a car and cheap gas that allows me to travel on fairly well-kept roads. I have plenty of opportunities for entertainment. I can worship wherever I choose, or not worship at all, without fearing for my life. I have so many great things in my life, and I am so grateful for that. There are millions, perhaps billions, in this world who are not anywhere near as lucky and would trade for my simple little life in a heartbeat. While we obviously want what is best for our country, whatever we perceive that to be, sometimes we might want to remember how amazing our lives are in comparison to so much of the world. We aren't anywhere near as bad off as we sometimes believe.

And now I will go back to making fun of the Utah Legislature.
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I agree with all that you said, so long as compliance doesn't lead to losing those things. I didn't move here from Spain for no reason, I knew that I would have it better here economically. In other areas, well that's a different story... It was a tough decision to make that's for sure.
 
Jamezz said:
I was enjoying this discussion but okay, good day to you too.
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ok, how's this:

(a) Only disguises believe in pure things. (b) Hatred isn't any more real or any simpler than jealousy, hunger, confusion, horniness, happiness, sadness, etc. (c) Trump isn't in control of the hatred he's stoking; and he doesn't understand it very well or he wouldn't be doing it.
 
JazzGal said:
I can get easily frustrated when people (especially politicians) do not see things in a way that are obvious to me. It can be easy to think that our country is facing terrible problems and that we are on the brink of disaster. And then I realize how wonderful my life really is. I have a place to live where I feel safe, where I do not have to worry about being hit by bombs or being forced out by armed terrorists, and where I have running water, sewer systems, electricity. I have food to eat, and I have clothes to wear. I have a good job that pays the bills and provides health insurance and other benefits. If I didn't have those things, there are resources available to assist. I have a reasonable expectation of not contracting all manner of horrible infectious diseases and an expectation of medical care in a timely fashion. I have relatively clean air to breath 10 months of the year. I have a good expectation that my nieces and nephews will all grow into adulthood. I have a car and cheap gas that allows me to travel on fairly well-kept roads. I have plenty of opportunities for entertainment. I can worship wherever I choose, or not worship at all, without fearing for my life. I have so many great things in my life, and I am so grateful for that. There are millions, perhaps billions, in this world who are not anywhere near as lucky and would trade for my simple little life in a heartbeat. While we obviously want what is best for our country, whatever we perceive that to be, sometimes we might want to remember how amazing our lives are in comparison to so much of the world. We aren't anywhere near as bad off as we sometimes believe.

And now I will go back to making fun of the Utah Legislature.
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Isn't this a dangerous mindset though? You may not be as bad off, but there are certainly many that are, and in a democracy they still rely on your help in getting the representation they need.
 
NAOS said:
ok, how's this:

(a) Only disguises believe in pure things. (b) Hatred isn't any more real or any simpler than jealousy, hunger, confusion, horniness, happiness, sadness, etc. (c) Trump isn't in control of the hatred he's stoking; and he doesn't understand it very well or he wouldn't be doing it.
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Or is he? I don't think he's naive to the reactions he might be causing on his supporters. Now be it a consequence of his real views for the future of this country or a consequence of just rolling with what seems to be working towards achieving the goal of becoming the President is a whole different story.

About your point a), you don't think we're born in pure innocence and purity? I do, then it's social conditioning which molds us into one thing or the other. I'm yet to see cases of racism in a classroom of 2, 3, 4 year olds, no dead set timeline for when our environment starts messing with our consciousness but it's somewhere around that time frame.
 
JimLes said:
Welcome to the real world and what it's been like being every other country in the world. Pretty much ever. You're basically complaining about what it's like to be normal instead of treated in a special way.
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Oh. I guess we should get ourselves the same sort of crappy government that the rest of the world has then, right?
 
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