Handlogten's Heros
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Not for me it’s not… not for you either.
Donovan refuses to say whether or not he wants to be in Utah moving forward
- Thread starter Jingled
- Start date
Sean
Well-Known Member
nah, bro, you do enough crying for everyone.
The weakest replies lol.
Miggs
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FrenchJazzFa
Well-Known Member
At the Grizz, we take Rudy tomorrow. And we become a real contender immediatly !!
I don't believe Don will ask for a Rudy trade for 2 reasons. He kwow he is a terrible defender and it will be shown even more if Rudy go.
And if he did, it will put a lot of pressure to succeed and we all know that Don does not match well with pressure....
For me, they will both stay unless we got a fantastic offer from another team. I do not not believe it will happen.
jope
Well-Known Member
I like Don and don’t think he’s nearly the defensive dunce that everyone else does. He just needs to be realigned. He has been a part of 3 or 4 top-3 defenses with this TEAM (yes, Rudy, bla bla — it still takes a team effort to be a top defense — re: this year). I suspect his priorities became warped by quin.
That said, part of me hopes he leaves just so the toxic fans who are more interested in bitching about personalities or “he wants to leave” can find peace (more likely the whipping boy just becomes someone else, someone who has done far less for this franchise than Don, and maybe that’s more reasonable for both parties, but I digress).
And for those who wanna dump him simply because of the not-liking-Utah rumors… News flash, nobody ****ing likes Utah. Not even the people from Utah. At least 5 of my friends from high school and I couldn’t wait to bolt for greener pastures where we weren’t as socially isolated because we weren’t white-washed or part of the church. It’s normal, Utah’s just not for everyone. He’s not going to want to stay forever, but if he says he’s committed (to S. Todd I think I saw), there’s no reason to keep obsessing over this stuff. Trade him for asset or roster reasons, but not because he doesn’t like Utah.
Can’t believe we have to endure 2 more months of these (or the “Donovan Mitchell is a terrible person” type) threads lol
That said, part of me hopes he leaves just so the toxic fans who are more interested in bitching about personalities or “he wants to leave” can find peace (more likely the whipping boy just becomes someone else, someone who has done far less for this franchise than Don, and maybe that’s more reasonable for both parties, but I digress).
And for those who wanna dump him simply because of the not-liking-Utah rumors… News flash, nobody ****ing likes Utah. Not even the people from Utah. At least 5 of my friends from high school and I couldn’t wait to bolt for greener pastures where we weren’t as socially isolated because we weren’t white-washed or part of the church. It’s normal, Utah’s just not for everyone. He’s not going to want to stay forever, but if he says he’s committed (to S. Todd I think I saw), there’s no reason to keep obsessing over this stuff. Trade him for asset or roster reasons, but not because he doesn’t like Utah.
Can’t believe we have to endure 2 more months of these (or the “Donovan Mitchell is a terrible person” type) threads lol
LoPo
Well-Known Member
I couldn't agree more. A bunch of these toxic people around here won't admit it, but they are still insecure about how everything with Hayward went down. And some of the media members are in the exact same boat. Everybody sees the current culture of the NBA with stars bolting. We all got spurned by Hayward, and these media members are trying to act like Nostradamus when there has been zero concrete evidence that Don wants out or will want out.
Donovan has a contract and has been so much more committed to this franchise than Hayward ever was. I don't want Don to leave because that just gives toxic fans more fuel. And I also want Don to be given the chance to be the focal point of the team. He's still young, and we don't know how good we can be if we build around him.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
I personally would like to see him gone. He doesn’t play defense, small, which is probably why he’s so inefficient, and even worse at the end of games, and when he’s doubled, which is usually all the time in crunch time, he usually ends up forcing up a low IQ, low percentage shot, instead of making the correct pass. Simply put, he loses *** games as much as he helps us win games if not more.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
I respect your right to have an opinion.
Your little synopsis could be written for Rudy as well. We don't have a perfect player on this team. They both have issues which lead to our team limitations. HOWEVER, there have been plenty of average defending small guards who have been a key part to title winning teams. But...
No NBA champion has been built around an offensively challenged C since Bill Russell (if you would even call him offensively challenged). I mean, we could keep trying to be the first one in 50 years or we can actually adapt to the modern game.
I read his synopsis with Gobert in mind instead of Bitchell and it does not work. You need to get tested for a mental disability.
LogGrad98
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The funny thing is if the FO had spent the last few years surrounding Gobert and Mitchell with defensive-minded 3&D long athletic wings and guards and a PF who could play small ball C instead of obviously defensively-challenged "shooters" like Bogey and Conley, and trying to polish turds like Royce, Oni, et al, we would have been odds on favorites to win it all for more than a couple of years, and would have likely been the team to buck that trend even last year. But our team-building has been crap. I know these players are harder to come by but it is kind of obvious the plan was to overload the offense with long-range weapons, and the defensive scheme was entirely "funnel to Gobert" with zero emphasis on any kind of D beyond that, as evidenced in the Dallas game plan designed to make other people play D instead of just Gobert as to minimize his impact and exploit the fact that NO ONE else can play even passable defense on the entire team. In this way we could have built around Gobert, and Mitchell, and been real contenders. But the plan is inherently flawed and once the other teams figured out the chinks in the armor, well we were done for. And this season you saw all teams develop essentially the same game plan against us to wild success as our collapse was partly our own doing, with loss of confidence and effort and focus and inability to adapt at all, but also because the other teams in the league have us figured out and know how to neutralize our defense entirely, and how to stop our offensive flow, and Snyder has no clue how to adapt to it now that we are exposed.
But the idea that you could not build a contending team around a player like Gobert is garbage. It all depends on the pieces involved, and since we went all-in on non-defenders, and other professional teams figured that out (shocker, right?) then we were done for. Even something like a Brogdon for a Conley, or finding a way to go after a Grant instead of Bogey could have been a difference-maker, or enough of a disruptor to stop the whole scheme of lure Gobert away and attack our ****** defenders non-stop.
Fact is building a team like that could have been done, but we did exactly the wrong things to do so.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
What is this? Therepy? Should I be laying on a couch or something? Call me an idiot next time god damnit!! Idiot!!
No it could not be written with Gobert in mind or any other player on this team.
Frankly, Gobert isn’t utilized to his fullest potential in the offense, is he limited, yes. He can’t give him the ball in the post, but that’s not a deterrent at all. Considering Mitchell’s skill set he should be the perfect player to put next to Gobert because DM gets into the paint at will. He should get 4-5 assists alone to go along with that action. How do you think Harden or Paul get all their assists. Gobert should get to the ft line 1-3 more times based off of Mitchell’s talent alone. Mitchell isn’t a #1 scoring option on a championship level contending team because he’s a low IQ level offensive player.
Look at it this way, IMO, you take Gobert off the jazz to where you’re building around only DM, this is a lotto team year in year out. Take DM out and building around only Gobert. We are a low end playoff team. But… if you add a CP3 to Mitchell and Gobert, and take the ball out of Mitchell’s hand in crunch time we are championship contenders. Gobert while flawed is still not the problem, Mitchell within his role and how he chooses to play is the problem.
Yes, no one is arguing with you, but Gobert adds more to winning than Mitchell does. It’s about team and filling your role. Gobert does exactly what the jazz need him to, Mitchell doesn’t. He’s a much more flawed player then Gobert if you add team roles into the equation.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
We could have made a bunch of other different deals, and we could have been better off. We could have had a better chance at a title. Paul over Conley. Grant over Bogey. Bane and Herb over the crap we took. There are a ton of teams through the years who could probably say the same thing. If we had perfected every decision around Rudy they sure, maybe we could have won it.
But we are talking about a sport that's been around for a long, long time, and there hasn't been a title winner in the last 50 years built around a big man who can't provide his own offense. Not only is the system built around him, but he's also the highest paid player. The NBA just doesn't work like that.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
Donovan needs to work on his defense. Rudy has to be able to finish in the paint when guarded by 6'6" guys. We can play this game all day.
Sure Rudy helps us win more regular season ball games than Donovan. I acknowledge that completely. The system around Rudy works for the regular season so we can get to the playoffs.
But hell, just look at what Jason Kidd just said publicly - they didn't even have to worry about Rudy and Whiteside putting the ball in the basket. And I'm sure that's all somebody else's fault......
The Jazz basically run the same sets with very few wrinkles, so teams have adjusted. In the Dal series, they took more 2 pt shots than ever before and didn't force 3s, which is good to mix it up, but this team needs to rely on the 3 ball more. In the Clippers series that is all they did, and they hung around. If they had just exploited the 2 pt shot a bit more it could have been a different series.
For me it is hard to say what we have with Gobert. When we basically only give him rolls from the top, they become easier to defend. Imagine a baseline right side right outside of the paint screen from Rudy to Donovan to get open for a shot. If they switch Rudy can pivot and hold off a small defender for an oop. If they don't switch Don is wide open. There are so many variables a good offense will have to get players open. I've said it before, I think Gobert would dominate with GS. GS should do anything they can to get Gobert.
On top of that, against DAL it felt like players were trying to give Gobert passes they know he can't catch. When Conley first came to Utah, Gobert and Conley did not jell. Eventually Conley found his sweet spots, but against Dal I saw far to many low passes or oops to far out from the paint. It was really weird.
The great think about what the Jazz used to run back in the day ( Flex and UCLA) are that even when teams know they are coming, they have so many options that players still get open. You turn your head and we'd have a layup. It is why, to this day, the 2004 team was so fun to watch. Subpar talent that almost made the playoffs. Just beautiful basketball. Sloan had his faults too. Inflexible, wouldn't play rookies, underemphasized the 3, but man, it was great to watch, and the sets worked in the playoffs too.
More than anything, I don't feel like Quin is holding anyone accountable. There used to be timeouts where he just stared everyone down. That no longer exists. If he doesn't go, I don't see the Jazz having success in the playoffs to matter what they do about the roster.
For me it is hard to say what we have with Gobert. When we basically only give him rolls from the top, they become easier to defend. Imagine a baseline right side right outside of the paint screen from Rudy to Donovan to get open for a shot. If they switch Rudy can pivot and hold off a small defender for an oop. If they don't switch Don is wide open. There are so many variables a good offense will have to get players open. I've said it before, I think Gobert would dominate with GS. GS should do anything they can to get Gobert.
On top of that, against DAL it felt like players were trying to give Gobert passes they know he can't catch. When Conley first came to Utah, Gobert and Conley did not jell. Eventually Conley found his sweet spots, but against Dal I saw far to many low passes or oops to far out from the paint. It was really weird.
The great think about what the Jazz used to run back in the day ( Flex and UCLA) are that even when teams know they are coming, they have so many options that players still get open. You turn your head and we'd have a layup. It is why, to this day, the 2004 team was so fun to watch. Subpar talent that almost made the playoffs. Just beautiful basketball. Sloan had his faults too. Inflexible, wouldn't play rookies, underemphasized the 3, but man, it was great to watch, and the sets worked in the playoffs too.
More than anything, I don't feel like Quin is holding anyone accountable. There used to be timeouts where he just stared everyone down. That no longer exists. If he doesn't go, I don't see the Jazz having success in the playoffs to matter what they do about the roster.
FrenchJazzFa
Well-Known Member
This thread is going to be funny for a cpl of months ! Pro Rudy againt Pro Rudy ! Still dont undertand who we have to opppose our 2 best players . And for the trading part, it all depend on offer, and what we can get in return,
LoPo
Well-Known Member
Don said he wanted to be here. Read the thread. Literally said he wants to be here.
If reports are true, Rudy said he wants to leave if Don doesn't get shipped out. So much for that "Jazz for life" PR BS.
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Yeah, Donovan sucks that much *** to be around.