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Donovan to play point guard and Conley to play off the ball

Handlogten's Heros said:
It’s just funny when management gets to the same spot a bunch of us were two years ago. Would be nice if the front office had enough vision to go this route before making a huge trade to address the need we didn’t really have. Mike still has obvious value but nothing near what we paid for in a trade and nothing near what his contract is... but we oh well I guess.
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The FO seems to be stuck on positions and labels. They revere the traditional PG and PF positions so they have been chasing the ghost of John Stockton for 2 decades, and they have labeled DM as a shooting guard, so again we need to have that star PG to run alongside our shooting guard. They are slow to adopt the trend if position-less basketball so they get stuck in ruts trying to fill the positions on the depth chart rather than trying to figure out how to put the best units on the floor with the pieces they have. And it keeps them from recognizing the pieces they truly need to go get.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
It’s just funny when management gets to the same spot a bunch of us were two years ago. Would be nice if the front office had enough vision to go this route before making a huge trade to address the need we didn’t really have. Mike still has obvious value but nothing near what we paid for in a trade and nothing near what his contract is... but we oh well I guess.
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Would have been a huge mistake not to pair him with a PG. He's already developed bad habits (no defense). If the Jazz forced him into even higher usage he'd develop worse habits, even on offense probably by just standing around off-ball.
 
LogGrad98 said:
The FO seems to be stuck on positions and labels. They revere the traditional PG and PF positions so they have been chasing the ghost of John Stockton for 2 decades, and they have labeled DM as a shooting guard, so again we need to have that star PG to run alongside our shooting guard. They are slow to adopt the trend if position-less basketball so they get stuck in ruts trying to fill the positions on the depth chart rather than trying to figure out how to put the best units on the floor with the pieces they have. And it keeps them from recognizing the pieces they truly need to go get.
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The Jazz are definitely the opposite of being stuck on labels.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Would have been a huge mistake not to pair him with a PG. He's already developed bad habits (no defense). If the Jazz forced him into even higher usage he'd develop worse habits, even on offense probably by just standing around off-ball.
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Joe can play enough pg... we could have gotten a cheaper backup... we felt we needed a PG with a capital P and G. Long term I always felt he needed to be the smallest guy in the starting lineup to maintain defensive integrity. Whoever you pair him with better have defensive length... offensively I’m fine with Mike especially if there is a clear pecking order but I always maintained if you look at the things you want in a backcourt mate for DM... length, defense, shooting were the biggest things... playmaking will help but we can get that elsewhere. I would have rolled with Ingles or found a player more in his mold (hard to do I admit). Or put more of a two guard next to him. Oni may save us as he theoretically fits what I’d want just wish we had the draft capital back.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
It’s just funny when management gets to the same spot a bunch of us were two years ago. Would be nice if the front office had enough vision to go this route before making a huge trade to address the need we didn’t really have. Mike still has obvious value but nothing near what we paid for in a trade and nothing near what his contract is... but we oh well I guess.
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The gap between is present value to this team and what we paid is so ****ing disheartening.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Would have been a huge mistake not to pair him with a PG. He's already developed bad habits (no defense). If the Jazz forced him into even higher usage he'd develop worse habits, even on offense probably by just standing around off-ball.
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So let’s pair him with a 6’0” guy over 30.... and that we have to gut our team depth and draft capital in order to acquire. Makes perfect sense.
 
Ironic that the FO have attempted to draft, trade for or sign a starting PG, failing time and time again, and the guy they drafted to be a SG turns out to be the best option for PG (yet it takes them 1+ season to figure this out after JF posters have been clamoring for it).

Here's to improving now that the FO has finally seen the light.
 
Had Doncic or Simmons been drafted by this FO, they will probably be playing SF and PF, respectively.
 
FAILED STATE said:
The gap between is present value to this team and what we paid is so ****ing disheartening.
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I know it's hindsight and doesn't capture the entire picture, but there's a sad part in relegating him to being a spot-up shooter when one of the guys we sent in the deal was the best spot-up shooter in the world.
 
infection said:
I know it's hindsight and doesn't capture the entire picture, but there's a sad part in relegating him to being a spot-up shooter when one of the guys we sent in the deal was the best spot-up shooter in the world.
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For a second I thought you were talking about Grayson... I finally got there.
 
infection said:
I know it's hindsight and doesn't capture the entire picture, but there's a sad part in relegating him to being a spot-up shooter when one of the guys we sent in the deal was the best spot-up shooter in the world.
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All three players we sent in the Conley deal, Grayson Korver and Crowder, had better 3pt% than Conley last season
 
kabenac said:
Ironic that the FO have attempted to draft, trade for or sign a starting PG, failing time and time again, and the guy they drafted to be a SG turns out to be the best option for PG (yet it takes them 1+ season to figure this out after JF posters have been clamoring for it).

Here's to improving now that the FO has finally seen the light.
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Don wasn’t ready to be a playmaker his first or second years. His third year he improved but the data suggests outside of the bubble, his line ups as the leader play maker weren’t great either. This is a huge case of recentcy bias. Don didn’t even play PG in college, so by surrounding him with PGs and developing those skills over his first few seasons in the NBA was a great move by the office. Obviously Conley didn’t turn out as expected, but it was hailed at the time. Similarly, Kemba, Derozan, Westbrook, the clippers, and the list goes on of other players and teams that didn’t work out as expected continues. Building a team is part analytics, part development, and a whole bunch of luck.
 
jom2003 said:
All three players we sent in the Conley deal, Grayson Korver and Crowder, had better 3pt% than Conley last season
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And yet Conley is worth more than the lot of them combined. Would get paid more then them collectively on the open market once again. All 3 of those players also had a better 3% than Luka so pick a better stat. That was trash.

Edit*: Fact checked. Conley’s 3pt % is much better than crowders. Your statement was fake news.
 
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And honestly the Mike trade isn’t terrible if we don’t pay 150% and if we’d have got him for the previous playoff run. That extra first lingering out there really sucks... if it was just the one pick and the rotation players then not great but still manageable.

Mike will be better this year in part because of the different role... and in part because of familiarity. He won't just be a spot up shooter but will focus on attacking off ball with DM on the court. I think he's still valuable to have and am happy we won't force it through him as a traditional pg. I really thought he'd be a super version of George Hill on offense. It sounds like they won't force him into the closing lineup every night but that it will be matchup dependent... per Locke on the Duncd on Pod.
 
infection said:
Honestly, I forgot he was even in the deal.
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Korver looked so cooked in the Houston series that I was fine putting him the deal. I just don't think he has it for a full 82 game season anymore.

Would I have kept him or Jae or Exum... well... you know the answer there.
 
MCarter said:
And yet Conley is worth more than the lot of them combined. Would get paid more then them collectively on the open market once again. All 3 of those players also had a better 3% than Luka so pick a better stat. That was trash.
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C'mon fam, the draft capital alone is tough to swallow at this point. Memphis got Brandon Clarke with that pick who would be an absolute gift from god on this current Jazz team.

I like Mike, but now we are starting Mike Conley and he's NOT the PG. Two dudes in the starting lineup who can't crack 6'2" and who now have confusing roles. To say this was well managed by the FO is burying your head in the sand. The saving grace would to make him a super sub and let him dominate second units, and yet they refuse to go that route because he's a big name and paid a ton.
 
Lets stop the joke where we act like Mitchell is undersized at 220 with a 6'10 wingspan so it's impossible to have a smaller PG next to him.
 
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