Don't Ask, Don't Tell is officially history!!

[VINYLONE]

Come on guys...Dutch is just trolling. He has to be.

 

[bordelais7]

That hurts me on so many levels.

Malice intended.

SJK69 still loves you, though.

 

[One Brow]

... but you fail biology ...

Possibly/

... that nothing definitive has been propogated among the scientific community.

Right. I didn't say anything was definitive.

Measurements of development of particular brain structures ... an issue of correlation not being equal to causality.

I never claimed any of the brain structures were causitive. Corelative is much more likely. Why do you think that matters in the determination of the existence of a biological component?

(most studies show 10-30% possibility of genetic factors, 50-70% environmental, which suggests a genetic component, but shows far more likely to be environmental factors).

I said, 'There is much time and much development between "gene" and "choice"'. What about that phrase makes you think I was claiming a 100% genetic cause?

... truly genetically predisposed to homosexuality, with others being the result of environmental factors, and there is some suggestion that some may be the result of choice, if only indirectly.

It could also be that everyone is genetically predisposed to a specific orientation of heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual; and that environmental factors can strengthen or weaken this predisposition in everyone. Further, I would suggest anyone who truly chooses to be heterosexual or homosexual, because they are attracted in both directions and choose to act on one set of attractions, meets teh definition of bisexual.

 

[One Brow]

okay in all seriuosness point 2 and 3 could also be aplied to pedophiles?

I responeded to that in the subsequent post.

 

[One Brow]

as i was trying to say for a long time in this thread. there are studies that prove gayness is a choice and studies that prove gayness is genetetics.

Maybe the language barrier is prevent you from understanding that "environmental factors" does *not* mean "choice".

 

[One Brow]

For me there is a faith based portion, but there is also just a logical portion to my choice. Men and Women have different parts. When those parts come together in a certain way, they are able to create another person. There is one main purpose of a colon, which is to allow, or push, the waste out of the body. So throw out my belief in God, and that I believe there is a purpose and reason to who we are and how we were “created”……Scientifically what would be the purpose of 2 men or 2 women coming together using procreative, or even non-procreative organs?

Your decision of what the purpose of genitals, or a colon, or any other body part is as much a declaration of faith as any preacher proclaiming inerrancy for a scriptural work. There is no purpose marker, measure, or codifier. When two or three people see a different purpose to the same event, there is no way to objectively verify who is right and who is wrong.

By the way, there are far more species of living things that separate the transfer of genetic material from reproduction that have them in the same act. So, any claim the primary purpose of sex is reproduction needs to surmount that hurdle.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Again, all of the choice and consent or not or god and religion or not or blah blah ****ing blah is secondary; WHY ARE PEOPLE SO HUNG UP ABOUT SOMETHING THAT DOES NOT AFFECT THEM?

For the record, I don't really understand the drive that transgendered people have to do or feel what they do, but I don't think that matters. They're human beings and even if I don't understand, that doesn't give me the green light to be an ******* about it. Something to think about, Christians.

 

[chemdude1232]

For no other reason than a guy at a pulpit told them so. Or, for no other reason than it crimps their style at a party b/c now they can't collectively hate/dislike/[insert appropriate verb] "those people."

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

This is unprecedented. Dutch is on such a roll of idiocy that he may well pass Beanclown for biggest moran on the board. That is, if he hasn't already.

Seriously, I'll just pick one statement of yours DJ and ask you to, ya know, factually support it.

"cus fact is gays are weak minded individuals."

 

[C l u t c H 385]

For the record, I don't really understand the drive that transgendered people have to do or feel what they do, but I don't think that matters. They're human beings and even if I don't understand, that doesn't give me the green light to be an ******* about it. Something to think about, Christians.

Well, yea, but you just don't wanna be an ******* around them cause you're afraid of getting ****ed. Badum ching.

 

[DutchJazzer]

That is quite a stereotype to be throwing around with nothing to back it up. Where is your proof that all gay people are weak minded? I would argue the exact opposite. With all the discrimination and whatnot gay people face, I feel they would have a stronger mind. What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. I see no basis for your blatant stereotype.

not all are weak minded. most of them are though


good thing about dadt policy is that it rooted out the weakminded.

the good thing

 

[Get Down]

Sorry for the huge post… but you cannot properly address this using one-liners.

This is my take, and my 2 cents, so take it or leave it... doesn't matter much.

Our preference is shown in all of the little choices we make every day. It is based on what is in our thoughts, which is a choice, and is visible, by our outward actions based on those thoughts. Sexual preference is just that, a preference.

Consider the following example.

As a child I choose to play Mario Brothers and think it’s fun. When I go to bed that night, it is all I can think about. I go to school the next day, and talk to my friends about it, and think about it all during school. I am excited to get home and play it again. I get home… my parent forces me to do my homework first… but I don’t do a good job because I am having a hard time focusing. When I do enough to get by, I begin to play the game again, and learn new things, and pass new levels… and get a feeling of accomplishment. I make this a routine, and when I finish the game, I get another game, and continue with the same routine. I get used to playing all day when home from school, and I also get used to going through games faster. I play multi-player games with my friends… every joke is centered in the games we play. It is a part of me now, everything in life revolves around my being a “gamer”. I grow up, and get a job… but it is hard because instead of working hard…. I just want the time to be over so I can get home and play the new game I got. I just want the week to go by so I can get a paycheck and buy that new game I want. It is a way of life.
Do I know when I chose to be a “gamer”? Maybe I was just born that way, and it is genetic. Or… maybe it is rooted in every single small thought and decision I made in life that leads up to me being a “gamer”.

How do you stop being a gamer? Anyone on this board ever try to root something out of you that you have held onto so long it seems to be a part of you? Being a gamer is a “preference”…. But it’s easy to stop being a gamer right? Just ask anyone. Actually it is just like any “addiction”, or habit you ingrain into your life. The same amount of work it took to make it part of you, will be required to take it out of you, and it may take quite a while.

Could I stop being a “gamer”, if I didn’t want to? Nope.

What’s the point of this? Sexual preference is just that, a preference. It is a collection of thoughts and actions that we choose to make or have. Can you point to the one thought, or the one action and say… this is when I decided to be straight? Probably not because it is a collection of smaller thoughts and actions.

Personally, and scientifically, it just makes sense to have sexual intercourse with women instead of men. For me there is a faith based portion, but there is also just a logical portion to my choice. Men and Women have different parts. When those parts come together in a certain way, they are able to create another person. There is one main purpose of a colon, which is to allow, or push, the waste out of the body. So throw out my belief in God, and that I believe there is a purpose and reason to who we are and how we were “created”……Scientifically what would be the purpose of 2 men or 2 women coming together using procreative, or even non-procreative organs?

I don’t hate people, let alone people who choose these actions.

I also don’t pretend catering to people who choose these actions has no effect on society, my family, or me. I can without hate; stand up for what I believe is right, and best for Society, for my Country, for my Family, and for me. It is not ignorance; it is a choice of mine to say I can respect you as a living, breathing, person….. while at the same time saying I do not agree with your choices, your thoughts, or your actions and find them detrimental to society.

hahaha this thread is so perfectly jazzfanz, my god this post is amazing

i don't even care about the fundamentally broken logic, it's all about how hard you try to come across as earnest and raw

like i'm crippled with pity here. you really, really care and believe everything in this post and it's the saddest ****ing thing to me

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Still waiting for you to prove that gays are weak-minded Dutch. And iyo, weak-minded means what? An inability to control impulses? Overall lower intelligence? What?

 

[LogGrad98]

You fail biology.

1) There are three or four different evolutionary mechanisms that could ensure the continued existence of gay people even though they do not reproduce. ONe of the recently defened mechanisms is sexually antagonistic selection.

2) There are some 15-20 biological differences between gay and straight men.

3) There is much time and much development between "gene" and "choice".

Brow here is your original quote. You sure play it down in your reply above. You lay all out as fact, especially #2 which has no qualifiers, then in the post above you recant. [the post where you go at mine line for line....sorry I am not that good at multi-quoting] If that is not the biological differences you mean then spell it out. I could not find a single study that identified biological differences other than brain structures and "self-reporting" of gay men having larger genitailia, which is hardly fact, and a predominance of left-handedness in gay men. Hardly overwhelming evidence of a biological difference. If you are going to make a statement like "you fail biology" to someone better expect others to go over your own statements of proof of that assertion with a fine-toothed comb.

Nice back-pedal though.

 

[GVC]

This is a funny post because I could say the same about you trying to believe something based on the "dogma" you want to "subscribe" to, and not amount of reason, data, or conversation would convince you you are wrong or otherwise misguided. You are firm in your non-belief because you have no religion. Am I just as right as you?
Lack of religion is fine until it turns harmless people into villians and persecutes them for making a stand.

By the way, persecution would be seeking out certain groups or individuals with the intent to harm physically, verbally, or in some other way.

I believe stating my opinion is just that. If I wanted to persecute someone on this board I would call them out by name, and ridicule, name-call, or demean, or more than that. Before you start throwing words out, think about what you are saying.

Yes, my dogma of live and let live...Sorry for thinking the burden of proof is on you to show how homosexual behavior is detrimental to society, this country, your family and you.

I know exactly what I'm saying. I'm still waiting to hear how homosexual behavior is hurting your family.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Yes, my dogma of live and let live...Sorry for thinking the burden of proof is on you to show how homosexual behavior is detrimental to society, this country, your family and you.

I know exactly what I'm saying. I'm still waiting to hear how homosexual behavior is hurting your family.

so lets say we put 100 gays on 1 uninhabited island and come back in 100 years. and on the other island 50 males 50 females all straight on one uninhabited island.

what will happen in 100 years
evolution will allow them gays to get kids?
no they will be all DEAD

 

[babe]

So here's why Americans should never put up with policies like DADT in the first place. If Asked, Don't Tell is a basic human right to privacy.

 

[franklin]

Except I have addressed some of your points.

on consent
on society crumbling based on use of the ***** for non-baby-making efforts
on rationalization v. reason

It's clear you're trying to believe something based on the dogma you subscribe to. No amount of reason, data, etc. would convince you you're wrong or otherwise misguided. You are firm in your belief because of your religion. Is this not true?

Religion is fine until it turns harmless people into villains, and persecutes them as such.

Are you sure you could be convinced otherwise if the right facts were presented to you?

It's not only the professed religious who hold on to dogma. What's the difference between worshiping your own pre-conceived notions and the tenets of an established code?

 

[GVC]

so lets say we put 100 gays on 1 uninhabited island and come back in 100 years. and on the other island 50 males 50 females all straight on one uninhabited island.

what will happen in 100 years
evolution will allow them gays to get kids?
no they will be all DEAD

What?

 

[KatieMCR]

so lets say we put 100 gays on 1 uninhabited island and come back in 100 years. and on the other island 50 males 50 females all straight on one uninhabited island.

what will happen in 100 years
evolution will allow them gays to get kids?
no they will be all DEAD

Well since you didn't specify a gender for the 100 gay people, we are free to assume it's a mix of gay males and gay females. They would be perfectly capable of reproducing.