Drafting by KOC

[CALJAZZFAN]

AND they thought it wise to throw the biggest contracts allowed in consecutive years for players the Jazz found at Big Lots (Millsap) and the trash can (Matthews). They were right on both, and the Jazz were right on one.

True. Let's not also forget that they have had the luck with injuries, first Oden and now Roy. Roy's contract makes AK's current contract look reasonable. At least we get 42 or so games per year from AK. Roy will be done after this year or next (a stretch, from what I've read).

 

[Lost_Jazz_Fan]

I think the Jazz are very conservative drafters, low-risk/low-reward, at least in the first round. In the second round, they seem to take a few more chances on athletic talent and draft for longer term. Case in point: Koufos over DeAndre Jordan.

The Jazz also have relatively late picks in the first round, tend to draft for position and lock in on a few players each year. They figure that these players they draft aren't going to get much court time anyway unless it's a position of need.

The Kris Humphries over Al Jefferson thing was excusable since Humphries had talent and a track record in college. He just didn't turn out to be a heady, motivated player. However, the Jazz should have known that Snyder was a headcase who couldn't shoot, whereas JR Smith was a headcase who could shoot, and Josh Smith was so athletic that it didn't matter much if he could shoot or not.

This is the most spot on post that I have read on this entire subject. I concur.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Yeah, from what was going around at draft time, Humphries WAS Jefferson, but with a year of college.

Snyder was the whole package coming out of school. Biggest reason he went where he did was because he went to Nevada. I'm sure he interviewed well, and I don't believe there were many issues at Nevada. The two J. Smiths at the time definitely were the higher bust candidates than Snyder. He was supposed to be the real deal.

 

[Lost_Jazz_Fan]

Yeah, from what was going around at draft time, Humphries WAS Jefferson, but with a year of college.

Snyder was the whole package coming out of school. Biggest reason he went where he did was because he went to Nevada. I'm sure he interviewed well, and I don't believe there were many issues at Nevada. The two J. Smiths at the time definitely were the higher bust candidates than Snyder. He was supposed to be the real deal.

Snyder was also really flourishing in the NCAA Tournament that year, definitely helping his case.

 

[Jazz4ever]

2004: F (two firsts and come away with nothing, ouch!)
2005: A (DWill!)
2006: B+ (Sap and Brewer, got a pick for Brewer to get Al so still good)
2007: D (We needed a shooter bad, Almond seemed right, can't quite give F)
2008: F (Boom Biatches, Hopefully KOC has learned his lesson here never draft a guy you didn't workout or interview)
2009: B- (Not much left in this draft where Jazz were, Maynor was a good cheap backup which unfortunately had to be traded)
2010: ? (Hayward is 20 so way to early to grade but Evans alone should be at least a C)

KOC has been really hit or miss. Given the low first round range he usually drafted in I would say he is above average.

 

[unluckyseventeen]

good lord. You can do this for every team in every sport with a draft.

Seriously. And note how he didn't mention the other 10-29 teams passing on those lists of players.

These kinds of draft history threads use some of the most flawed logic I've ever seen, and yet they pop up at least a few times every season. Come on kids, we all know better than this.

 

[jazzbasketball1232]

I think the Jazz are very conservative drafters, low-risk/low-reward, at least in the first round. In the second round, they seem to take a few more chances on athletic talent and draft for longer term. Case in point: Koufos over DeAndre Jordan.

Maybe. they did take deshawn stevenson and they also drafted an euro guy (sasha?) think we lost him in the expansion draft but that wasnt a sure thing either.

 

[gregbroncs]

Seriously. And note how he didn't mention the other 10-29 teams passing on those lists of players.

These kinds of draft history threads use some of the most flawed logic I've ever seen, and yet they pop up at least a few times every season. Come on kids, we all know better than this.

Logic?

 

[YB85]

When criticizing GM's for their drafting, try to remember who you would have taken instead. It's easy to blast them now and say he should have taken Player X, when in reality that player was marginal at draft time. If KOC would have taken Landry Fields with the 9th pick, he would have been killed on this board, in the media, and in the organization. Maybe Fields is just in the right place for him.

In KOC's time, here are the guys I wanted them to take, and were available, compared to who he took with the first round picks:

2000 - He took DeShawn Stevenson, and that's who I wanted.
2001 - He took Raul Lopez (LHM forced his hand). I wanted Gilbert Arenas.
2002 - He took (maneuvered a trade for) Curtis Borchardt. I wanted Carlos Bozzer.
2003 - He took Sasha Pavlovic. I wanted Josh Howard.
2004 - He took Kris Kardashian and Kirk Snyder. I wanted Snyder and Delonte West. Imagine those two with Sloan. I didn't know anything about he high school players. My bad.
2005 - He took Deron Williams. I didn't know if I wanted Williams or Chris Paul. I knew I didn't want Jarrett Jack or Gerald Green.
2006 - He took Ronnie Brewer, and that's who I wanted.
2007 - He took Mo Almond. I wanted Glen Davis.
2008 - He took Kosta Koufos. In that draft, Koufos was probably my guy. I really didn't care.
2009 - He took Eric Maynor (for OKC). I wanted Dejuan Blair.
2010 - He took Gordon Hayward. I wanted Xavier Henry.

 

[tatermoog]

YB for GM.

 

[Stifle Tower]

I think its pretty safe to assume that players were acquired to fit the Sloan system and not the other way around. I mean as a Jazz fan, did you ever wonder about Sloan or KOC making statements that the team was not very athletic compared to other teams and that because of this we "had" to follow the system or else.

Well, it's not like the ****ing players were forced on us. The front office and the coaching staff are to blame the years and years of stiffs that have come through here...

Excellent points.

 

[VINYLONE]

You might be interested in this:

https://www.82games.com/bestdraftingteams.htm

Great read. Thanks for the link.

I dont think its any surprise that the lakers, Spurs and Boston are above us. I am surprised that the Spurs are not higher.

When criticizing GM's for their drafting, try to remember who you would have taken instead. It's easy to blast them now and say he should have taken Player X, when in reality that player was marginal at draft time. If KOC would have taken Landry Fields with the 9th pick, he would have been killed on this board, in the media, and in the organization. Maybe Fields is just in the right place for him.

In KOC's time, here are the guys I wanted them to take, and were available, compared to who he took with the first round picks:

2000 - He took DeShawn Stevenson, and that's who I wanted.
2001 - He took Raul Lopez (LHM forced his hand). I wanted Gilbert Arenas.
2002 - He took (maneuvered a trade for) Curtis Borchardt. I wanted Carlos Bozzer.
2003 - He took Sasha Pavlovic. I wanted Josh Howard.
2004 - He took Kris Kardashian and Kirk Snyder. I wanted Snyder and Delonte West. Imagine those two with Sloan. I didn't know anything about he high school players. My bad.
2005 - He took Deron Williams. I didn't know if I wanted Williams or Chris Paul. I knew I didn't want Jarrett Jack or Gerald Green.
2006 - He took Ronnie Brewer, and that's who I wanted.
2007 - He took Mo Almond. I wanted Glen Davis.
2008 - He took Kosta Koufos. In that draft, Koufos was probably my guy. I really didn't care.
2009 - He took Eric Maynor (for OKC). I wanted Dejuan Blair.
2010 - He took Gordon Hayward. I wanted Xavier Henry.

I dont watch college ball, so I very rarely know the talents of prospective players. That said, it seems more and more cogent that Sloan and his "system" has held back this franchise immensely.

 

[franklin]

KOC is supposed to be the only GM to pluck the Redds, Malones, Rondos, Millsaps, Arenases, etc. out of obscurity. Kobe @ 13? Pshaw!

The Jazz should have taken all these extremely talented players who are now on teams that, on paper, look studly, but surprisingly, have losing records and staring at another top 8 pick.

How many good players are taken every year below the 12th or 14th spot? Jazz picked Maynor, Millsap, Brewer, etc. Hell, CJ was a 34th selection, and might have looked like an all-star in a Minnesota type club. DeShawn Stevenson was a 23rd spot gamble, and he's outlasted the later picks of his draft class. Mo Williams at 47 and lost to the expansion? Raul Lopez blew out his knees. I'm sure that was KOC's fault too. AK at 24, that late pick sucked too (contract blah, blah). Greg Ostertag, picked at 28, put in a nice career (contract blah, blah, blah).

Obscure players drop every year and come from nowhere to surprise the NBA. Jazz picked Millsap and found Matthews. Milwaukee got Michael Redd. Cleveland Boozer.

 

[akirac73]

AK at 24, that late pick sucked too (contract blah, blah). Greg Ostertag, picked at 28, put in a nice career (contract blah, blah, blah).

Fail.

AK was drafted in 1999...KOC's first draft was in 2000 when he picked Deshawn Stevenson. Greg Ostertag was drafted in 1995, 5 years before KOC even joined the Jazz organization.

 

[Hitman]

Our drafting record is pretty bad:

Number of first-round picks made by Utah since 1999 (when AK was drafted): 15
Number of these currently on Jazz roster: 3
Number of these currently on other NBA teams: 5 (Stevenson, Humphries, Brewer, Koufos, Maynor), plus our '98 first-round pick (Mohammed), plus a second-rounder (Mo Williams).

It's not just drafting where the front office fails, it's the level of "talent" accumulated over the years:

Current first-round picks on Jazz roster: 4 (Williams (3), Hayward (9), Jefferson (15), Kirilenko (24))
Current second-round picks on Jazz roster: 7 (Elson, Evans, Fesenko, Miles, Millsap, Okur, Watson)
Undrafted players on Jazz roster: 2 (Price, Bell)

Given 30 first-rounders and 30 second-rounders enter the league every season, I would expect the split to be at least 50-50, even before allowing for the fact there should be more first-rounders in the league than second-rounders. But no, we have managed to draft, sign, or trade for a team of afterthoughts and cast-offs.

 

[franklin]

Fail.

AK was drafted in 1999...KOC's first draft was in 2000 when he picked Deshawn Stevenson. Greg Ostertag was drafted in 1995, 5 years before KOC even joined the Jazz organization.

 

[freakazoid]

Excellent thread.

I have been saying for years how much better this team would be without Sloan and KOC.

I think we can all agree that the difference since Sloan retired is remarkable. Oh, sure, maybe it doesn't show win/loss wise, but I'm pretty sure I've seen a few more smiles on the player's face's after we lose.

Once KOC is gone, I expect even BIGGER smiles after we lose. KOC sucks.