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Earl Watson Commits to Sign!

default said:
Ha ha ha . . . . now THAT is funny stuff.
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Why because Bell is the proven veteran? CJ has way more talent than Bell and started to really put things together at the end of last season. I think CJ really breaks out this year, but I said that last year as well, so we shall see.
 
CJ has been a big tease. Really no telling where he'll be at development-wise.
I'd like to see Thompson make it too.
Not sure what's up with Fes; if the Cavs really want him, they got the $$$ to outbid us. I really don't see us matching anything over $2 mil, TBH. I'd offer them Price and Fes for a future 2nd rounder...
 
honz said:
Ball Handling - CJ
Passing - CJ
Creating off the Dribble - CJ
Finishing at the Rim - CJ
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If you'd added Rebounding, you would have listed all the things that Catch-n-Jack Miles *doesn't* do. CJ just catches and shoots, never drives, and as a result he had the second-lowest FTA/Min on the team, only ahead of Korver, and we know KK can't put the ball on the floor. But since Miles shoots less than .700 from the stripe, it's probably a good thing he doesn't get to the line very often. Korver also had more Reb/min and more Assists/min than Miles. And in Assists/Min, Miles was better than only one wing player - Matthews. In fact Miles' stats/min are superior to Matthews' in almost every category - which goes some way to explain why the Jazz refused to overpay for Wes - but are inferior to Korvers' across the board, except in Steals.

Where Miles and Matthews were better than Korver, though, is defence, something which stats doesn't capture. Similarly, Watson's per-minute stats are remarkably (and scarily) similar to those of Ronnie Price, but Watson would seem to be superior in the intangibles of running the offence and defence. At least we can hope.
 
Don't forget CJ is going for the most improved player award........not

Anyways, Bell will be a big asset to this team. I was sad to see him leave and extremely happy to see him back. I'm not sayin I don't like CJ but I would much rather have Bell.
 
Mantis said:
If you'd added Rebounding, you would have listed all the things that Catch-n-Jack Miles *doesn't* do. CJ just catches and shoots, never drives, and as a result he had the second-lowest FTA/Min on the team, only ahead of Korver, and we know KK can't put the ball on the floor. But since Miles shoots less than .700 from the stripe, it's probably a good thing he doesn't get to the line very often. Korver also had more Reb/min and more Assists/min than Miles. And in Assists/Min, Miles was better than only one wing player - Matthews. In fact Miles' stats/min are superior to Matthews' in almost every category - which goes some way to explain why the Jazz refused to overpay for Wes - but are inferior to Korvers' across the board, except in Steals.

Where Miles and Matthews were better than Korver, though, is defence, something which stats doesn't capture. Similarly, Watson's per-minute stats are remarkably (and scarily) similar to those of Ronnie Price, but Watson would seem to be superior in the intangibles of running the offence and defence. At least we can hope.
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Yes, he underperformed last year, but he really came on in the playoffs. And CJ Miles does far more than just catch and shoot. He is the only other player on our roster besides Deron that can actually run a pick and roll (well, maybe Watson and Hayward can), he is a very good passer off the dribble, and while he should probably attack the rim more often he is very effective when he does so. Oh yeah, and he is a career 77% FT shooter despite a terrible year last year from the line.

I realize he hasn't put it all together yet, but I think he is close. Just look at his playoffs stats where he played considerably better on both ends of the floor than he did in the regular season. 14.4 PPG, 44 FG%, 33 3P% (yes, these could be better), 3.9 FTA per game, 90 FT%, 2.8 APG. I see no reason why he can't put up similar numbers this year even if he doesn't get quite as many minutes as he got in the playoffs.
 
Is this thread about Watson or CJ? As for Watson, I'm not the biggest fan. Hopefully Watson isn't Knight redux, but it looks suspiciously the same. Old vet, declining for 2 straight seasons, and if he plays poorly Jerry will stick with him, anyway. All I care about is it's an open competition and that we haven't just given the job to him. But unless Watson had no other offers, and he might not have, then I wonder if he wasn't told he's the backup 2.
 
Watson is not playing a single minute at the 2. He's 6'1, not a great shooter, and nowhere close to as good as Derek Fisher, Raja Bell, Gordon Hayward, or CJ Miles.
 
honz said:
Ball Handling - CJ
Passing - CJ
Creating off the Dribble - CJ
Finishing at the Rim - CJ
Lack of Old Fartness - CJ
My Heart - CJ
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All of these things are rare for every wing player we have. Our offense doesn't give many opportunities for finishing at the rim or dribbling.

Passing I would say Bell is smarter. Miles is more creative but that is not what we ask of our wing players. We ask them to catch and shoot. Throw the ball into the post or to Deron. They rarely do those things that you think CJ is better at.

Trust me I love CJ. I am not even a hater. So i am not blinded by favoritism or hate. Also look at how well CJ played off the bench last year (averages).
https://www.nba.com/playerfile/cj_miles/season_splits.html

Because CJ has more creativity and can do more on the court that is why we should want him off the bench. Have CJ in the game when Deron is out. More players that can be play makers off the bench. Balance the bench and starters out. Miles should still get 30 minutes a night IMO.
He is utilized best off the bench though.
 
Twin Towers said:
All of these things are rare for every wing player we have. Our offense doesn't give many opportunities for finishing at the rim or dribbling.

Passing I would say Bell is smarter. Miles is more creative but that is not what we ask of our wing players. We ask them to catch and shoot. Throw the ball into the post or to Deron. They rarely do those things that you think CJ is better at.

Trust me I love CJ. I am not even a hater. So i am not blinded by favoritism or hate. Also look at how well CJ played off the bench last year (averages).
https://www.nba.com/playerfile/cj_miles/season_splits.html

Because CJ has more creativity and can do more on the court that is why we should want him off the bench. Have CJ in the game when Deron is out. More players that can be play makers off the bench. Balance the bench and starters out. Miles should still get 30 minutes a night IMO.
He is utilized best off the bench though.
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Most of what you said is true, but I highly doubt Sloan would frown upon CJ pump faking, driving to the rim and making a play for himself or others...which he is very capable of. I was fairly young when I watched Horny play, but I recall him dribbling into the paint and throwing up little floaters and his patented "Horny Heaves" quite often. I'm not sure we've had a fluid athlete with CJ's skills at the wing position in Utah in quite some time. Now he just need to turn those skills into efficient production on a nightly basis.

I do agree that CJ's best role may be to come off the bench, but I'm not sold that Bell is the better all around player for this Jazz team. A lot of that will depend on what Bell has left in the tank, and whether CJ can carry over his defensive intensity from the playoffs.
 
I'm skimming a little here, but is there really anyone who thinks Raja Bell is on the same level as CJ? No question Bell is going to give us good minutes. No question Bell is an excellent defender despite his advanced age. But Bell isn't half the player CJ is. He's half the athlete. That's true. CJ has plenty to prove but Bell couldn't dream of the ability CJ has. I could care less whether CJ starts or comes in off the bench as long as he gets 30 minutes.
 
Twin Towers said:
Corrected
Williams, Watson, Price
Bell, CJ, Hayward
AK, CJ, Hayward, Evans
Milsap, Jefferson, AK, Elson
Jefferson, Elson, Fes or another big, Okur

Jazz would not bring in Watson unless we felt he was the for sure back up point. Jerry hates playing Price at PG. He has said Price isn't a real point guard.

Bell is going to start. Jerry likes Bell more than CJ and AK. He is our best defender and best 3 point shooter from the wing position.

I think its up in the air for who is going to start between AK and CJ. Hopefully they actually look at last years stats and realize that AK is better starting and CJ is better off the bench.

The Jazz will most likely keep 14 this year. I think we will sign another wing player and Fesenko or another big.
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Can't argue too much with that. I think it's a toss up between CJ and Raja at SG. But the starter doesn't matter. Both of those guys should get 30 minutes, maybe Raja in the mid-20's to keep him fresh. There are so many variables to consider. Early on, maybe AK plays behind Millsap. That would free up more minutes for Hayward - if he's ready. But if Fesenko returns, Jerry would probably give mins to both Fes AND Elson, meaning Jefferson starts at the 5 and then plays the backup mins at PF.

In any case, I see Price riding the pine. Watson will play 12-15 mins/per behind Deron. In fact, we could even see them on the court together, like Sloan did with Maynor last year before the trade.
 
Pacers vs Celtics (NBA Highlights) 12/22/2009 (in Boston)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ50-XOvNw8

Most of the Pacer highlights are in the first half--understandably because the Pacers were leading in the first half by double digits. Watson looked really good. His passing is already way better than any of our backups. Watson had 18p 7r 6a 1s in the game. Yes, they lost, but honestly, is he really going to be playing the 4th quarter? Only if they play him and Deron at the same time. Maybe this is the thinking of the Jazz brass--use Deron much like he was used in the Olympics?
 
billyshelby said:
I'm skimming a little here, but is there really anyone who thinks Raja Bell is on the same level as CJ? No question Bell is going to give us good minutes. No question Bell is an excellent defender despite his advanced age. But Bell isn't half the player CJ is. He's half the athlete. That's true. CJ has plenty to prove but Bell couldn't dream of the ability CJ has. I could care less whether CJ starts or comes in off the bench as long as he gets 30 minutes.
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Noone questions CJ's ability on the offensive end, nor his athletic ability. CJ's problem--the reason they keep bringing in players like Bell in the first place--is that he can't guard anyone very well. Sure, he has his moments, but it's the exception not the rule. Plus, he isn't consistently tough. As Stockton and Malone both taught us, you don't have to be the highest leaper to be the most valuable out there on the court. Toughness and aggressiveness will win you more games than pure talent will.

A few quick reasons why, in my experience, this is true: First, if you assert your will on your opponent, you control the flow of the game and not the other way around. Second, the referees usually reward the more aggressive team with more foul calls against their opponent along with ignoring all the complaining the other team does. Third, as mentioned, the other team will start to complain--and will be less likely be back on defense--which translates into more easy baskets both in transition and in early offense.
 
billyshelby said:
As for Watson, I'm not the biggest fan. Hopefully Watson isn't Knight redux, but it looks suspiciously the same. Old vet, declining for 2 straight seasons...
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Solid point to explain why Knight wasn't quite the same player when he played for the Jazz. He was 33 the year he played for Utah, and has declined significantly from the year before. He actually had the worst season in his career before coming to Utah, well below his career averages. So he was clearly on the way down, but the hope was he had enough in his tank for 1 more year. Unfortunately he didn't.

Now, Watson is older vet too, but he is not 33 this year, but 31. Still over 30, but 2 years do make a big difference. Knight was actually quite productive when he was 31. Also, Watson actually had a better year last year than the one before - and right in line with his career averages, unlike Knight, whose last season was FAR worse than the one before, and well below career averages. So, while Knight's and Watson's situations seem similar, there are some big differences that suggest that unlike Knight, Watson has a much better likelihood of having enough in the tank this year to be very productive.

Knight's performance was clearly on the way down at 33, while Watson at 31 seems to be performing on par with what he's always done. And that is a big upgrade over Price and turns our back-up PG situation from weakness into strength. Excellent move by KOC, no doubt.
 
honz said:
Most of what you said is true, but I highly doubt Sloan would frown upon CJ pump faking, driving to the rim and making a play for himself or others...which he is very capable of. I was fairly young when I watched Horny play, but I recall him dribbling into the paint and throwing up little floaters and his patented "Horny Heaves" quite often. I'm not sure we've had a fluid athlete with CJ's skills at the wing position in Utah in quite some time. Now he just need to turn those skills into efficient production on a nightly basis.

I do agree that CJ's best role may be to come off the bench, but I'm not sold that Bell is the better all around player for this Jazz team. A lot of that will depend on what Bell has left in the tank, and whether CJ can carry over his defensive intensity from the playoffs.
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No I doubt Sloan would frown upon CJ for doing that unless Deron is in the game. He hates seeing players create for themselves out of the offensive flow.

Raja Bell complements Deron more in my opinion. Because he is a spot up shooter and comes off screens really well. CJ is more creative and he is a better all around player but he is not on the same level as Raja with shooting and man to man defense (against SG's). I know Raja is old but he will surprise everyone this year. Bruce Bowen was his age when he was in his prime. Raja's career started late justl like Bowens.
I would prefer to give CJ more opportunities to create for himself and others. And the only way to do that is to have him come off the bench. Make sure he is in the game when Deron is out. it will only be about 12 minutes but that comes along way for CJ. He is very streaky. Streaky shooters are best off the bench. Raja will be more consistent.
 
When I was looking at Watson's stats I saw something that I liked. Last year he averaged a career high 29.4 mpg. Although his stats were down compared to this other career high's I think its attributed that to him playing for the awfull pacers. Its hard to get assists when your team cant score. What I liked about that is it shows that the coaches had alot of confidence in him. 29.4 mpg is 6th man minutes. He has always been a pass first point gaurd, which is good for our back up. He was a solid three point shooter up untill about three years ago, so hopefully in a front court heavy roster like ours he will get some open looks and regain some confidence. Watson is a great pick-up, mark my words friends at the end of the day we will be glad we have him.
 
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