Early pulse check on offseason expectations

[HermanG]

I want to test the pulse of what people think we should do next offseason.

For the sake of this argument, lets say that all options above are on the table and the FO can choose between any of them, and none of them are unreasonable to achieve. This means for example that the "big splash trade" is someone you like and think fits with our current group. So its not about "who is gonna be out there", or "what if Lauri doesnt want to re-sign"... but more about what you would prefer the FO to aim for.

For the second lowest option I didnt define which player you would want to hold on to, but you can choose whichever. Its sort of hard to enter a deeper tank if you dont sell either one though unless you surround them with non NBA-level players, so maybe the idea there would be that you can keep 1 of the 2 around.

Hopefully everyone finds a suitable option. I know some people like myself would probably choose 2 paths and are pretty indifferent between which one they prefer, but I feel like allowing people to select 2 options is not a good pulse check.

 

[HermanG]

I'm sort of hesitantly in the win-now column. Reason I'm hesitant is that I think we have scaled down on usable parts that we can put around Lauri and whoever we would get to pair him with. So assuming we have to give some of our few good players away in the trade, it would probably also require spending more assets on additional reinforcements.

But I would just hate not ever having a chance to make a run with this core who has already shown a lot of resilience and desire to win. If we traded Lauri and Sexton away, we would be looking at 4 years minimum with no guarantees of quality basketball in the nearby future.

 

[Tanktastic]

If the big splash trade is there, why on earth wouldn't you do it? That's been the whole point of gathering all the picks. After that, it's much easier to find compementary pieces.

 

[Shad]

I really wished it was "tear it all down last year, try for Victor, suck again this year if needed, and be done." .... but, we're "lie to the players and fans about what we're doing, play better than expected for 2 years, gut the team for horrible picks, and continue telling the players and fans the same thing every season thus far." I'm not saying there hasn't been good games or basketball.

What I'm hoping for and what I'd want are 2 different things.

I'm hoping they can get Lauri to sign longer and get him, and our other players, some actual help. Kessler has about 10% confidence in his offensive game. It looks like he would rather go up soft or attempt a weak layup and get blocked than go up strong for contact. We need defensive needs immediately. THT, Clarkson, and probably Collins (although, I don't think it's all his fault) need to go. I don't think it's possible to move Clarkson or Collins easily.

What I wish happened is what I said. Sucked last year and this year properly. Got 2 top 5 picks and go from there. I sadly do believe if you can get Giddey and 4 picks from okc for Lauri, you take it. We now tank hard for the next 2 years for flag and boozer. Hopefully, hit on 1, and build from that.

These last 2 years have been a complete waste from FO side and do believe they've been feeding the fans and players BS

 

[Peter_Mentor]

I'm somewhere between the second and third option. I would like to see us trade Clarkson, sweeteners and picks for a player who would be good enough to be a starting five player on a championship team. Maybe even the third best player, in the category of Mikal Bridges. Of course, the deal would require a third party since the Nets have no use for Clarkson.

However, IMO the best window to get rid of John Collins is a year from now in the summer. In the summer of 2025, I would try to trade a bucketful of picks, maybe Collin Sexton or a promising young player that we'll hopefully have at that point and John Collins as a salary filler for a superstar level player.

But this is all just my wishful thinking. The proposal would fail due to the following problems:

Does it make sense to try to get another all star level player before a true superstar? Should we rather suck next season, get another lottery pick in a better draft and try to make the big splash in the summer of 2025?

And the biggest issue: what if there is no big splashes available in 2025?

 

[Maneesh]

I'm somewhere between the second and third option. I would like to see us trade Clarkson, sweeteners and picks for a player who would be good enough to be a starting five player on a championship team. Maybe even the third best player, in the category of Mikal Bridges. Of course, the deal would require a third party since the Nets have no use for Clarkson.

However, IMO the best window to get rid of John Collins is a year from now in the summer. In the summer of 2025, I would try to trade a bucketful of picks, maybe Collin Sexton and John Collins as a salary filler for a superstar level player.

But this is all just my wishful thinking. The proposal would fail due to the following problems:

Does it make sense to try to get another all star level player before a true superstar? Should we rather suck next season, get another lottery pick in a better draft and try to make the big splash in the summer of 2025?

And the biggest issue: what if there is no big splashes available in 2025?

I believe in Jazz hero’s not negative thought. Danny Ainge is legendary assassin not lieds.

 

[HermanG]

I really wished it was "tear it all down last year, try for Victor, suck again this year if needed, and be done." .... but, we're "lie to the players and fans about what we're doing, play better than expected for 2 years, gut the team for horrible picks, and continue telling the players and fans the same thing every season thus far." I'm not saying there hasn't been good games or basketball.

What I'm hoping for and what I'd want are 2 different things.

I'm hoping they can get Lauri to sign longer and get him, and our other players, some actual help. Kessler has about 10% confidence in his offensive game. It looks like he would rather go up soft or attempt a weak layup and get blocked than go up strong for contact. We need defensive needs immediately. THT, Clarkson, and probably Collins (although, I don't think it's all his fault) need to go. I don't think it's possible to move Clarkson or Collins easily.

What I wish happened is what I said. Sucked last year and this year properly. Got 2 top 5 picks and go from there. I sadly do believe if you can get Giddey and 4 picks from okc for Lauri, you take it. We now tank hard for the next 2 years for flag and boozer. Hopefully, hit on 1, and build from that.

These last 2 years have been a complete waste from FO side and do believe they've been feeding the fans and players BS

I think if they enter the deep tank now they actually can justify the last 2 years as they built up value for the guys who they got from those trades and can cash in on that value. I mean if Lauri and Sexton would combine to draw 1 promising young sophomore (like Cason Wallace) and 4 FRPs, then the Cavs haul would turn into something legendary. I think there is reason to assume that they would draw more than that.

Also if they start to build up, they have maintained some flexibility and kept/increased assets to make moves. But here the Collins deal will hurt them, unless they can easily ship him out in a build up move.

I think they are in position to pivot either way. What I'm not sure is how much longer they can stay in the middle ground before too many contract dates start to come up. Lauri's next deal will eat a lot of flexibility going forward at the very least, and Sexton also deserves a raise after next 2 years if he keeps his current level up and we want to keep him.

 

[HermanG]

If the big splash trade is there, why on earth wouldn't you do it? That's been the whole point of gathering all the picks. After that, it's much easier to find compementary pieces.

I also hope for this option, but its more of "choice of heart" than the sensible option. I'm very aware of some issues related to it, the two major ones being:

• Even if they would take just picks and salary (mainly Collins), how many other guys we need to add to complete the roster and hone the edges? Has to be at least 2 more good players coming in.
• If the other team wants more than picks we are in even deeper hole... as the previous issue becomes even bigger and who do even we have that are good enough to be featured players in a star trade?

Its almost for sure that either Kessler or Keyonte needs to be included in a trade if the other team wants more than just picks.

 

[LogGrad98]

**** or get off the pot.. So I'm torn between ******** and getting off the pot.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

You can do multiple things at once

 

[Step-Back Lauri]

I want Jazz splash for Trae Young and Deni Avdija, but I think they will tank. Pick 2-3 wings off the draft, FA or trades, send off JC and THT for the least. If Jazz is going to suck, at least have minutes for rookies than sign good ≠great players, win more than expected, and then cut them again. Either go big or just minor tweaks. In between actions will just repeat this Danny Ainge circus show.

Also, re-sign Dunn.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

I’m genuinely pissed that Clarkson is still on the team

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Clarkson is a good dude and all, but I just hate watching him play basketball

 

[SoberasHotRod]

First priority is to extend Lauri. If he won't extend then the choice is pretty easy, tear it down and go for a top pick in the 2025 draft.

If he does extend, then I think we owe it to him to push in and build a winning team around him. That could just mean putting a team that makes sense together vs value hunting. It might not mean adding a huge star.

Whatever the case, no more straddling the line, no more value hunting.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Right now it looks pretty obvious Keyonte/Lauri/Walker are the 3 most important long-term pieces.

The Jazz need to prioritize maximizing Sexton's value for the eventual sale. After this season Sexton will have two years left, so if you want to maximize his value in the trade, this upcoming off-season is the one to do it.

Trading Sexton will be tough because I still think is league rep probably drags down his value. It would be tough to trade him for anything less than excellent return for how well he is playing, but is that return out there on the market? IDK.

Also, figure out how to get off Collins if you can. Still wouldnt pay to dump him, but hopefully you can use his salary to upgrade to a starter caliber wing or 2-guard where the price of dumping Collins is baked into the cost.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

First priority is to extend Lauri. If he won't extend then the choice is pretty easy, tear it down and go for a top pick in the 2025 draft.

If he does extend, then I think we owe it to him to push in and build a winning team around him.

The idea that Danny Ainge would ever feel like he "owes" something to Lauri is hilarious.

IMO Ainge knows he won't see a championship run with the Jazz. He's too old. He gets his late-stage kicks from playing the value hunting game, ****ing over other FO's in trades and hoarding picks.

 

[Nate505]

They need to start using those ****ing "assets" and do something with them.

**** tanking, it's garbage and doesn't even work.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The idea that Danny Ainge would ever feel like he "owes" something to Lauri is hilarious.

IMO Ainge knows he won't see a championship run with the Jazz. He's too old. He gets his late-stage kicks from playing the value hunting game, ****ing over other FO's in trades and hoarding picks.

This makes me kinda sad... cuz I think it might be close to the truth.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

They need to start using those ****ing "assets" and do something with them.

**** tanking, it's garbage and doesn't even work.

Tanking works. Its not fool proof but it works.

 

[Fosto]

Either trade away Lauri and Sexton and tank properly, or use up the mountain of picks the Jazz have to start building a contender. These half measures where you end up with the 10th pick suck.