Early Start on Predictions for 2015-2016 - Gordon Hayward
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Jamezz
Well-Known Member
Another highly interesting and insightful counter argument from our #1 Hayward fanboy. Is that really all you have?
RandyForRubio
Well-Known Member
Giannis will probably be a good player, but he's still scared to take open jump shots.
Is he ever going to be a guy who averages 19/5/4 as pretty much the only offensive option on a team without a PG? I doubt it.
Is he ever going to be a guy who averages 19/5/4 as pretty much the only offensive option on a team without a PG? I doubt it.
Jamezz
Well-Known Member
Please get back with me in a couple years with that will ya, could be a good laugh.
RandyForRubio
Well-Known Member
Oh I'm sorry, I thought we were using facts and hard data, not speculation. Foolish me.
Jamezz
Well-Known Member
Says the guy who breaks in labeling my opinion as a 'dumbass view'.
RandyForRubio
Well-Known Member
68% of Giannis' shots were from less than 10 feet. He's a nice player, but who the hell on our team would score sans Hayward? Could Hood handle defenses scheming against him? I mean, it's ridiculous how much you dislike Hayward
Jamezz
Well-Known Member
Are we going to win a Championship next year? Scoring is yet not too relevant, we'll get there. I think what Giannis can offer in terms of 'having it' is more exciting, gut feeling. And I don't dislike Hayward, I just think that he might compromise the team's plans for the future in terms of economic/play value. About Giannis' shot range I'm not any more worried than I am about Exum 'shortening' his shot range, to 0 feet to be more precise. But both Exum and Giannis finding a balance in their games would be deadly, phew!
RandyForRubio
Well-Known Member
Scoring is pretty damn relevant.
Look, Giannis is a nice player, but he's averaging 15% on 0.6 3-point shots a game, there's not much to indicate he'll ever even be an average outside shooter. Furthermore, even if he does turn out as good as you think he will, he'll command a max contract and "compromise" our future, as you seem to think.
And if we did get him, we have a lineup with Rudy, Favors and Giannis in our frontcourt, with Favors showing the most range out of those three. To say we would have a clogged up lane would be a massive understatement.
I just don't think you appreciate how good, and how much Hayward does for this team. He was the only player outside of Hood late in the season who could create any offense. Outside of Hood, our only decent outside shooter. Our only player who could create shots for himself. We don't have anybody who can do what Hayward does.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
I'd be happy with those numbers. I'm hoping he gets a bit more rest with a deeper wing rotation. He was worn out by the end of the year. With better PG play assists might go down. And Gobert gobbles up all the boards. Better 3PT shooting is what would really help the Jazz.
Douchebag K
Well-Known Member
I agree with this 100%
hawkeye
Well-Known Member
I'm not going to disagree about the hype surrounding the greek freak. Dude is loaded with potential and could turn out to be a star. Hayward is already at the borderline all star level, and has shown that he has a desire to improve every season.
Would a trade between the two be interesting? Very! I could see the Bucks doing it because they are already a playoff team and are looking to win now. I just think it would be a dumb move for both teams. We are on the brink of breaking out as contenders, and they have the greek freak locked on the cheap for the next 3 years. Why would they give up on someone with that potential, and why would we give up a guy who has helped carry us and is already a top 5 SF in the league with room to improve?
I think your best bet is to root for the Bucks if you have that big of a crush on the guy.
Jamezz
Well-Known Member
Your analysis strengthens my posture. The Bucks consider him very valuable yes, he must be that good. That's why I'm saying it wouldn't hurt going after him. He has a better chance of being our needed #1 offensive option than Hayward imo. But hey I'll root for the Jazz nonetheless. If we roll with Hayward that's fine, what kind of empty statement is just saying 'go root for the other team' just because I like one of their players?
It's just another trade idea like the many others that get posted on this board. Oh I see, it involves the 'chosen one'...
NAOS
Well-Known Member
srs, how often do you act like a dog and eat your own ****?
hawkeye
Well-Known Member
Calm down, friend. I'm not attacking. I also root for the Wizards because I love John Wall. Same with the Warriors and Curry. I just know that neither one would ever be on our team, so I have to enjoy their game by rooting for them (unless playing against the Jazz).
Also, yes I am a fan of Hayward and I think he is damn good. However I would not be opposed to trading him, but only for a proven star. I wouldn't trade him at this point on potential.
RandyForRubio
Well-Known Member
Hold up...a SF who doesn't shoot the ball outside of 10 feet has a better chance to be our #1 scoring option than a player who is already averaging 19 a game without much help?
Well ****, that sounds reasonable to me.
Well ****, that sounds reasonable to me.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
You've been given numbers and facts to explain Hayward. So maybe u should just give one pare of facts and numbers to explain that blanket statement regarding your opinion that the GF would be a better #1 option for the jazz, or even that he can be a #1 option for anyone.
Can u with out looking like a complete moran?
Jamezz
Well-Known Member
Here are both players stats in their 1st year:
Stats in their 2nd year:
And stats in their 2 1st years combined:
As you can see Gordon's eFG% is higher than Giannis', this is the key stat for evaluating a player's production in offense. But what I'm interested in is the progress from one year to the next. We can see that Hayward's eFG% was better then Giannis' by 0.081 in their 1st year. In their 2nd year Gordon's eFG% dropped and Giannis' improved, cutting it to a ridiculous 0.007 behind Hayward, basically the same production among both players. Remember eFG%, this is 2pt and 3pt shots combined. And shooting is fortunately an area that can be developed with practice and teaching.
Another thing that catches my eye, check their 'Per Game' stats in their 2 1st years combined. As you can see Giannis leads in Pts, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks. So all of this stat-wise, then there's the eye test. Giannis is visibly a physical prowess, his body form reminds me of that from KD. His driving to the basket is already more efficient and aggressive as seen in the Off rebounds stat. Add this to the fact that his shot will improve under the guidance of our development centered coach. There's my 2 cents for the case.
But again, if we keep Hayward yes he's a good player and could still get us very far. I just want the best for the Jazz.
Stats in their 2nd year:
And stats in their 2 1st years combined:
As you can see Gordon's eFG% is higher than Giannis', this is the key stat for evaluating a player's production in offense. But what I'm interested in is the progress from one year to the next. We can see that Hayward's eFG% was better then Giannis' by 0.081 in their 1st year. In their 2nd year Gordon's eFG% dropped and Giannis' improved, cutting it to a ridiculous 0.007 behind Hayward, basically the same production among both players. Remember eFG%, this is 2pt and 3pt shots combined. And shooting is fortunately an area that can be developed with practice and teaching.
Another thing that catches my eye, check their 'Per Game' stats in their 2 1st years combined. As you can see Giannis leads in Pts, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks. So all of this stat-wise, then there's the eye test. Giannis is visibly a physical prowess, his body form reminds me of that from KD. His driving to the basket is already more efficient and aggressive as seen in the Off rebounds stat. Add this to the fact that his shot will improve under the guidance of our development centered coach. There's my 2 cents for the case.
But again, if we keep Hayward yes he's a good player and could still get us very far. I just want the best for the Jazz.
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RandyForRubio
Well-Known Member
Interesting how his shot is regressing to the point where he doesn't even shoot anymore. That's really strange.
Crawlnstall
Well-Known Member
If Hayward can stay more consistent he'll be an All Star. Dude is a near All Star as it is now. With the team getting a full offseason with Quin I don't expect opposing teams to focus so much on Hayward like they have in the past. Hood, Exum, Favors, Burks and Gobert should all improve on offense giving much more space for Hayward