Enes Kanter's National Team Participation

[addictionary]

Kanter is going to have a good NBA career whether or not he plays for Turkey. I guarantee that Kanter learned more this season, then he did in all the time he spent playing in Turkey past.

I wasn't talking about playing for Turkey obviously. He really is into improving his game as much as anyone I know. And hopefully he will work with the right people like Grover and become something that we can't estimate even now.


And totally yeah. He had near no pro experience as a basketball player before he came to NBA. Talk about some numbers, his pro experience was 88 minutes combined at that time if I'm not mistaken. And then Lithuania with NT. He mostly played in young teams, under 19 NT, Stoneridge prep and Nike hoop summit.

 

[addictionary]

Turkey is refusing to let him play. Kanter has no option for this season at least.

Turkey's refusal is open ended.

Erdenay said that it is mainly because he doesn't want the other players who sweated in the qualification round to get Turkey up there in the tournament get offended, he thinks it will be unfair to them. That is why I agree with him. Consider yourself getting benched by a player who only needed to pick up the phone and say "I need to work individually. Sorry I can't come. I know I promised to come but I'm more than behind my schedule in my career and I need to work out" but instead didn't pick it up and let his cocky agent answer with "Enes is not coming. Stop calling."

And don't forget, Erdenay also said that Enes will obviously participate in the further NT's. Just not this one to avoid other players get offended.

Enes is one of the players that could become maybe the best Turkish basketball player ever to play it up to day. If he treasures his potential. He's doing pretty good with it. I hope his acceleration with his improvement never stops for at least 3-4 years.

 

[Tarkanian]

I strongly deny any insuniations that Turks are more nationalistic (=racist) than other nations; American,Arab, Armenian etc.
I have law degrees from foreign schools, have had my share of inter-cultural interations and experience.
What I have seen is that we are no different from (and not superior to) the other children of Adam.
we love, we live, we die...
I used an in appropriate language and I apologize for that.
But I denied only the allegation that NT needs EK.
No, NTs don't need individuals.
It is an honour and a privilege and fun to play for NT.
Either u accept the invitation and play or you go and screw those hobos on Venice beach...
just don't make fuss bout it

 

[Mr. McGibblets]

I strongly deny any insuniations that Turks are more nationalistic (=racist) than other nations; American,Arab, Armenian etc.
I have law degrees from foreign schools, have had my share of inter-cultural interations and experience.
What I have seen is that we are no different from (and not superior to) the other children of Adam.
we love, we live, we die...
I used an in appropriate language and I apologize for that.
But I denied only the allegation that NT needs EK.
No, NTs don't need individuals.
It is an honour and a privilege and fun to play for NT.
Either u accept the invitation and play or you go and screw those hobos on Venice beach...
just don't make fuss bout it

Okay. Maybe it's not nationalism. Let's just call it arrogance then. Whatever it is, you guys act like he owes you something because he played pro ball there for a bit. He was born outside of Turkey, played ball for 3 years in Turkey between 2006-2009 and then moved to the U.S. He then declines an invitation to join the NT for a period, and you are all still butt hurt that he didn't accept the honor and privilege so you don't invite him this year yet still talk about it.

Get over yourselves. My first comment was a tasteless joke. Your reactions solidified the tone behind it though - you guys come off sounding like whiny entitled babies in this situation. I have met a lot of Turks and have enjoyed all of them. I enjoy all the posts by the Turks here on the board (except for this NT/Enes stuff). I have never visited Turkey, but would like to. The land/architecture looks beautiful, the people look beautiful, the food sounds wonderful, and the people sound very warm, friendly, and inviting. But your obsession with your NT and the drama surrounding it just comes off so pathetic.

EDIT: "you" and "you guys" is directed towards Tark and a couple other posters - not all Turkish posters or Turks.

 

[Tarkanian]

your observations are way off.
your allusions are thinly veiled attacks and ad hominem fallacies at best.
I see, there is no sense talking some sense to you,
so I stop here, for I know your type.
Though I may be a bit stacked up for this kind of exchanges, I could have stooped to your level and show what you are really made up of.
BUT THANKS I will pass, for I have a life.
I come and read my fellow JAZZFANZ' comments abot the team I have loved since time immemorable, and I will keep on just doing that.
If you and some other low-life has a beef of political or racial nature, GO SOMEWHERE else please.
Thank you in advance
Tark the Shark, Ph.d

 

[addictionary]

your observations are way off.
your allusions are thinly veiled attacks and ad hominem fallacies at best.
I see, there is no sense talking some sense to you,
so I stop here, for I know your type.
Though I may be a bit stacked up for this kind of exchanges, I could have stooped to your level and show what you are really made up of.
BUT THANKS I will pass, for I have a life.
I come and read my fellow JAZZFANZ' comments abot the team I have loved since time immemorable, and I will keep on just doing that.
If you and some other low-life has a beef of political or racial nature, GO SOMEWHERE else please.
Thank you in advance
Tark the Shark, Ph.d

Made me recall this. Lol.

 

[Mr. McGibblets]

your observations are way off.
your allusions are thinly veiled attacks and ad hominem fallacies at best.
I see, there is no sense talking some sense to you,
so I stop here, for I know your type.
Though I may be a bit stacked up for this kind of exchanges, I could have stooped to your level and show what you are really made up of.
BUT THANKS I will pass, for I have a life.
I come and read my fellow JAZZFANZ' comments abot the team I have loved since time immemorable, and I will keep on just doing that.
If you and some other low-life has a beef of political or racial nature, GO SOMEWHERE else please.
Thank you in advance
Tark the Shark, Ph.d

I'm glad you've taken the high road in all of this.

I don't really care if he plays for the NT or not. I have zero beef or skin in this game, nor do I have any political or racial message I'm trying to get across. I like every poster in this thread and have nothing against anyone here. This is obviously a situation the non-Turks have a hard time relating to so don't be surprised when we view it differently or think some of you are overreacting. Relax.

 

[Sandy Braille]

I'm glad you've taken the high road in all of this.

I don't really care if he plays for the NT or not. I have zero beef or skin in this game, nor do I have any political or racial message I'm trying to get across. I like every poster in this thread and have nothing against anyone here. This is obviously a situation the non-Turks have a hard time relating to so don't be surprised when we view it differently or think some of you are overreacting. Relax.

I can kinda feel for the Turks here, McGib.


I know where I come from, if the athletes don't play for their national team it is as if you dodged the draft in the Second World War.


National pride in ethnically nationalistic countries is simply....different in the states than it is in places like Europe...Asia....or Eurasia in this instance.


Particularly with Turkey, and their fairly successful sports teams. Fenerbahce. Galatasaray. Turkish soccer team in Euro 2008. Turkish Soccer team in the 2002 World Cup I believe. Various Turkish basketball teams throughout the 2000s. All very successful, with mammoth fan-backings.


Sports are EXTREMELY synonymous with national pride there. It's the same with my ancestors as well.


Although this disgust with Kanter's behaviour may seem dumb from the perspective of the Western world, when you look at it from their perspective, and their cultures, it makes more sense.


Just some food for thought.

 

[Sandy Braille]

your observations are way off.
your allusions are thinly veiled attacks and ad hominem fallacies at best.
I see, there is no sense talking some sense to you,
so I stop here, for I know your type.
Though I may be a bit stacked up for this kind of exchanges, I could have stooped to your level and show what you are really made up of.
BUT THANKS I will pass, for I have a life.
I come and read my fellow JAZZFANZ' comments abot the team I have loved since time immemorable, and I will keep on just doing that.
If you and some other low-life has a beef of political or racial nature, GO SOMEWHERE else please.
Thank you in advance
Tark the Shark, Ph.d

Don't get too upset, Tark. Mr. McGibblets is one of the most respectful, well-meaning posters on this board.


It is hard for some of us to understand the passion behind all of those Soccer club riots, and heavyweight basketball bouts between Lithuania and Turkey, or soccer matches between Germany and Turkey. They supersede simple sports rivalries.

The Celtics vs. the Lakers simply is on a different echelon than something like Croatia vs. Serbia. Or Greece vs. Turkey. Or Scotland vs. England. etc, etc.

 

[Mr. McGibblets]

I can kinda feel for the Turks here, McGib.


I know where I come from, if the athletes don't play for their national team it is as if you dodged the draft in the Second World War.


National pride in ethnically nationalistic countries is simply....different in the states than it is in places like Europe...Asia....or Eurasia in this instance.


Particularly with Turkey, and their fairly successful sports teams. Fenerbahce. Galatasaray. Turkish soccer team in Euro 2008. Turkish Soccer team in the 2002 World Cup I believe. Various Turkish basketball teams throughout the 2000s. All very successful, with mammoth fan-backings.


Sports are EXTREMELY synonymous with national pride there. It's the same with my ancestors as well.


Although this disgust with Kanter's behaviour may seem dumb from the perspective of the Western world, when you look at it from their perspective, and their cultures, it makes more sense.


Just some food for thought.

Good points. I realize people are upset and that it is a big thing to turn down NT play. I'm English so I realize how important sport can be to a country. But I just thought some of the statements in the thread were unreasonable. I read back through this thread and there are only a couple posts that made me roll my eyes. So I apologize for painting with a broad brush. It wasn't the concept that they were upset - I understand that. But what bothered me was the idea that Kanter owes them and the way some posters attacked those who disagreed. That's what I thought made (these specific posters, not all Turks) sound like whiny d-bags.

I enjoy all the Turkish posters and enjoyed their posts and perspectives here. I just found some of the posts over the top:

screw you cockbreath and this rant of yours, too.
It is an honour and privilege to play for the NT!
If you think otherwise, well you don't belong!
Dirk the Diggler for example always played for his NT!
If E. Kanter has your line of thinking; screw that cocky piece of ****, as well.

what he is doing is plain bad karma for a youngster like himself.

Did u know a word like allegiance? How u think Kanter selected as a 3rd pick? Does he have any team career before Jazz? Turkey raised him, gave opportunity to play basketball and he had a chance to show his skills to get selected for the drafts...It was big mistake and all NT has gotta have principles over players so Kanter made a mistake and behaved like spoiled child.

Thanks for the response Sandy.

 

[addictionary]

It does not make sense to compare the America's reaction against an attack with what happened to Armenians, Kurds and other nations of Asia Minor in history. Additionally, I should say that ethnicity matters a lot in Turkey in spite of people like you are denying it immediately. Turkey's relation with her own citizen Orhan Pamuk, who gave an interview to a Journal in Europe and received immediate pressure from Turkey on every level is just one example.

I wasn't referring to the Armenians or the Kurds but referring to the conscience of the society being under extreme pressure all the time. And considering the government in force right now that is obviously against nationalism and maybe even the nation itself like a trojan horse, I can see why we are more sensitive about national issues than any other time. Pamuk issue is not an example to racist reaction. He made a populist cringing statement on a really sensitive and polemical matter to earn the favor of the Nobel jury or whoever are behind them. Whatever info runs through the world on Armenian issue and Kurd issue of Turkey is extremely one-sided and propaganda-based, and you always hear that one because Turkey does not have the influence over the world as these societies or their benefactors have, just try not to forget that.

 

[CAKAR]

I just now about positive racisim in Turkey. Especially when it comes to black people. When you are black, you will always get attention and love in turkey. Don´t ask me why...

 

[jazzfan32]

I wasn't referring to the Armenians or the Kurds but referring to the conscience of the society being under extreme pressure all the time. And considering the government in force right now that is obviously against nationalism and maybe even the nation itself like a trojan horse, I can see why we are more sensitive about national issues than any other time. Pamuk issue is not an example to racist reaction. He made a populist cringing statement on a really sensitive and polemical matter to earn the favor of the Nobel jury or whoever are behind them. Whatever info runs through the world on Armenian issue and Kurd issue of Turkey is extremely one-sided and propaganda-based, and you always hear that one because Turkey does not have the influence over the world as these societies or their benefactors have, just try not to forget that.

Who would be the society whose consciuousness would attempt to act against Kurds, Armenians and other nations of Asia Minor? Do they have anything to compare with 9/11 attacks? Your comments does not make sense to me.

I know that AKP is trying to deal with a series of crimes including what has been done to the journalist Hrant Dink, massacre of christians in Zirve publishing etc in the last ten years. These are apparently tied with the nationalists that you are trying to back up. Additionally, there is an open trial Ergenekon - an organization related to these nationalists. But these events don't give me any clue that you would be more sensitive on these nationalist issues.

To my knowledge, Orhan Pamuk gave this interview about 10 years ago or so, it must be before he received a Nobel prize. In his interview he mentioned "it is a crime in Turkey to talk about one and a half million Armenians and thirty thousand Kurds killed by Turks". Thereafter, he received increasing angst from the Turks - this might be the nationalistic sensitivity you are talking about. I have seen a few documentaries in which an 18-20 year old male were threatening him "Orhan Pamuk should be careful on what he is doing!". Mr. Pamuk is currently living in USA anyway, occasionally going back to Turkey.

Orhan Pamuk was not the only one at that time being threatened by this nationalistic pressure; but people like Perihan Magden and Elif Safak were also having a hard time. So, your attempt to make his interview as a populist does really not hold at all. A person would not risk his life to make a populist comment...

Armenian and Kurdish history are not one sided or propaganda based. On the contrary, they are all very well documented and you can find many resources if you are living outside Turkey. It is the Turks who are making propaganda and playing games.

Anyway, I don't have too much to really care about this nationalistic nature of Turks who are currently living in Asia Minor. I would normally post comments on Jazz basketball and I don't really see a reason to respond to your illogical comments.

 

[jjscap]

I think Kanter made the right decision to stay in the US this summer to work on his body and train with his team. We all see how effective that has been. He was the best performer in 5 out of 7 Utah's preseason games. During the regular season he exceeded expectations in every game started or got substantial PT. Being a big in the NBA especially if you're coming from Europe is incredibly tough, and this year was so crucial for him. You can't blame him for trying to get more NBA-ready.

Now Turkish NT decides not to invite him to Euro C'ship. Why? Because other scrubs take offense? WTH? This is the NBA's #3 draft pick and Turkish NT's best talent by far. And Kanter is not a spoiled brat or something. He has strong work ethics, is a good team player.

I am Turk too looking forward to seeing Kanter in red uniform and forming one of the strongest frontcourts in the world with Omer Asik for the years to come but this decision is not very smart at all. Very vivid example of eastern way of thinking. You get basically nothing by that but lose much.

 

[NUMBERICA]

How in the hell are oppressed peoples - including a nationless one - going to be better at making their case through PROPAGANDA? Every shred of deductive reasoning would suggest that their entire case would have to be built on truth as they don't have anywhere near the resources of their enemies. That's besides all of the objective information that makes Turkeys actions through the years look horrific. What is the other side that isn't being told? What action could be done by some of a people to deserve wholesale slaughter on a staggering scale indiscriminately carried against all of its people? Or is this to the point that many Turks deny 1917 happened or what has been happening in its own southeast for... let's just say a very long time.

Have loyalty for what's right and **** the rest. Friends, family, community, ethnicity. Just be on the side doing right (or the least wrong).

 

[Tarkanian]

How in the hell are oppressed peoples - including a nationless one - going to be better at making their case through PROPAGANDA? Every shred of deductive reasoning would suggest that their entire case would have to be built on truth as they don't have anywhere near the resources of their enemies. That's besides all of the objective information that makes Turkeys actions through the years look horrific. What is the other side that isn't being told? What action could be done by some of a people to deserve wholesale slaughter on a staggering scale indiscriminately carried against all of its people? Or is this to the point that many Turks deny 1917 happened or what has been happening in its own southeast for... let's just say a very long time.

Have loyalty for what's right and **** the rest. Friends, family, community, ethnicity. Just be on the side doing right (or the least wrong).

that is called nation-building Sir.
Every emerging nation requires a "other",a demon, if you like!
Armenians abroad have been using these genocide claims to mobilize their youth, hoping that they will not be assimilated in their host countries.
On another note; what happened in 1917?
did you mean 1915?
Armenians were butchered Numberica, noone -including sucessive Turkish governments- is denying this!
There was mass-killings, guilty as charged!
BUT
these were not one-sided as you guys believe!
Besides, there was no law in 1915 defining the crime, we call genocide since 1948.
If 1915 events had happened in 2003 I'd tend to label this situation a genocide or at least a crime against humanity, committed by BOTH sides. (at least C.A.H.)
But you cannot apply law retrospectively and judge people.
If you do that, you guys, Amerians i.e. have to be responsible for the killing of millions of Indians in about a hundred years till 1650!
"It is estimated that at least forty million indigenous peoples lived
in these lands when European explorers and settlers found their ways
to our shores. Fewer than ten million of those forty million indigenous
Americans remained in 1650. The current Canadian government, with
mixed humility, calls some of the descendants of these peoples the First
Nations." Quote from John Hagan's book, Darfur and Crime of Genocide (p. 36)
https://johnhagan.org/

 

[CitizenofCapua]

I just really dont get this sensivity but im sure if Kanter was a guard who is in the same situation and has the same talent level he would definetly get the call. He is just not so irreplaceable in a big men rotation of Turkish NT but still they are not thinking ahead and pragmatistic. Maybe they want to give a chance to Ilkan Karaman who played good basketball in Euro Basket Qualifications and maybe they think he was the one who worked for a spot at Euro Basket so he deserves to get minutes. I dont know im just trying to empathize with the NT management here without including myself in politic talks.

 

[jazzfan32]

that is called nation-building Sir.
Every emerging nation requires a "other",a demon, if you like!
Armenians abroad have been using these genocide claims to mobilize their youth, hoping that they will not be assimilated in their host countries.
On another note; what happened in 1917?
did you mean 1915?
Armenians were butchered Numberica, noone -including sucessive Turkish governments- is denying this!
There was mass-killings, guilty as charged!
BUT
these were not one-sided as you guys believe!
Besides, there was no law in 1915 defining the crime, we call genocide since 1948.
If 1915 events had happened in 2003 I'd tend to label this situation a genocide or at least a crime against humanity, committed by BOTH sides. (at least C.A.H.)
But you cannot apply law retrospectively and judge people.
If you do that, you guys, Amerians i.e. have to be responsible for the killing of millions of Indians in about a hundred years till 1650!
"It is estimated that at least forty million indigenous peoples lived
in these lands when European explorers and settlers found their ways
to our shores. Fewer than ten million of those forty million indigenous
Americans remained in 1650. The current Canadian government, with
mixed humility, calls some of the descendants of these peoples the First
Nations." Quote from John Hagan's book, Darfur and Crime of Genocide (p. 36)
https://johnhagan.org/

I guess we are playing the deniers now just trying to stretch things a bit...

A few corrections: To my knowledge, the person who introduced the term "genocide", Raphael Lemkin I believe, openly expressed that he used this word to describe what happened in the past to Jews and to Armenians, but he does not mention the native americans or aboriginal people living in the North America. Additionally, Jewish holocaust, which mainly occured before 1948, is recognized today as a genocide.

In Turkey other massacres happened including 1938 Dersim Massacre or "Cultural Genocide" as described by some people and pogroms in Istanbul in 1960s, which are less known. And some more genocides to Greeks, Assyrians. And of course still ongoing things happening now to the kurds, who are on the focus of this nation-building process as legitimized by nationalists.

I don't see any point in continuing to post messages to this thread from now on because I don't enjoy replying messages to a bunch of nationalistic personna who make baseless arguments.

 

[CitizenofCapua]

I guess we are playing the deniers now just trying to stretch things a bit...

A few corrections: To my knowledge, the person who introduced the term "genocide", Raphael Lemkin I believe, openly expressed that he used this word to describe what happened in the past to Jews and to Armenians, but he does not mention the native americans or aboriginal people living in the North America. Additionally, Jewish holocaust, which mainly occured before 1948, is recognized today as a genocide.

In Turkey other massacres happened including 1938 Dersim Massacre or "Cultural Genocide" as described by some people and pogroms in Istanbul in 1960s, which are less known. And some more genocides to Greeks, Assyrians. And of course still ongoing things happening now to the kurds, who are on the focus of this nation-building process as legitimized by nationalists.

I don't see any point in continuing to post messages to this thread from now on because I don't enjoy replying messages to a bunch of nationalistic personna who make baseless arguments.

How do you know so much about Turkish Politics? Im impressed. But still its missing.

You are using the word of genocide so easily and without thinking, genocide is such a strong word and be more careful while using it. There has been some issues with Greeks of Turkish Nationality like an unfortunate issue like 6-7 September Events but we cant call it as genocide. It happened in a time that Turkey and Greece has tight and problematic relationships about Cyprus and for many other issues and a provocative news from a national newspaper light the fuse for some radical nationalist focals. Every country had some troubles with actions of its radical, racist groups against their ethnical or religious minorities in the past like Turks had in Western Thrace in Greece.

I dont know why you mentioned Assyrians. Assyrians are a very little minority in Anatolia and there has not been a single issue within my knowledge. Most of them living in South* Eastern provinces of Anatolia among Kurds and Arabs.

And i dont know why you bringing up this issues to a thread about Kanter's NT Paricipation. Cant we just stick with the basketball, critisize/support this decision or talk about how this will affect Kanter's developement and the Jazz?

 

[Tarkanian]

I guess we are playing the deniers now just trying to stretch things a bit...

A few corrections: To my knowledge, the person who introduced the term "genocide", Raphael Lemkin I believe, openly expressed that he used this word to describe what happened in the past to Jews and to Armenians, but he does not mention the native americans or aboriginal people living in the North America. Additionally, Jewish holocaust, which mainly occured before 1948, is recognized today as a genocide.

In Turkey other massacres happened including 1938 Dersim Massacre or "Cultural Genocide" as described by some people and pogroms in Istanbul in 1960s, which are less known. And some more genocides to Greeks, Assyrians. And of course still ongoing things happening now to the kurds, who are on the focus of this nation-building process as legitimized by nationalists.

I don't see any point in continuing to post messages to this thread from now on because I don't enjoy replying messages to a bunch of nationalistic personna who make baseless arguments.

You are wrong if youthink that I am playing the denier card.
I openly write that those acts would qualify as one kind of an int'l crime, genocide or else.
Dude, believe me I am a professor of int'l law.
Lemkin's personal motives are well known to me.
For me he is a very valuable lawyer and pure admiration.
But his writings are not law; 1948 Genocide Convention is, which is, needless to say, to be interpreted according to Vienna onvention of Treaties; NOT Lemkin's personal agenda (tho he coined the term genoicde).
I do stop here as well, for I see that my already-badly-put remarks are falling on deaf ears.