Evaluating the Core 5 -- What influence does Corbin Have?

[Getting Traded]

I really believe that we can't give a fair evaluation of the Core 5 until we get another coach. Corbin is a huge problem. Because he plays vets who have no business playing like Beans over Gobert, he saps confidence and makes it more difficult for them to get comfortable when they get time on the floor. The uncertainty about minutes, the changing strategies because of Corbin's indecisiveness and inexperience, and his inability to communicate with them about their roles and what they are supposed to do, makes it difficult to play for him. I really think Hayward is suffering the most from this because he's being relied on the most. But all the young guys are having their ups and down, I think in large part, because of Corbin's inconsistency and baffling rotations.

Yes, we want to tank, but let's get rid of Corbin and get a temporary guy -- not Lowe -- who will be required to play the young guys. And then in the off-season get an experienced coach with a good track record. There are plenty of good coaches out there. Lionel Hollins is one that comes to mind, and he is looking for a head coaching position.

 

[NUMBERICA]

The problem isn't the rotations, it's the players. Unless you have some insight on how he's not utilizing his players strengths correctly or strengthening their weaknesses, then this should be the last post on this issue.

 

[fishonjazz]

The problem isn't the rotations, it's the players. Unless you have some insight on how he's not utilizing his players strengths correctly or strengthening their weaknesses, then this should be the last post on this issue.

My god.
There have been soooooo many posts about exactly what you are asking for.
Sigh

 

[NUMBERICA]

My god.
There have been soooooo many posts about exactly what you are asking for.
Sigh

Are there? Or is it just a bunch of Monday morning quarterbacking? Or worse; is it more of the rotational belly-aching listed above? Because that is all I've seen.

I say all of this at the risk of committing the most indefensible crime on this board: being a Croban apologist. I assure you, it is perfectly possible that Corbin isn't the answer and the team is also not good. It takes both to get to the bottom.

 

[Coach Ellis]

The problem isn't the rotations, it's the players. Unless you have some insight on how he's not utilizing his players strengths correctly or strengthening their weaknesses, then this should be the last post on this issue.

I usually like your posts and value your opinion, but I don't think you could be more wrong. This team has talent, but is a total mess because the young guys have been completely mismanaged for years. And the scary part is that even after most of the team's veterans have been let go, he's still doing it. I think that it's a waste of time to even try to evaluate what they have while he's still the head coach.

It's more than just rotations. There's no clear vision on offense or defense. He doesn't seem to have a good grasp on player development. Motivation and support is lacking. He's a nice guy, and by all accounts he was a decent assistant coach. . . but he's one of (if not the absolute) worst head coaches in the league. Replacing him with a better coach will go miles towards improving this team.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I usually like your posts and value your opinion, but I don't think you could be more wrong. This team has talent, but is a total mess because the young guys have been completely mismanaged for years. And the scary part is that even after most of the team's veterans have been let go, he's still doing it. I think that it's a waste of time to even try to evaluate what they have while he's still the head coach.

It's more than just rotations. There's no clear vision on offense or defense. He doesn't seem to have a good grasp on player development. Motivation and support is lacking. He's a nice guy, and by all accounts he was a decent assistant coach. . . but he's one of (if not the absolute) worst head coaches in the league. Replacing him with a better coach will go miles towards improving this team.

Care to clarify what SPECIFICALLY he is doing wrong? Maybe it's hard to have a vision when your players aren't very good and you don't have a ballhandler.

Anyone can see that that Jazz aren't coached particularly well, but they aren't a good team. If they were, a rookie PG that shoots <%40 from the field and doesn't get to the line wouldn't make so massive an effect on the team.

And because it apparently requires an infinite amount of reinforcement, I am not saying Corbin is a particularly good coach.

 

[The Thriller]

Do the players ever share any accountability?

I think and all know that Corbin sucks.

But what about the players?

Kanter looks slower and dumber than ever. Is it Corbin's fault that he offense fouls every time he sets a pick? Is it his fault he either doesn't jump inside or pass the ball out of triple teams? Is it Corbin's fault that kanter looks as interested at playing defense as boozer or big al?

Favors has struggled at times to finish inside. For a stretch of games there he looked completely MIA. Blame Corbin?

Burks is an idiot. Sometimes, he makes good plays. Most of the time, he's playing selfish ball forcing things 1 on 5. He has yet to play defense. He can't shoot from the outside yet doesn't have PG skills. He's a "tweener" for SGs.

Hayward? Is mentally weak and has struggled with his shot. He tries to take over in the 4th but cannot.

Burke? Since we are attributing everyone's failures on Corbin likewise can we attribute Burke's successes to Corbin? Or, in our hatred of Corbin, Are all of Burke's successes because of himself? What a sweet game! When players play well, it's because they are good. When they play bad, it's all on the coach.

The truth is, our c5 isn't that talented. Nor do they fit together other than Burke and Favors.

 

[Doublea]

The coach is a scapegoat for us fans, it's one piece that can easily be fired and then have a new one hired. We don't want to see our players doing bad, we want them to achieve a lot more, and mostly because we used high draft picks on them. So yes I think Corbin is a terrible coach, and yes I think the core 5 could really benefit from a smarter head coach. This is a lost seasons, so why are we putting Biedrins (who will probably net us nothing) for Gobert who we just drafted and who needs experience on the court, not on the bench. I also don't like Corbins philosophy that you earn minutes and get benched when a mistake has happened. How has Lucas and Jefferson earned minutes? Make the young guys learn from mistakes and keep playing, then when rewatching film show them what they need to do. I'm pretty certain Corbin makes his rotations before games starts and pays no attention to what is happening during the game as well, he'll take out guys that are hot and sub random rotations in.

If any of this made sense, then that's my point...

 

[♪alt13]

Hayward iso is an example

That is corbins decision and has been hilarious to watch. Either corbin is in on the tank or is a bad coach, I don't see another conclusion.

 

[nateboz]

Any person who watches the Jazz, and says Corbin isn't a GIGANTIC failure and a major reason for the regression of the youth. Is either 1 an Antagonist. 2 not watching them.

 

[NUMBERICA]

If you think that the only thing separating The Four or Five from superstardom is a coach with a winning record with TEH WORST VETS IN TEH UNIVRESE, then I have a tonic to sell you.

 

[Doublea]

If you think that the only thing separating The Four or Five from superstardom is a coach with a winning record with TEH WORST VETS IN TEH UNIVRESE, then I have a tonic to sell you.

I don't really think any of us have said that our players will be super stars, or that Corbin is holding them back from being super stars. He is though making them worse imo. He is taking confidence away, not building chemistry, and I don't think he's a good person to have in a locker room.

 

[♪alt13]

If you think that the only thing separating The Four or Five from superstardom is a coach with a winning record with TEH WORST VETS IN TEH UNIVRESE, then I have a tonic to sell you.

Jazz

With a good vet from FA, a few nice draft pieces, and a new coach will compete for the playoffs next season.

Bucks

Won't

We have a good team that is missing the most important pieces. Sacramento has decided on their pieces and has a ****ty team. We are in a good place.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Jazz

With a good vet from FA, a few nice draft pieces, and a new coach will compete for the playoffs next season.

Bucks

Won't

We have a good team that is missing the most important pieces. Sacramento has decided on their pieces and has a ****ty team. We are in a good place.

I agree. But you have to get right at the right time, and getting jumpy to improve your team at the wrong time can have it's own consequences.

But I'm going to throw a name in the hat for out-of-house interim coach that might just bite: Mike Dunlap.

 

[Ellipse]

Do the players ever share any accountability?

I think and all know that Corbin sucks.

But what about the players?

Kanter looks slower and dumber than ever. Is it Corbin's fault that he offense fouls every time he sets a pick? Is it his fault he either doesn't jump inside or pass the ball out of triple teams? Is it Corbin's fault that kanter looks as interested at playing defense as boozer or big al?

Favors has struggled at times to finish inside. For a stretch of games there he looked completely MIA. Blame Corbin?

Burks is an idiot. Sometimes, he makes good plays. Most of the time, he's playing selfish ball forcing things 1 on 5. He has yet to play defense. He can't shoot from the outside yet doesn't have PG skills. He's a "tweener" for SGs.

Hayward? Is mentally weak and has struggled with his shot. He tries to take over in the 4th but cannot.

Burke? Since we are attributing everyone's failures on Corbin likewise can we attribute Burke's successes to Corbin? Or, in our hatred of Corbin, Are all of Burke's successes because of himself? What a sweet game! When players play well, it's because they are good. When they play bad, it's all on the coach.

The truth is, our c5 isn't that talented. Nor do they fit together other than Burke and Favors.

I'm going to jump on the statement in bold: Have you watched what happens when Kanter is fed the ball in the low block? The pg passing him the ball moves to the top of the arc, while the other three Jazz players are all stacked at the 3-pt line on the weak side. Several times Kanter has tried to pass out of the double and triple team, only there is no one to pass to; he has to wait for the pg to come back to him so he can make the pass without it being intercepted. I'm sure it wasn't Kanter that designed that play.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Do the players ever share any accountability?

I think and all know that Corbin sucks.

But what about the players?

Kanter looks slower and dumber than ever. Is it Corbin's fault that he offense fouls every time he sets a pick? Is it his fault he either doesn't jump inside or pass the ball out of triple teams? Is it Corbin's fault that kanter looks as interested at playing defense as boozer or big al?

Favors has struggled at times to finish inside. For a stretch of games there he looked completely MIA. Blame Corbin?

Burks is an idiot. Sometimes, he makes good plays. Most of the time, he's playing selfish ball forcing things 1 on 5. He has yet to play defense. He can't shoot from the outside yet doesn't have PG skills. He's a "tweener" for SGs.

Hayward? Is mentally weak and has struggled with his shot. He tries to take over in the 4th but cannot.

Burke? Since we are attributing everyone's failures on Corbin likewise can we attribute Burke's successes to Corbin? Or, in our hatred of Corbin, Are all of Burke's successes because of himself? What a sweet game! When players play well, it's because they are good. When they play bad, it's all on the coach.

The truth is, our c5 isn't that talented. Nor do they fit together other than Burke and Favors.

so you are saying all those 5 players suck and corbin is the pwnzor.

well then there is a bigger problem.
and a draft pick wont solve it.
jazz cant evaluate talent

 

[The Thriller]

so you are saying all those 5 players suck and corbin is the pwnzor.

well then there is a bigger problem.
and a draft pick wont solve it.
jazz cant evaluate talent

I love this all or nothing approach many of you are taking.

It's like... If Corbin isn't the serpernt who deceived Adam and Eve and killed Jewish babies in Poland during the 30s, then you're a huge Corbin fan that hates the C5.

Guys, listen, it's not that simple. Try to listen to people instead of maintaining a rigid ideology no matter what others say.

The C5 is a bunch of role players (with the exception) of Favors. Their strengths DO NOT offset their weaknesses (other than Burke and Favors). For most of them to be effective 1 or more of them must be off the floor. They don't fit together and often do not play well together.

Give them Phil Jackson or Pop and they're still out of the playoffs.

Not enough shooting, athleticism, and defense to get the job done. IMO, serious decisions need to be made about Kanter and Burks. To me, they rarely appear as starting material for a playoff team. Kanter's lack of athleticism and defense kills his potential. Burks? Is a complete ballhog who will probably end up in Minny or Milwaukee where he can jack up ill-advised shot after ill-advised shot in another year or two. He's the definition of a volume shooter. Never will be a player on a playoff team. Never. He, Monta, Jennings, Wall, etc will all have fine careers, I'm sure. Just as Gilbert Arenas did. Lots of chucking not very many Ws.

Hayward? Could start on playoff teams but only as maybe a 4th option.

Burke and Favors are keepers.

Please, don't crucify me anymore for stating the truth. This is what we all wanted. We wanted to see if the C4-5 was any good. We're seeing this. And really, it isn't much different than what most of us suspected. Burke and Favors, awesome. Hayward, a role player. Burke a ballhog. Kanter meh.

 

[ijazz]

Thriller.

You are dead on.

This is a business and everyone should be on notice and trad offers fielded.

Trey Burk - Way too early for me. Shows promos.

Gtime - No way you can evaluate on this team. At best a #2 option, most likely a #3. Replaceable

Jefferson - Vet, bench player serves role.

Favors - Can be a beast. Remember at contract time his agent expressed desire to keep core together and Jazz thought they could.
If we break up, will this impact him ?

Kanter - not sold he has the commitment.

 

[ijazz]

Forgot

Burks - Alley ball player for me. He will thrive on this crappy team. Put him on a contender and he would get benched

 

[Getting Traded]

The problem isn't the rotations, it's the players. Unless you have some insight on how he's not utilizing his players strengths correctly or strengthening their weaknesses, then this should be the last post on this issue.

He's using players haphazardly without any plan, that's the problem! Plus he's not using the right players at the right time in the right situations. Not only that he gives confusing signals, rewarding people who suck and play terrible, and benching people for no reason whatsoever. Furthermore, this kind of management confuses the players and does not instill confidence in their abilities. Overall, it just destroys chemistry and makes players uncomfortable and unable to play up to their potential. I think this has been said many times before in many different ways. And now Thriller is on the bandwagon that the players suck when for three years he's been criticizing Corbin -- well, Thriller, did you ever play in a situation where the Captain or manager doesn't know what he's doing and you don't know your role and are unsure when you will see PT -- it's not easy to play well in that situation or up to your potential. You need PT and confidence from your coach!