Evaluating the Core 5 -- What influence does Corbin Have?

[vj_74]

[When you have either drafted or stockpiled 5 or 6 lotto picks, many of them high picks and not one of them looks anywhere close to being an all star material in their second or third years(Burke still has time), then it might also be less about the coach and more about the FO and their talent judging and scouting abilities. Because lets face it, even if the coaching isnt exactly great it is difficult to really mask or negate or put a leash on real talent. Lebron would have been all star material right away away even if Dunleavy or Isaiah Thomas were coaching him. Great talent often overcomes mediocre coaching. So while Corbin could be a problem, the actual problems could very well run deeper.
Consider, for starters, our FOs decision of drafting Hayward over Paul George. This could come to haunt us, like the Lopez drafting over Parker, though I still hope that Hayward has another level in him..

 

[Doublea]

[When you have either drafted or stockpiled 5 or 6 lotto picks, many of them high picks and not one of them looks anywhere close to being an all star material in their second or third years(Burke still has time), then it might also be less about the coach and more about the FO and their talent judging and scouting abilities. Because lets face it, even if the coaching isnt exactly great it is difficult to really mask or negate or put a leash on real talent. Lebron would have been all star material right away away even if Dunleavy or Isaiah Thomas were coaching him. Great talent often overcomes mediocre coaching. So while Corbin could be a problem, the actual problems could very well run deeper.
Consider, for starters, our FOs decision of drafting Hayward over Paul George. This could come to haunt us, like the Lopez drafting over Parker, though I still hope that Hayward has another level in him..

Oh my eff, if one more person brings up the we drafted so one so, instead of so one so. Literally any of those guys could have been busts.

 

[Notes]

I could see someone trying to argue that the problem was the players IF the Jazz had some sort of... you know, DIRECTION they were trying to go in. This team is just a jumble of heaping trash that has no idea what it's doing, and that is squarely on the shoulders of the coach.

The Suns were projected to be the worst team in the league and they have arguably worse than or equal talent to the Jazz. They may not end up making the playoffs, but they clearly have a direction they are moving in and are showing vast improvements. That is the difference between a decent coach and a clueless blockhead running the show.

 

[The Midnight]

I could see someone trying to argue that the problem was the players IF the Jazz had some sort of... you know, DIRECTION they were trying to go in. This team is just a jumble of heaping trash that has no idea what it's doing, and that is squarely on the shoulders of the coach.

The Suns were projected to be the worst team in the league and they have arguably worse than or equal talent to the Jazz. They may not end up making the playoffs, but they clearly have a direction they are moving in and are showing vast improvements. That is the difference between a decent coach and a clueless blockhead running the show.

Cool name bro.


Rep'd.

 

[Weezur]

I blame the players more than the coach, but I don't know who to blame for player development.

 

[Coach Ellis]

Normally I'd blame the players for failing to develop because ultimately greatness belongs to them and I believe that they're all very talented in their own ways. However, it's hard to develop consistency and confidence when there's no plan or direction from the head coach. They've been buried behind vets who have not always played better than them and often when they do something great, they end up losing minutes for some inexplicable reason. The management if the young players thus far is my biggest complaint about Ty Corbin, and I want him gone before he can screw up Gobert, Burke and whoever they get in the upcoming draft.

Can those who think I'm just trying to scapegoat the coach for this awful state of the team honestly say that they want Corbin to be the guy to guide and develop Wiggins/Parker/Exum/Randle/Embiid/Smart? I want a coach with a proven track record to get the most out of young players and let these guys grow into a solid team under that structure.

 

[salo]

Kanter looks slower and dumber than ever. Is it Corbin's fault that he offense fouls every time he sets a pick? Is it his fault he either doesn't jump inside or pass the ball out of triple teams? Is it Corbin's fault that kanter looks as interested at playing defense as boozer or big al?

agree that kanter is having a rough year. not sure if he's injured, put on weight or what but to me he looks less athletic than last year and it's hurting him at both ends of the floor. looks great when he has the touch going and is beating up on 2nd string guys. also needs to stop looking hurt by refs calls and traumatised by his turnovers and get his mojo back!

 

[salo]

hayward might not have a ceiling as high as others but i would hate to lose him more than all of them. does many things very very well and can make other people better in the way burke can.

when it comes down to it i would say that burks, favors and kanter are more replaceable. would want to see a lot more of all of them before making any trade.

 

[DutchJazzer]

I love this all or nothing approach many of you are taking.

It's like... If Corbin isn't the serpernt who deceived Adam and Eve and killed Jewish babies in Poland during the 30s, then you're a huge Corbin fan that hates the C5.

Guys, listen, it's not that simple. Try to listen to people instead of maintaining a rigid ideology no matter what others say.

The C5 is a bunch of role players (with the exception) of Favors. Their strengths DO NOT offset their weaknesses (other than Burke and Favors). For most of them to be effective 1 or more of them must be off the floor. They don't fit together and often do not play well together.

Give them Phil Jackson or Pop and they're still out of the playoffs.

Not enough shooting, athleticism, and defense to get the job done. IMO, serious decisions need to be made about Kanter and Burks. To me, they rarely appear as starting material for a playoff team. Kanter's lack of athleticism and defense kills his potential. Burks? Is a complete ballhog who will probably end up in Minny or Milwaukee where he can jack up ill-advised shot after ill-advised shot in another year or two. He's the definition of a volume shooter. Never will be a player on a playoff team. Never. He, Monta, Jennings, Wall, etc will all have fine careers, I'm sure. Just as Gilbert Arenas did. Lots of chucking not very many Ws.

Hayward? Could start on playoff teams but only as maybe a 4th option.

Burke and Favors are keepers.

Please, don't crucify me anymore for stating the truth. This is what we all wanted. We wanted to see if the C4-5 was any good. We're seeing this. And really, it isn't much different than what most of us suspected. Burke and Favors, awesome. Hayward, a role player. Burke a ballhog. Kanter meh.

disagree on that if pop had these players for the same time crobain had them. they would be a middle of the pack playof team a 55%-65% win team

 

[zman1527]

1. Don't you guys who list the bad attributes/play of our youngsters could blame the coaching for that failure? Sure, it could be that the player is not up to the task, and it could also be that they have been poorly coached. Capiche? So, it is entirely possible that the players look way worse than they should because of bad coaching.

2. Corbin, to my mind, ignores the key to the year and tries too hard to win games. Yes, I know that he has to win games, but how about trying to be better later in the year by playing the youngsters huge minutes now in hope they can turn it around later? I would like to see the core5 play 30 minutes together every game with rudy getting 18 mpg. Corbin instead gets all wound up about his wonderful vets and plays Beedritch over Gobert.

 

[default]

*** Instead of having a thread about what Corbin is doing wrong, we should have a thread about what he is doing right. The only problem is that thread would only have a couple posts in it.

 

[juandiego]

I do not think our core-5 are better than mediocre NBA players.

 

[Notes]

*** Instead of having a thread about what Corbin is doing wrong, we should have a thread about what he is doing right. The only problem is that thread would only have a couple posts in it.

1) Helping to prolong the careers of mediocre vets

2) Inadvertantly driving the tank

 

[franklin]

*** Instead of having a thread about what Corbin is doing wrong, we should have a thread about what he is doing right. The only problem is that thread would only have a couple posts in it.

Even Corbin's most fervent and persistent haters have acknowledged that his rotations have reached perfection this year, and have admittedly eaten their crow for unduly blaming him for the team's point guard problem. They've apologized in roundabout terms for last season's game-to-game flair ups over benching Kanter, and now see the light that Kanter is just not very good. They've realized Favors is not an offensive beast, and finally wiped the glaze from their eyes to see that his defense is at times subpar (to put it lightly). They've praised veterans Marvin Williams for his consistent play, and Jefferson for his leadership, floor spacing, and solid defensive rotations. They have gone so far with the vets to admit that Corbin playing Biedrins a bit is not a problem in the least and probably the correct coaching decision to make. They've concluded that Burks is a nice role player in the right situation, and thanked Corbin for putting him in a role to succeed.

Pretty much every piece of nitpicking anger over every single thing Corbin has done has been realized as wrongheaded and fully apologized for by the guilty party.

 

[LogGrad98]

Even Corbin's most fervent and persistent haters have acknowledged that his rotations have reached perfection this year, and have admittedly eaten their crow for unduly blaming him for the team's point guard problem. They've apologized in roundabout terms for last season's game-to-game flair ups over benching Kanter, and now see the light that Kanter is just not very good. They've realized Favors is not an offensive beast, and finally wiped the glaze from their eyes to see that his defense is at times subpar (to put it lightly). They've praised veterans Marvin Williams for his consistent play, and Jefferson for his leadership, floor spacing, and solid defensive rotations. They have gone so far with the vets to admit that Corbin playing Biedrins a bit is not a problem in the least and probably the correct coaching decision to make. They've concluded that Burks is a nice role player in the right situation, and thanked Corbin for putting him in a role to succeed.

Pretty much every piece of nitpicking anger over every single thing Corbin has done has been realized as wrongheaded and fully apologized for by the guilty party.

Seriously standing by this? So Corbin is the best coach ever in terms of rotations since he has reached perfection? Or will you cop to hyperbole even though the sentence sure didn't read that way.

Or is this whole post a brilliantly worded exercise in hyperbole and sarcasm, the likes us which us mere mortals cannot begin to comprehend?

 

[franklin]

Seriously standing by this? So Corbin is the best coach ever in terms of rotations since he has reached perfection? Or will you cop to hyperbole even though the sentence sure didn't read that way.

Or is this whole post a brilliantly worded exercise in hyperbole and sarcasm, the likes us which us mere mortals cannot begin to comprehend?

I said all the haters have apologized, Log. Now apologize!!!

 

[LogGrad98]

I said all the haters have apologized, Log. Now apologize!!!

If ALL of the haters have apologized, and I have not apologized, then I logically cannot be a hater.

Or, in laymans terms, neener neener.

 

[franklin]

You still need to apologize for questioning me that all the apologizers have perfectly apologized.

 

[LogGrad98]

You still need to apologize for questioning me that all the apologizers have perfectly apologized.

I will do no such thing, as I have no need to apologize for any unapologetic assertions of the perfection of apologizers who apologized before, especially when I was never informed of said apologies and, subsequent to being made aware of the assertion that all apologies were made, question the veracity of the infallibility of both said apologies and apologizers, both independently and collectively.

Neener neener.

 

[Getting Traded]

Even Corbin's most fervent and persistent haters have acknowledged that his rotations have reached perfection this year, and have admittedly eaten their crow for unduly blaming him for the team's point guard problem. They've apologized in roundabout terms for last season's game-to-game flair ups over benching Kanter, and now see the light that Kanter is just not very good. They've realized Favors is not an offensive beast, and finally wiped the glaze from their eyes to see that his defense is at times subpar (to put it lightly). They've praised veterans Marvin Williams for his consistent play, and Jefferson for his leadership, floor spacing, and solid defensive rotations. They have gone so far with the vets to admit that Corbin playing Biedrins a bit is not a problem in the least and probably the correct coaching decision to make. They've concluded that Burks is a nice role player in the right situation, and thanked Corbin for putting him in a role to succeed.

Pretty much every piece of nitpicking anger over every single thing Corbin has done has been realized as wrongheaded and fully apologized for by the guilty party.

1. I don't think any of Corbin's critics -- we are not haters, just pointing out his mistakes -- have blamed him for the PG situation
2. We have not seen the light about Kanter, because we still aren't sure about him. We still see unrealized potential and wonder if Corbin is part of the problem with Kanter's struggles
3. I don't think anyone here ever said Favors was an offensive beast but that he has great defensive ability that possibly could translate on the offensive end with better coaching
4. The main problem with Marvin and Jefferson is that they're taking away time from the young guys who need to play to realize their potential
5. Biedrins shouldn't play unless there's foul trouble or in garbage time -- he's taking away from Gobert's development
6. Burks struggles owed much to Corbin's poor handling of him in the past which he has not yet overcome, and any success he has had, is in spite of Corbin.

So, Franklin, are you related to Corbin or Greg Miller, or do you just like to antagonize people on here because you know how strongly Jazz fans feel that we need a new coach?