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Everyone saying "I don't remember us looking this bad before" has a short memory

Sloanfeld said:
My point is toward all of the fools who kept saying this years team was better than last years because our record was better at that point in the season.

This team isn't going on any such tear. Too flawed. We might be able to get it together and get a 4/5 spot, but that's it.
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So, does this mean you're too big of a coward to post your video's again? Thought so.


SLOANED.
 
The reason I'm more concerned this year than in previous years is that this team is challenged in the scoring department. Relatively, at least. The Jazz used to come out and not get blown out (but consistently lose to bad teams on the road) and commonly just lay waste to other teams. They don't lay waste to anyone this year. The offense is clumsy and there's nothing resembling a go-to play or players (PGs are ideally supposed to be a secondary option even if it's still high in priority, not be forced to do a Kobe/Lebron/Jordan impersonation). And the rebounding situation is horrible. And the defense has slipped. The first thing likely to change is the defense, but what of the other two HUGE factors?

We'll see, I guess. This team is anything but the same as the team of the previous 4 seasons.
 
I didn't think we would be better than last years team, mostly for the losses of Matthews and Korver than for losing Bozzer. But what I am tired of is that it is the same old story, every year. Yeah so last year's team will have won more games or had a higher playoff spot than this year's when all is said and done. But Bozzer and the rest didn't lead us to a championship either. Not sure what it would take but I wish we would see something out of the front office other than the same old crap remixed and recrapped.
 
I'd say the big difference this year is this: https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/1st-quarter-points-per-game

During that slump, I doubt you could find an equally damning year-long stat (and yes, I know you can post the fourth-quarter numbers in response). The comeback streak was amazing, but it made the team exciting; I wouldn't agree that it made them look like a good-to-great team, which the early Jazz did at times last year.

This team is not as bad as it's looked recently, but it's much closer to mediocre than its overall record indicates.
 
Having tempered expectations is the key to getting out of this slump.

I am talking about the slump the fans are in, on this board.
 
Usually I agree with the op, but I think this team is different. This team has done things on the road that no other jazz team has accomplished for many years imo. I checked last year's wins and this year has been special until december. I also believe the jazz flaws are not the type that are easily or rapidly corrected.

Regarding a hot streak like last year, I don't believe this year will end the same. I think it may be longer--like next year. However, I think the optimism by the fans is good and helpful. I am just planning on a bit more patience. I don't even want personnel changes. I don't see any reason to jump ship on this team yet.
 
Sloanfeld said:
My point is toward all of the fools who kept saying this years team was better than last years because our record was better at that point in the season.

This team isn't going on any such tear. Too flawed. We might be able to get it together and get a 4/5 spot, but that's it.
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Just speaking for myself I only was saying that in response to your insistent posting of Jazz would be better with Boozer.
Nobody was really questioning his offensive production or his rebounding but your never ending pining for Booz gets very annoying.
Also again not saying the Jazz couldn't use his rebounding but if you look at production from each position it's easy to see the SG is the biggest drop off from last year (that would be Mathews, Korver and I'll include Brewer since he was here part of the season) that IMO is the reason for the current Jazz predicament.
 
//r00t 4 Jazz said:
Just speaking for myself I only was saying that in response to your insistent posting of Jazz would be better with Boozer.
Nobody was really questioning his offensive production or his rebounding but your never ending pining for Booz gets very annoying.
Also again not saying the Jazz couldn't use his rebounding but if you look at production from each position it's easy to see the SG is the biggest drop off from last year (that would be Mathews, Korver and I'll include Brewer since he was here part of the season) that IMO is the reason for the current Jazz predicament.
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couldn't agree more. We would not be any better with Boozer right now. Our problems revolve around the SG being able to make a damn shot. Start CJ, bench Bell. Bench Sap, start Memo/Fes. I hate that Sloan insists on playing guys out of their natural position. Then we hear comments like, "their length killed us" blah blah blah.
 
The Jazz have plenty of talent (but not necessarily to win a title). What I'm not seeing is effort. They are playing like they don't care. I've seen guys play pick up games with more passion.
 
//r00t 4 Jazz said:
Just speaking for myself I only was saying that in response to your insistent posting of Jazz would be better with Boozer.
Nobody was really questioning his offensive production or his rebounding but your never ending pining for Booz gets very annoying.
Also again not saying the Jazz couldn't use his rebounding but if you look at production from each position it's easy to see the SG is the biggest drop off from last year (that would be Mathews, Korver and I'll include Brewer since he was here part of the season) that IMO is the reason for the current Jazz predicament.
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Boozer is not the main issue in this scenario. I'm arguing that last season's whole team was better than this ones. That includes all of the other personel changes too. People like you, vinylone, etc. kept saying that we are better this year because our record was better, citing 'better defense' and ignoring the fact that we went on a huge tear during the second half of last season. Now the record is evening out and about to be worse. I'm right.
 
Sirkickyass said:
0-4 against bad teams sucks. It's awful. I hate it just as much as everyone else. That said, this is not a disaster yet.

A few facts:

Our record after 44 games last season was 26-18. Our record after 44 games this season is 27-17.

The Jazz had a pretty rough go of it in late December/Early January last season: Between December 18, 2009 and January 4, 2010 the Jazz went on a 3-6 stretch. The losses were BAD. We were blowing big leads, getting cranked in fourth quarters and the fan base was apocalyptic. It was bad enough that the team was losing but they'd also engaged, during this bad stretch, in the Eric Maynor giveaway. It looked enough like open revolt that Greg Miller took to his blog to defend the team against the angry fans. His blog entry talked down enough to the fans that the reaction on this board was generally towards "who does that ******* think he is?"

https://blogs.lhm.com/gmiller/2010/01/my-thoughts-on-the-utah-jazz/

What happened after that?

The team immediately whipped off a stretch where they won 16 of 18 and won 9 in a row. One of those early games was "the shot" by Sundiata Gaines. All it took to shake the team out of a severe funk was one big game.

For that reason I'm going into the Lakers and Spurs games with a bit of optimism. A win in one of these games and we could very well be looking at the kind of resurgence that makes everyone forget the bad stretch even happened.

And keep in mind, I'm usually the last person with any uptimism. I fully expect lots of people to tell me I'm an idiot here, but we saw this same thing play out last season.

Now if we lose both these games and then again to the Timberwolves ... then I will fully endorse the_pearl camping out in a bell tower next to the ESA.
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Good points but I'll say this. My complaint is not about these four games in particular, though they are disconcerting. It's about the same inconsistency throughout games and a season that we've seen for four years now, that leads to the same outcome of 50-53 wins give or take, a 4-6 seed, and the same outcome in the long run which is a playoff exit earlier than I'd like. With that, I can't help but feel like the players just don't have the sense of urgency and drive needed to win on a more consistent basis so that we get the two or three seed (I'll concede the one seed) and make a (legit--not a gift handed to us by the Warriors) trip to the WCF where we can let it all hang out.
 
The way I see it, the fact we've sucked so bad most of the year and have the record we do is encouraging. We have talent. We've played exceptionally well in small stretches. Intangibles like the comebacks and road record show me we have heart. The team is just taking longer to gel. The win streak will come. We will go into the playoffs hot. And we will knock off somebody no one thinks we can.
 
The last thing to mention right now should be comparison of the last year record to current record because last year Jazz started their 18-2 run couple 10 days ago. It's going to be painful to compare these records in one month.
 
I think it has more to do with actually watching them.

True, our record isn't that bad. What Kicky seems to be suggesting is that we're good enough to qualify for a 6th seed. Which is fine, I guess.

But the problem is what we're observing....

We're observing a team that cannot shoot, rebound, score in transition, and is fighting amongst themselves.

True, we've had low points. Injuries to Boozer, Memo, AK, Deron, etc.

But never have we been so outmanned at the 2/3. Never. Brewer couldn't shoot. But at least he could get steals, rebound, cut, and dunk. Korver couldn't defend or drive, but at least he could shoot. Wesley was a good player. Raja sucks, AK sucks, and CJ is inconsistent.

Boozer and Memo had problems defensively. But at least they could rebound and score. They could work decently together. But Al and Paul haven't shown the ability to compliment each other. Nor have they showed the ability to rebound.

We may end up with a great record, which would be awesome.

But the way this team looks isn't entertaining... Nor is it the type of Basketball that wins championships.
 
The Thriller said:
I think it has more to do with actually watching them.
/snip/
But the problem is what we're observing....

We're observing a team that cannot shoot, rebound, score in transition, and is fighting amongst themselves.
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Very well put. It's rare for good teams to just fall off the map like we have this year without an injury or loss of a coach or some other major event. I think the problems are so many, that the team will have to address them one by one--at this point I think the staff is still trying to identify exactly everything that is going wrong. If I had to name just a few possibilities:
Getting scouted, no energy/passion/desire, selfishness (but chemistry has been supposedly good until just recently), shooting, rebounding, scoring, not knowing plays, plays not appropriate for the current roster, confidence, failure to take responsibility, rebounding, no home court advantage (compared to years past) and so forth.

Maybe this explains why fans will need to be patient so that we don't end up further alienating players from their fan base. Like I said earlier, this team has shown the ability to beat top teams on the road, and to come back from deep deficits--two things that mean mental toughness to me. Because of that I am willing to let them go back to square one as they start picking up the pieces. Based on their early accomplishments, I am giving them a good chance at building on what they started earlier this year--but that's not happening overnight.

Having said that, it would be some pretty tasty crow if we go on a tear starting in LA tomorrow.
 
fairweather said:
The Jazz have plenty of talent (but not necessarily to win a title). What I'm not seeing is effort. They are playing like they don't care. I've seen guys play pick up games with more passion.
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i think you could literally post this at any time in the past ~6 seasons and be ok, that's how stagnant this team is
 
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