Fair Share?

[Gameface]

https://money.cnn.com/2013/03/12/news/economy/rich-taxes/

The rich pay majority of U.S. income taxes

Many people think that the rich are able to weasel their way out of taxes, but they actually pay an overwhelming majority of the taxes in the United States.

What's more, their share of the tax burden is increasing.
The top 10 percent of taxpayers paid over 70% of the total amount collected in federal income taxes in 2010, the latest year figures are available, according to the Tax Foundation, a right-leaning think tank. That's up from 55% in 1986.

So when will the rich have paid their fair share?

 

[franklin]

A) Can we get a graphic of their share of the pork?

B) This is income taxes only. Taxes are not progressive at this point, which gives the already advantaged even tighter control in restricting free markets. It also serves well to seize up the flow of money through the economy, which is a great way to cause collapse.

Raise taxes/cut welfare. Back to the Wealth of Nations.

 

[moevillini]

https://www.kiplinger.com/article/taxes/T054-C000-S001-where-do-you-rank-as-a-taxpayer.html

...ONE percent of taxpayers reported almost 19% of all taxable income. But that same tiny group also kicked in 37% of all the taxes paid. How much do you need to make to be in the top 50% of earners? Just $34,338.

Our income and tax-burden breakdowns come from information reported on 2010 individual income tax returns. Income categories are based on adjusted gross income.

(Note that these figures include only federal income taxes. According to one study, more than half of all wage earners pay more in Social Security and Medicare taxes than they do income tax. The percentage of those paying more payroll tax than income tax soars to nearly 90% if you count both the employer and employee share of those levies.)

For historical perspective, back in 1986, the top 1% of earners reported 11% of all income and paid 26% of the income taxes; the lower-earning 50% made 17% of the income and paid 6% of the nation’s individual income tax bill.
Read more at https://www.kiplinger.com/article/t...u-rank-as-a-taxpayer.html#EqipyrfMHDE0LBxE.99

and since SSI and Medicare taxes are capped once you've earned about $125,000 for the year, those with lower incomes pay disproportionately more than higher income wage earners

(don't recall the current cap off the top of my head but it means a nice bump in take-home pay once you've reached it)

 

[One Brow]

So when will the rich have paid their fair share?

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/06/speedup-americans-working-harder-charts

Look at the change in income, compared to productivity changes. All the extra productivity not being paid as a wage is going to the owners of capital, primarily the top 1%.

 

[Stoked]

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/06/speedup-americans-working-harder-charts

Look at the change in income, compared to productivity changes. All the extra productivity not being paid as a wage is going to the owners of capital, primarily the top 1%.

Mother Jones? Might as well use IHateTheRight.com...


Sounded like something you would say....

 

[Stoked]

https://www.kiplinger.com/article/taxes/T054-C000-S001-where-do-you-rank-as-a-taxpayer.html



and since Social Security (not SSI) taxes are capped once you've earned about $113,000 for the year, those with lower incomes pay disproportionately more than higher income wage earners

Medicare (Part A) has no limit on what is taxable.

(don't recall the current cap off the top of my head but it means a nice bump in take-home pay once you've reached it)

I fixed the bolded parts for you.

 

[One Brow]

Mother Jones? Might as well use IHateTheRight.com...


Sounded like something you would say....

I agree you should not take Mother Jones word that the data is correct, if you are interested in the conversation. Do the research. You'll find the data is correct, in this particular case.

 

[Stoked]

I agree you should not take Mother Jones word that the data is correct, if you are interested in the conversation. Do the research. You'll find the data is correct, in this particular case.

I am sure the data is fine. I was just messing with you about a comment on why I didn't use Brietbart or something like that.

 

[moevillini]

I fixed the bolded parts for you.

there's nothing like a nit-picker :/)


but thanks!

the point remains however...

 

[Stoked]

there's nothing like a nit-picker :/)


but thanks!

the point remains however...

I agree that the point does remain. I was just making it factual and reinforcing your claim. SSI is something you do not have to pay a dime of taxes to receive. It is Social Security's version of welfare.

 

[One Brow]

I am sure the data is fine. I was just messing with you about a comment on why I didn't use Brietbart or something like that.

The appropriate counterweight to Mother Jones would be The Wall Street Journal. The appropriate counterweight to Brietbart would be Ed Schultz. I agree that if t5he primary source is Breitbart or Ed Schultz, a very high degree of skepticism is warranted.

 

[franklin]

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/06/speedup-americans-working-harder-charts

Look at the change in income, compared to productivity changes. All the extra productivity not being paid as a wage is going to the owners of capital, primarily the top 1%.

Well, what was wrong with the British Feudal system?

 

[babe]

https://money.cnn.com/2013/03/12/news/economy/rich-taxes/



So when will the rich have paid their fair share?

The question is the problem. Even being willing to discuss "Fair Share" makes a socialist/statist/victim out of you. To become a real libertarian you need to know how to take over the conversation. Government is force, not fair.

Government, even in a democracy, has no more intrinsic virtue than a boatload of Vikings ransacking your village.

you have to call out the democratic stooges/thugs on the true nature of their privileged class of porkers who live off the dole watching Oprah, and support the sequestration of all natural resources in the lockbox of the government or the asset sheets of cartelists.

 

[babe]

Well, what was wrong with the British Feudal system?

you rattlin' my chain, bro?

 

[bordelais7]

A) Can we get a graphic of their share of the pork?

Repped for the first question asked being the first question that SHOULD have been asked. Too many conclusions quickly drawn from intellectually dishonest (whether intentional or not) and incomplete data.

 

[Gameface]

So, the answer is that because the system is unfair and the rich benefit unjustly from the influence they have over our government institutions then there is no amount of taxes they could pay that would equal a fair share?

 

[franklin]

you rattlin' my chain, bro?

Hopefully...as long as there's a choke collar attached.

 

[franklin]

So, the answer is that because the system is unfair and the rich benefit unjustly from the influence they have over our government institutions then there is no amount of taxes they could pay that would equal a fair share?

No. The initial question is loaded, or too easy to quickly attack after an abrupt response. It's no more useful to me than asking what amount of taxes is too little for the rich to pay. Obviously zero is too little and 100% too much.

The fact of the matter is our system is currently structured in every imaginable way to benefit the merchant class. Obama's stimulus was specifically designed to save businesses from failing demand, and outright giveaways to others. (Now Republicans want to come after the middle class...oops I mean "broaden the base" to pay for the debt created to save richie rich's businesses?) Federal Reserve policy is highly beneficial to those it lends to. Our social safety nets are pass through programs where fungible money is taken from the middle class, given as welfare, and spent on the products produced by the rich. We have the M.I.C., P.I.C., EPA over regulation pushing new competition out, tax advantages for big business financing that isn't available to the small start ups, Mega Ag. sucking billions up, utility monopolies, duopoly retailer structure... Capital is taxed at 15% before write-offs; my wages at 15.3% in FICA & SECA alone.

I don't know what the optimum amount of taxation is but I know it is much higher at the top under our current system. Also, if you want to see reforms to the bloated welfare state then make the rich pay for it. They're the ones buying off congress and will fix the damn problems if we start sending them the bill.

 

[babe]

No. The initial question is loaded, or too easy to quickly attack after an abrupt response. It's no more useful to me than asking what amount of taxes is too little for the rich to pay. Obviously zero is too little and 100% too much.

The fact of the matter is our system is currently structured in every imaginable way to benefit the merchant class. Obama's stimulus was specifically designed to save businesses from failing demand, and outright giveaways to others. (Now Republicans want to come after the middle class...oops I mean "broaden the base" to pay for the debt created to save richie rich's businesses?) Federal Reserve policy is highly beneficial to those it lends to. Our social safety nets are pass through programs where fungible money is taken from the middle class, given as welfare, and spent on the products produced by the rich. We have the M.I.C., P.I.C., EPA over regulation pushing new competition out, tax advantages for big business financing that isn't available to the small start ups, Mega Ag. sucking billions up, utility monopolies, duopoly retailer structure... Capital is taxed at 15% before write-offs; my wages at 15.3% in FICA & SECA alone.

I don't know what the optimum amount of taxation is but I know it is much higher at the top under our current system. Also, if you want to see reforms to the bloated welfare state then make the rich pay for it. They're the ones buying off congress and will fix the damn problems if we start sending them the bill.

wut he said.

 

[babe]

Hopefully...as long as there's a choke collar attached.

ha ha.

Medieval Feudalism is just one apparition of the eternal ghosts of man's eternal problem of "management". Don't imagine we'll ever "fix" it.

I'll be shouting "GGGOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" if we can just rip apart the mesmerizing "progressive" reincarnation we're suffering under now.