Fantasy Draft: 2nd Round (franklin vs WhiskyPriest)

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Team franklin

PG- Kobe Bryant / John Havlicek / Baron Davis
SG- Ron Artest/ Bryant / Steve Nash / Havlicek
SF- Crymelo Anthony/ John Havlicek / Artest
PF- Karl Malone/ Willis Reed / Jermain O’Neal
C- Nate Thurmond / Reed / Jermain O’Neal

Team WhiskyPriest

PG- Kevin Johnson / Pete Maravich
SG- Clyde Drexler / Dan Majerle
SF- James Worthy / Detlef Schrempf
PF- Dirk Nowitzki / Larry Nance
C- Hakeem Olajuwon / Robert Parish


franklin's case:

Nate Thurmond is a defending Mother of Zeus. A beast. The greatest defender of all time.

Go ask Kareem & Wilt who the toughest defender ever is, then run along and cry. He was a bigger Ben Wallace, a taller & longer Dwight Howard, & a stronger David Robinson all combined into one heaping scoop of rim protecting marble. He had that excellent passing vision thing too.

Crymello aside, the rest of my starters are pretty damn good defenders as well. Malone, Artest, Kobe. Crymello will start at the 3, playing 8-9 minutes before my 3 point catch-and-shoot specialist Steve Nash comes in with fresh legs & a career 43% 3 point shooting to wreak havoc on your team. He's playing off ball running Reggie & Ray plays, & can get you in the air then drive circles around your big men. Nash will do what he does best, & that's making your defense look silly.

If you're beating Nash then I bring in Baron, who was a monster at his peak.
Malone is going to beat you down the floor every time. I sub in Willis Reed when Malone gets winded, who ran the floor just like Malone.
John Havlicek had a motor that went for 48 minutes every game. He'll keep your 1, 2 or 3 working on both ends of the floor all night long & will give solid minutes to rest players at each of these positions.
Jermain O'Neal gives excellent minutes as a backup 4 or 5, & is a great team player to plug into an already efficient offensive machine.

We can pick and roll, spread the floor with Malone & Thurmond, pure scoring in Mello, alleyoops from Kobe, and a little of everything from Artest.

WhiskyPriest's case:

I'm going to keep this short and sweet. My team's goal is to dominate the low post and the high post by sticking two of the premiere basketball players to play the position low (Olajuwon) and high (Nowitzki). Drexler and Johnson can both dribble penetrate and create opportunities for Hakeem, Dirk, and Worthy. Worthy is my blue collar guy, running the floor and doing the little things that glue together a basketball team.

Instant offense comes off the bench with "The Pistol" Pete Maravich. I'm surrounding him by players that can run the floor extremely well (Majerle, Nance, Schrempf) and spot up for the transition three (Majerle and Schrempf). Also, Robert "The Chief" Parish gives a physical presence off the bench so the low post is continually anchored down.

Every team in this tournament is extremely talented, and the draft process was extremely fun. However, I think my team gives enough different looks and the players mesh together so well that my team can beat any of them.

 

[bjunior]

This one is tough for me. I'll wait to see 2nd quarter.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Tough one. I voted franklin. Kobe simply put it over the top for me. And while he didn't say it, I'd finish with Nash, Kobe, Artest, Malone, Thurmond. KJ may get past Nash but the defense around him is so insanely strong, it wouldn't really matter much.

The KJ, Drexler, Worthy trio just doesn't impress me either.

 

[Siro]

This one is the toughest match-up of the second round. Franklin got a pretty awesome team MINUS CARMELLO. He would surely ruin the chemistry by dominating the ball and playing **** defense. While Thurmond is an amazing defender, Hakeem is too crafty for a relatively slow behemoth to stop. Whisky by a hair's width.

 

[franklin]

There's nothing Whiskey can do to stop my team from scoring. Malone is going to crush Nowitzki & take him out of the game. You switch Hakeem onto Malone & I pull him outside & post Dirk up all game long. Thurmond shoots better than 80% over Dirk there. Nash & Malone PnR Dirk to death. Bryant dominates KJ in every aspect of the game. Don't forget Havlicek is a top 4 small forward of all time, 8 championships, & top 20 player ever.

Dirk can't guard Malone but Malone can guard Dirk. The only advantage is Hakeem over Thurmond, but that's not enough to hang your hat on over my defensive powerhouse. Kobe & Artest smother the guards & I'll Crymello will do more than fine guarding Worthy. Worthy can't guard Anthony though.

 

[Chad Feldheimer]

Kobe at PG & Nash at SG?

Seems backwards to me.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Overall defensive and mental edge goes to Franklin. Nash to Malone PnR is huge. There are a lot of reasons to like Franklin's team.

But it's hard to give any team an edge against a team with the most unguardable players to ever play their position (Hakeem and Dirk), who's skillsets also happen to mesh perfectly and with ample floor-spreading. Dirk may be a real slouch defensively, but the list of players that have consistently guarded Dirk well is as long as the list of proven gods.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I told myself that I liked Whisky's team most, but franklin's team can score and D/heart has to be the difference between teams. And if that's the case, I might have to vote for Franklin.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Now that I'm out of this, I can get this out: franklin took Nash and Artest right before I was going to take them. I've been working out a hindsight draft based on - in a vacuum, basically - who was available when I picked. In hindsight:

Nash
-
-
Malone
Robinson

And run you the **** off the floor + infinite and unstoppable PnR + terrific iso options + willing and able passers + great interior D + Robinson's nightmare now is a teammate. Anyway.

That said, Whisky could really use some muscle on the perimeter, and another all-world defensive player inside. Getting Parish so late was a complete coup, though. I really want to vote Whisky, but I can't help but feel that players like Kevin Johnson and Pistol would just get crushed against a team like Franklin's.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I also hate Carmello Anthony, and I think he should be coming off the bench as even from a different era, Havlicek has to be the superior defender and player. Carmello off the bench as scoring punch sits better with me.

I'm seriously torn on this.

 

[franklin]

Nash
-
-
Malone
Robinson

I probably would have taken whoever you left me between Malone & Duncan then Robinson or Moses right after, but only because the board seems to be voting as if bigs are all that matters. Look at how little respect Jordan & Magic have gotten. I don't want to beat up on Hakeem for purposes of this matchup, so this is outside the lineups--Hakeem was stopped for a decade because surronding casts are very important. He couldn't lead a team out of the first round, or even into the playoffs, until Clyde Drexler came along. Big guys can be slowed on offense & they won't be as effective on both ends of the floor when you throw fire power at them.

Also, Melo is only in to run his *** off for the first 8 minutes of Q1 & 3. His only purpose is to make you work & get me into your bench.

++Dirk will either be non-existent on D or will get into foul trouble quickly. Yeah, he's unguardable too, but he's not staying on the floor long guarding Malone.

 

[northeast]

Franklin has guys playing out of position all over the place. Kobe is your distributer, wth? Artest at SG. Thurmond who?

 

[NUMBERICA]

Hakeem was stopped for a decade because surronding casts are very important. He couldn't lead a team out of the first round, or even into the playoffs, until Clyde Drexler came along.

I feel it my duty to correct this. Drexler came along mid-season in '95. Hakeem won a ring in '94 with Otis Thorpe as the next highest scorer. This is the crux of my "Hakeem at his best in an actual game of basketball is the best center to ever play the game" belief. He's done more with less than anyone in NBA history. It was him and a bunch of nice role players. But when you're arguably the best defensive big in history (all-time leading shot-blocker and it's not close, could switch onto anyone) and arguably the most polished offensive big in history, you can win with that.

Additionally, Hakeem is playing with guys you have to guard. You are not going to be able to send help, and if you do, you're giving up an open shot. This is also a player that was not pushed around nor intimidated by the most dominant (sheer physical might) big this side of Wilt (scoring-title, still athletic as **** Shaq). For a window, Hakeem was just about perfect.

It's so hard for me to vote against Hakeem.

 

[NAOS]

I don't like Franklin's depth chart, and I hate Crymelo, but his team is deep and an offensive juggernaut. I'll go with Frank

 

[NUMBERICA]

Also, Melo is only in to run his *** off for the first 8 minutes of Q1 & 3. His only purpose is to make you work & get me into your bench.

He's not exactly Usain Bolt, though, nor is he Matt Harpring. In fact, he's nothing in-between. Why not use him as a pure-sub? Sub him and make him a primary option at the end of Q1 going into Q2, with the same thing in the second half?

 

[NAOS]

He's not exactly Usain Bolt, though, nor is he Matt Harpring. In fact, he's nothing in-between. Why not use him as a pure-sub? Sub him and make him a primary option at the end of Q1 going into Q2, with the same thing in the second half?

yes.

You should be starting Nash.

 

[NUMBERICA]

yes.

You should be starting Nash.

I can understand the urge to hide his D, but you probably need to hide Melo's, too. Havlicek should be starting and ending. And so should Nash, probably. You can't minimize the role of a guy who's had a simply transcendent ability to get his team to score.

 

[franklin]

I feel it my duty to correct this. Drexler came along mid-season in '95. Hakeem won a ring in '94 with Otis Thorpe as the next highest scorer. This is the crux of my "Hakeem at his best in an actual game of basketball is the best center to ever play the game" belief. He's done more with less than anyone in NBA history. It was him and a bunch of nice role players. But when you're arguably the best defensive big in history (all-time leading shot-blocker and it's not close, could switch onto anyone) and arguably the most polished offensive big in history, you can win with that.

Additionally, Hakeem is playing with guys you have to guard. You are not going to be able to send help, and if you do, you're giving up an open shot. This is also a player that was not pushed around nor intimidated by the most dominant (sheer physical might) big this side of Wilt (scoring-title, still athletic as **** Shaq). For a window, Hakeem was just about perfect.

It's so hard for me to vote against Hakeem.

Good stuff. I definitely don't want to make myself out to be anti-Hakeem or attacking him in any way. I just don't get the sentiment that bigs are all that matters, & Hakeem's lack of success by his incredible self illustrates the point well enough for me. I used him as an example because he was so damn good (I chose him as the example over HOFers Robinson & Ewing). The Jazz beat him, Barkley, & Drexler with a second year ****ing Ostertag slowing him down. Bigs can be stopped, especially if you can run the hell out of them off perimeter turnovers & rebounds. The other options are great execution & wide open 3 point shooting (which is the main reason I took Steve Nash over Ray Allen or Reggie Miller, & passed up on Worthy or Pierce to slide into an overly hated & discounted Crymelo Anthony). Watch 1997 WCF footage & see how often Ostertag was wide open under the basket for easy offensive rebound putbacks because Stockton & Malone sucked the entire defense off everyone else. Place a competent scoring center in & that one wouldn't have reached 6 games.

Also, look at how the Spurs have chewed up defenses with execution & wide open threes. Guys like Nash shooting 45% from down town are daggers to big centric defensive schemes. Kobe won championships setting up guys like Fisher, Horry, that wierd ******* Rick Fox, & even Lamar Odom for wide open 3's.

He's not exactly Usain Bolt, though, nor is he Matt Harpring. In fact, he's nothing in-between. Why not use him as a pure-sub? Sub him and make him a primary option at the end of Q1 going into Q2, with the same thing in the second half?

I thought we vote on how we would play the teams so sit his *** for being a bitch his entire career if you want to.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Bigs allow you to guard on the perimeter, though. Bigs have always been and continue to be the entire reason a defense works. If you can't protect the rim or guard a PnR, you are susceptible to getting destroyed.

This is not saying anything for or against any team in particular. Just arguing that defense from your bigs is a necessity.

 

[franklin]

Another point to add to Hakeem's credit is that dominant players typically don't win rings until years 7-8 on. It's just too hard to beat out veterans in so many rounds of the NBA playoffs. Guys like Kobe & Pippen who won rings early on were lucky to add their talents to peaking Shaq & Jordan.