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Favors' Elite Offensive Skill

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BYE

Well-Known Member
Favors has seemed to stagnate a little on offense lately with very few pick & rolls, so I looked at Synergy to see how he and other Jazz guys compared to the league’s best big men and superstars. Synergy is much more straight-forward with offense, and the rank (first number) is based solely on points/possession (second number). This is basically how many points a player scores on a particular play type including if they get to the line on this play and if they turn it over. It’s interesting that Al is ok because of his low-turnover rate even though he doesn’t get to the line. What I found interesting is that very few players are good at both post-ups and pick & rolls (Bosh and Aldridge being the exceptions), but notice P. Gasol’s excellent post rating but relatively bad P&R rating. The upshot is that Favors still has some work to do on his post game but he’s still more efficient than Nene or Stoudemire in the post. Where Favors is elite is in his P&R efficiency. He is ranked 18th in the league--better than Griffin, Bynum, Aldridge and others--with an impressive 1.13 points/possession (and he doesn’t have Chris Paul feeding him; this is better than Wade’s post ups #5 1.08 PPP). Conclusion, Favors should be in the P&R constantly when he is in with Hayward, Burks, and Harris. We should occasionally put him in the post but focus on the P&R. If he can get a good rhythm in the P&R it will give him confidence and utilize the talents that he has rather than trying to force his development in the post, which will come. He’s already elite in this area; let’s use his talents to our benefit. Go Jazz!

NE = not enough plays to rank yet
POST UP
5. D. Wade 1.08
8. P. Gasol 1.06
13. LBJ 1.01
17. L. Aldridge .96
33. M. Gasol .9
33. C. Bosh .9
39. Jefferson .88
45. B. Griffin .86
48. Dwight H. .85
53. A. Bynum .83
57. Millsap .81
88. Favors .7
92. Stoudemire .68
98. Nene .63
106. Kanter .57
NE. D. Jordan .5

PICK & ROLL (MAN)
2. Dwight Howard 1.37
5. Nene 1.33
8. C. Bosh 1.24
12. D. Jordan 1.21
15. Stoudemire 1.17
18. Favors 1.13
31. Jefferson 1.04
33. B. Griffin 1.02
36. M. Gasol 1.01
36. L. Aldridge 1.01
NE. A. Bynum .94
NE. Kanter .88
NE. Millsap .72
70. P. Gasol .69
 
I agree Favors could be a lot more potent offensively in the P&R, especially with Hayward. If the defender goes under, Hayward has a wide open mid range and those he can actually shoots very well.
 
Because being the 18th best at something means your elite now. Is the guy who is the 18th best scorer now an elite scorer?
 
Been thinking this for a while. He's definitely more in the mold of an Amare type player, so I don't understand why we seem to post him up more than use him in the pick n' roll. This is also part of the reason I see Kanter as our center and Favors as our PF. Kanter has a better back to the basket game, where as Favors thrives in the pick n' roll.
 
Cyrone Torbin said:
Because being the 18th best at something means your elite now. Is the guy who is the 18th best scorer now an elite scorer?
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OK, so you don't like the word "elite". He's very good and better than about 481 of the best players in the world as a 20-year old, but the word changes very little. And the ranking is indicative of his potential if worked on. Do you disagree with the assessment or just the word?
 
doubledribble said:
Well, you decide:

NBA Player Scoring Statistics - 2011-12, total points
...
18. Dwyane Wade, SG - 624.
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Nice try. Wade is 6th in PPG. I guess he has missed some games. The 18th place in PPG is Chris Bosh. Elite scorer? No. Really good scorer? Yes.
 
Cyrone Torbin said:
Nice try. Wade is 6th in PPG. I guess he has missed some games. The 18th place in PPG is Chris Bosh. Elite scorer? No. Really good scorer? Yes.
Click to expand...

Good point, but there is a difference between 18th in totals, and 18th in a "per".

Not many players are going to take as many shots per game as Bosh, so in counting points per game, Bosh is really competing against a peer group of about 70 or 80 guys, whereas the other stats in where we talking 18th were "per" stats out of a peer group of 450.
 
Cyrone Torbin said:
Because being the 18th best at something means your elite now. Is the guy who is the 18th best scorer now an elite scorer?
Click to expand...

Fair point. I also think it's important to note how Favors is dependent on someone getting him that ball in said PnR, so for me, "offensive skill" is being used a little loosely here.

That said, I think drafting someone like Marshall, at say the 8th pick, could be a bit of a stretch, but not much of one. The kid is getting around 10 assists a night against strong competition. As a sophomore. Sure his shooting is suspect but his form doesn't suck and I see no reason to believe it couldn't improve. Heck, he's at 49% from on two point attempts this year. I'm not saying he'll ever reach elite efficiency standards but to a middling rank is feasible I think. So his shooting is not a great concern to me. Especially when I think of how much better he could make Favors as well as Kanter, Hayward and Burks.

His biggest concern to me would be his athleticism. How well will he be able to get past defenders and dish? How well will he be able to defend? There are so many pg's with elite athleticism or near it like Rose, Westbrook, and Jennings that I'd be concerned. The flip side compared to the last decade though is that we now have guys in the middle in Favors and Kanter who should be able to protect the rim should these guys get by.

Rambling done.
 
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Wes Mantooth said:
Fair point. I also think it's important to note how Favors is dependent on someone getting him that ball in said PnR, so for me, "offensive skill" is being used a little loosely here.

That said, I think drafting someone like Marshall, at say the 8th pick, could be a bit of a stretch, but not much of one. The kid is getting around 10 assists a night against strong competition. As a sophomore. Sure his shooting is suspect but his form doesn't suck and I see no reason to believe it couldn't improve. Heck, he's at 49% from on two point attempts this year. I'm not saying he'll ever reach elite efficiency standards but to a middling rank is feasible I think. So his shooting is not a great concern to me. Especially when I think of how much better he could make Favors as well as Kanter, Hayward and Burks.

His biggest concern to me would be his athleticism. How well will he be able to get past defenders and dish? How well will he be able to defend? There are so many pg's with elite athleticism or near it like Rose, Westbrook, and Jennings that I'd be concerned. The flip side compared to the last decade though is that we now have guys in the middle in Favors and Kanter who should be able to protect the rim should these guys get by.

Rambling done.
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Good point.

It also seems like he's getting in the lane a lot easier, as of late.

I've warmed up to him a bit. But I still don't think he's worth a lottery pick at this point. Maybe my mind will change after the tournament, though. Will be interesting to see how everyone's opinion on the PG situation change between now and draft night.
 
Once Favors and Kanter become starters, our defense should be pretty good (assuming their defense doesn't take a hit due to fatigue from added minutes and from additional offensive responsibilities).
 
The problem is our 2 pick and roll gaurds are Harris and Hayward and they hardly see time with Favors at all.

CJ is abhorious at it (yes, invented a new word just for how bad he is at it...anyone with half a brain understands that you have to wait for your man to set a pick before you can use the pick)

Watson is more of a transition PG.
 
Weezur said:
The problem is our 2 pick and roll gaurds are Harris and Hayward and they hardly see time with Favors at all.

CJ is abhorious at it (yes, invented a new word just for how bad he is at it...anyone with half a brain understands that you have to wait for your man to set a pick before you can use the pick)

Watson is more of a transition PG.
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Basically. I really want Hayward and Favors to get more time together. I thought they started to develop some chemistry last year and I want to see more of it.
 
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