What's new
By:

Favors, Hayward and Burke

Hayward has sucked this year....... all you have to do is watch the games to know that.

Sure there are good reasons to why he has sucked and he is better than he has shown, but to try to act like he has had a good year is just wrong.
 
b_line said:
Great question. Also, Gordon's shooting percentage and points totals will improve. As will his assist to turnover ratio. I see him as a guy who will get about 18 points 5 rebounds and 5 assists with about 46% shooting when he is on a good team. He will probably average less than two turnovers per game as well. He is going through some growing pains right now, and is still very impressive about 75% of the time.
Click to expand...
If we are lucky enough to get Parker or or Wiggins, and they turn out to be studs, this will alleviate some of his problems. He's not a #1 scoring option, but that's how the jazz are playing him= low shooting%. He's our top playmaker, and for some reason he's not being used in that role. I would like to see Burks in the starting lineup, and see him in Hayward's role allowing Hayward to assume a facilitative role, and slasher. At one point last year he was third in the entire nba in ft's off the bench before he was put back on the starting lineup. I agree that his turnovers will improve. Hayward has improved his ball handling every year, and hope he continues this, but I think 18 points is too high. I want him to focus more on assists rebounds and steals. In the years to come I'd like to see him at something like 14/7/7/2. I think these numbers help us win more and make us a better team. This is why he will be worth 12 million, but if the jazz keep him in the role he is in now, he's worth 8 million.
fishonjazz said:
Hayward has sucked this year....... all you have to do is watch the games to know that.

Sure there are good reasons to why he has sucked and he is better than he has shown, but to try to act like he has had a good year is just wrong.
Click to expand...

he's not exactly being set up to succeed. Hayward is not a high volume shooter, yet Ty continues to force him to be. While he has Burks relegated to the bench, and he seems more able to fill that role. Hayward is more of a spot up shooter and slasher while Burks can do that as well, and is more capable shooting off the dribble, but to say he's having a bad year is a little strong, as the system, and team philosophy is holding him back. I have a feeling that if someone like Sloan were coaching, we'd be singing Haywards praises. He does affect games in positive ways in other areas of the game, and other then the other day he usually plays hard.
 
fishonjazz said:
Hayward has sucked this year....... all you have to do is watch the games to know that.

Sure there are good reasons to why he has sucked and he is better than he has shown, but to try to act like he has had a good year is just wrong.
Click to expand...

He has not but it is obvious why. You plug Parker into this line up, have Hayward as the other wing and Burke running the show and Hayward has a career year.

He is an off ball facilitator. He is s good spot up shooter that can play D, rebound and pass. Parker takes the heat and Hayward plays agaisnt lesser defenders.
 
Stoked said:
He has not but it is obvious why. You plug Parker into this line up, have Hayward as the other wing and Burke running the show and Hayward has a career year.

He is an off ball facilitator. He is s good spot up shooter that can play D, rebound and pass. Parker takes the heat and Hayward plays agaisnt lesser defenders.
Click to expand...

We all know that if you plug an elite player into this lineup, that Hayward gets better..... as well as everybody else on the team.

This Jazz team just isn't very good yet, and of course everyone including Hayward's play is going to suffer because of it.

Not to mention the bad coaching.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
he's not exactly being set up to succeed. Hayward is not a high volume shooter, yet Ty continues to force him to be. While he has Burks relegated to the bench, and he seems more able to fill that role. Hayward is more of a spot up shooter and slasher while Burks can do that as well, and is more capable shooting off the dribble, but to say he's having a bad year is a little strong, as the system, and team philosophy is holding him back. I have a feeling that if someone like Sloan were coaching, we'd be singing Haywards praises.
Click to expand...

Stoked said:
He has not but it is obvious why.
Click to expand...

fishonjazz said:
Sure there are good reasons to why he has sucked and he is better than he has shown
Click to expand...

.
 
Diamond77 said:
Competitive players perform well against strong teams! Hayward often struggles against strong teams.
Click to expand...

You don't watch many jazz games do you. Hayward has a really bad game, and all of a sudden he's not competitive. It's stupid crap like this that made me decide to take over a week off of posting on jazzfanz.
 
Diamond77 said:
Competitive players perform well against strong teams! Hayward often struggles against strong teams.
Click to expand...

By this logic Burke isn't competitive, because he stunk it up as well, or Malone isn't a competitive player since he missed those foul shots in the finals in the biggest moment vs the bulls?
 
b_line said:
Great question. Also, Gordon's shooting percentage and points totals will improve. As will his assist to turnover ratio. I see him as a guy who will get about 18 points 5 rebounds and 5 assists with about 46% shooting when he is on a good team. He will probably average less than two turnovers per game as well. He is going through some growing pains right now, and is still very impressive about 75% of the time.
Click to expand...
Great analysis...so you're saying that his FG%, scoring and ast/TO ratio will improve simply because you think it will happen, and totally disregard what we've seen so far this season? OK.
As far as Gordon "being impressive 75% of the time"...The league average FG% is 45%. Hayward has shot below average in 19 out of 26 games or roughly 73% of the time. I know he had some nice games with rebounding and assists (although the high turnovers negates this) but to say he was "impressive" 75% of the time is totally delusional...
 
akirac73 said:
Great analysis...so you're saying that his FG%, scoring and ast/TO ratio will improve simply because you think it will happen, and totally disregard what we've seen so far this season? OK.
As far as Gordon "being impressive 75% of the time"...The league average FG% is 45%. Hayward has shot below average in 19 out of 26 games or roughly 73% of the time. I know he had some nice games with rebounding and assists (although the high turnovers negates this) but to say he was "impressive" 75% of the time is totally delusional...
Click to expand...

He will improve because of the law of averages. His entire career he has shot better than this season, and had less turnovers. Every statistic points to him improving on that after adjusting to a new role on the offense. Every player goes through huge growing pains when their usage rate jumps that considerably. Paul George shot like 40% last season, and had more turnovers than before, it is just something that happens when the role changes.

So yes, he will definitely improve, but not because I think so, but because the stats say so.
 
TheSilencer1313 said:
We all know that if you plug an elite player into this lineup, that Hayward gets better..... as well as everybody else on the team.
Click to expand...
Why do people keep perpetuating this myth? Look at the Miami Heat. When Lebron James was added to the team, suddenly Wade and Bosh's numbers went down, it didn't go up...it's simple math, there are only so many points/assist/rebounds to be had in a game. You add an elite player to the Jazz he will take away points/reb/asts from a player like Hayward. Hayward may become more efficient (i.e. shoot the ball better, maybe turnovers go down) with a star player on the roster, but his numbers will definitely go down.
 
akirac73 said:
Why do people keep perpetuating this myth? Look at the Miami Heat. When Lebron James was added to the team, suddenly Wade and Bosh's numbers went down, it didn't go up...it's simple math, there are only so many points/assist/rebounds to be had in a game. You add an elite player to the Jazz he will take away points/reb/asts from a player like Hayward. Hayward may become more efficient (i.e. shoot the ball better, maybe turnovers go down) with a star player on the roster, but his numbers will definitely go down.
Click to expand...

The whole teams efficiency went up though. That is what they are talking about. Thee jazz fan said Hayward should be averaging around 14 points with 7 assists in like the same post. That is less scoring than he is doing now. But his efficiency, ie turnovers and shooting percentage, are sure to improve with an elite number one option.
 
b_line said:
He will improve because of the law of averages. His entire career he has shot better than this season, and had less turnovers. Every statistic points to him improving on that after adjusting to a new role on the offense. Every player goes through huge growing pains when their usage rate jumps that considerably. Paul George shot like 40% last season, and had more turnovers than before, it is just something that happens when the role changes.

So yes, he will definitely improve, but not because I think so, but because the stats say so.
Click to expand...
His career stats show that his shooting % has progressively declined in each of his 4 seasons, and his turnovers have increased in each of his 4 seasons. So those stats/trends tell you that Hayward will suddenly shoot better and turnover the ball less? OK.
 
akirac73 said:
His career stats show that his shooting % has progressively declined in each of his 4 seasons, and his turnovers have increased in each of his 4 seasons. So those stats/trends tell you that Hayward will suddenly shoot better and turnover the ball less? OK.
Click to expand...

Turnovers per 36 have stayed almost exactly the same except this year. I expect him to shoot around 45% eventually because he can shoot threes and free throws at a high rate, and once a coach runs plays with him in the right spots, he will shoot better. This tirade you have against Hayward is getting old. If you refuse to be logical, then go ahead with your stupid bs crap, but nobody but the trolls are buying it.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
It's not that Hayward is having a bad year more then Ty is a bad coach.
Click to expand...

If that is the case then the whole might be full of all stars but ty is holding them back!
 
akirac73 said:
Why do people keep perpetuating this myth? Look at the Miami Heat. When Lebron James was added to the team, suddenly Wade and Bosh's numbers went down, it didn't go up...it's simple math, there are only so many points/assist/rebounds to be had in a game. You add an elite player to the Jazz he will take away points/reb/asts from a player like Hayward. Hayward may become more efficient (i.e. shoot the ball better, maybe turnovers go down) with a star player on the roster, but his numbers will definitely go down.
Click to expand...

First of all, oranges and apples. Secondly, his fg% should increase. If he gets the same point totals on fewer looks that is better. Efficiency
 
b_line said:
Turnovers per 36 have stayed almost exactly the same except this year. I expect him to shoot around 45% eventually because he can shoot threes and free throws at a high rate, and once a coach runs plays with him in the right spots, he will shoot better. This tirade you have against Hayward is getting old. If you refuse to be logical, then go ahead with your stupid bs crap, but nobody but the trolls are buying it.
Click to expand...
I'm basing my opinions on facts...you keep making excuses and disregard his statistics so you can make your outrageous claims that "Hayward has been impressive 75% of the time" or "Hayward is an elite shooter like Kyle Korver". Hayward is what he is...an inconsistent role player that will tease you from time to time with an amazing performance, nothing more, nothing less. Don't take this as an insult...not everyone in this league can be an elite/superstar level player.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top