Favs Deal Must Be Moved

[LoPo]

This is the problem with the team. We fell in love with personalities over winning a title.
and the top record in the west only may the homers more blind.

Reality sunk in when we embarrassed ourselves in the playoffs.

Some people still think Royce is the answer, or some really good player. It's mind blowing. He's OKAY but hes a weakness and
very overrated by some. Ingles too. These guys should be end of the rotation guys not key pieces.

The problem is that we needed 2 more guys like Royce and Joe instead of Favors and nothing else.

We had 3 All Stars this year and the 6th Man. Our issues weren't Royce and Joe, it was not having enough guys like them.

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[Handlogten's Heros]

I can understand why you wouldn't believe Ryan Smith wants to spent $90M for two years of Favors...but I have zero care about Ryan Smith's money if he wants to spend it. A large tax will might be worth having a good team for him. He's going to save so much more on real taxes with his purchase of the Jazz.

WIth that said, if some team is willing to take on Favors for our first round pick...I have a very hard time believing Ryan Smith will choose Favs over the first round pick.

The “I don’t care about Ryan’s money” narrative is kinda naive. If he was spending 90M to keep a key cog then it makes sense… for our 8th man? I just don’t see it. These guys don’t make mega billions by not worrying about spend and being wasteful… a tax deduction is cool but trust me… they’d rather have the money.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

The “I don’t care about Ryan’s money” narrative is kinda naive. If he was spending 90M to keep a key cog then it makes sense… for our 8th man? I just don’t see it. These guys don’t make mega billions by not worrying about spend and being wasteful… a tax deduction is cool but trust me… they’d rather have the money.

At least for me, I understand and expect Ryan to manage his money and offload Favors. It's also true that I won't be happy if/when we make deals that make the team worse, but only save him money and can't be spent elsewhere to make the team better.

 

[LoPo]

At least for me, I understand and expect Ryan to manage his money and offload Favors. It's also true that I won't be happy if/when we make deals that make the team worse, but only save him money and can't be spent elsewhere to make the team better.

If Ryan really wants to save money...
If Conley wants LA, we should trade:

Conley and Favors
for
Kuzma, Harrell, THT and a draft asset

Trading Harrell and his $9 million expiring would be easy. We would get an asset for it trading him to Charlotte, Miami, etc.

Trading Favors will cost us an asset. We need to include him in a Conley or Bojan deal. Outside of that, just keep the guy.

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[The Thriller]

Dang that’s a lot of money. What sucks is moving him will most likely cost us an asset. And we’re in need of assets to win a title. Or at least get to the WCFs.

What a cluster

 

[LoPo]

There's a way to avoid the luxury all together but nobody is really talking about it. If Mike decides to leave, then we could just trade Rudy to Charlotte into their abundant cap space for a load of future picks and young prospects.

We could have space for a max contract next summer if Joe leaves. We would have big expirings of Bojan and Favors to use with Charlotte draft picks.

We could put a big three together next summer.

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[Ineptimusprime]

Teams with cap space that might give us a draft pick to take Ingles or Bogey into it? Who are they, and why do they do the deal?

I’m interested in tax saving moves that net us an asset, not require us to give up an asset.

 

[latin jazz]

There's a way to avoid the luxury all together but nobody is really talking about it. If Mike decides to leave, then we could just trade Rudy to Charlotte into their abundant cap space for a load of future picks and young prospects.

We could have space for a max contract next summer if Joe leaves. We would have big expirings of Bojan and Favors to use with Charlotte draft picks.

We could put a big three together next summer.

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We go full rebuild in other words. Not sure we make the playoffs without Mike, Joe, Rudy, Bogie in exchange of assests (or players from Charlotte) and whoever we sign with cap space.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Teams with cap space that might give us a draft pick to take Ingles or Bogey into it? Who are they, and why do they do the deal?

I’m interested in tax saving moves that net us an asset, not require us to give up an asset.

1. Ingles isn’t getting traded. He just isn’t.
2. I’m interested in getting two assets while only giving up one as well. But teams letting us use their asset (cap space) doesn’t usually yield another asset.

On a related note: while the Pacers are interested in moving #13 to get a proven “difference maker”, I looked at their books and I don’t see how the Jazz can offload just Bogey AND receive #13. The Pacers have no bad salary and are over the cap so I guess I should put that hope to bed.

 

[NUMBERICA]

There's a way to avoid the luxury all together but nobody is really talking about it. If Mike decides to leave, then we could just trade Rudy to Charlotte into their abundant cap space for a load of future picks and young prospects.

We could have space for a max contract next summer if Joe leaves. We would have big expirings of Bojan and Favors to use with Charlotte draft picks.

We could put a big three together next summer.

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You gotta be more specific with what assets are returning, and who in 2022 will be available and remotely likely to sign here.

The possibility of trading Gobert into space before July 1 next year is virtually 0 since a team would have to sit on their cap space until October to do the Gobert deal. I have hung some hope on a similar scenario with Cleveland (but for a real asset [#3] not a poo-poo platter of middling assets) but it’s the longest of shots.

 

[Mongoose]

There's a way to avoid the luxury all together but nobody is really talking about it. If Mike decides to leave, then we could just trade Rudy to Charlotte into their abundant cap space for a load of future picks and young prospects.

We could have space for a max contract next summer if Joe leaves. We would have big expirings of Bojan and Favors to use with Charlotte draft picks.

We could put a big three together next summer.

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Wouldn't it be ironic if Charlotte won a title with Rudy and Gordo?

 

[416Klawzz]

Dang that’s a lot of money. What sucks is moving him will most likely cost us an asset. And we’re in need of assets to win a title. Or at least get to the WCFs.

What a cluster

That's a DL speciality

 

[Rubashov]

Looked at the math on good ole capulator... Assuming we bring Conley back and use the taxpayer MLE on a wing... Favs contract will cost us about 70M in tax the next two years in addition to his $20M salary... so essentially 90M.

I said before I wouldn't be in desperation mode on that deal but looking at it now... I'd be anxious as hell to get that deal off the books around the draft. I'd be willing to do a deal that looks pretty ****** on the surface to have the certainty the deal was off the ledger. I'm talking Favs + 30 to Charlotte for McDaniels + 57 ... Maybe the Favs to OKC with a 2024 lotto protected pick for Roby/Williams (hopefully both) and maybe a second this year.

DL truly hamstrung us with this one... either we sell low on Favs... let Mike walk... trade another more important piece for less salary... or pay through our damn *** for a backup center who can't handle every night backup duties because he needs to be managed. Good hell.

This isnt actually a terrilbe idea (unlike my decision to wear a mankini to a work function.)

I would say this new ownership seem to be bullish and may pay the tax, we could actually get a real asset for favs.

 

[Ineptimusprime]

This isnt actually a terrilbe idea (unlike my decision to wear a mankini to a work function.)

I would say this new ownership seem to be bullish and may pay the tax, we could actually get a real asset for favs.

I don’t think Charlotte does that deal, but I would. Jalen McDaniels is likely to be better than anyone we draft at 30 and fills a need, and we get off Fav’s contract and get a second rounder. We win that trade.

Charlotte would really have to love someone left at 30 to do that deal.

 

[LoPo]

You gotta be more specific with what assets are returning, and who in 2022 will be available and remotely likely to sign here.

The possibility of trading Gobert into space before July 1 next year is virtually 0 since a team would have to sit on their cap space until October to do the Gobert deal. I have hung some hope on a similar scenario with Cleveland (but for a real asset [#3] not a poo-poo platter of middling assets) but it’s the longest of shots.

All based on Mike leaving so we pivot to avoid the luxury and build for the future. So...

Rudy
for
A combination of Rozier, Miles Bridges, PJ Washington, and a boatload of picks

That saves us anywhere from $25 million to $5 million.
-Rozier and PJ saves $10 million.
-Or Bridges and PJ instead which saves about $23 million.
-Or we could take all three, and we still save around $5 million.

Then try to get Lonzo Ball or John Collins using picks and Bojan.
If we can't, we still try to work trades and/or signings.

2021 Lineup (assuming Rozier/PJ trade and no Lonzo/Collins):
Don $28.1
Bojan $18.7
Rozier $17.9
Joe $13.1
Clarkson $12.4
Favors $9.7
Full MLE Player $9.5
Royce $8.8
Washington $4.2
Udoka $2.1
Oni $1.8
#30 $1.6
Hughes $1.5

12 Players - $120 million
Luxury tax is $136
Sign a full MLE player ($9.5)
We avoid the luxury comfortably.

Our cap situation heading into 2022:
Don $30.3
Bojan $19.5 expiring
Clarkson $13.3
Favors $10 expiring
Full MLE from 2021 - $9.7
Royce $9.3
PJ Washington $5.8
Doke $2.2
#30 $1.8
Rozier contract expired
Joe contract expired

That's only $101 million of contracts and $30 of it is expiring Bojan and Favors.
We could trade picks and Bojan/Favors for a good player.
Then sign a max contract player.
Boom - Big 3. We still have Clarkson and Royce too.
And hopefully PJ, Doke, and #30 have developed.
Maybe we can find a way to keep Rozier too, or we could S&T him for more value.

2021 would be a fight to make the playoffs, but I think we could do it. From there we could have a brighter future than we do right now.

 

[KqWIN]

The “I don’t care about Ryan’s money” narrative is kinda naive. If he was spending 90M to keep a key cog then it makes sense… for our 8th man? I just don’t see it. These guys don’t make mega billions by not worrying about spend and being wasteful… a tax deduction is cool but trust me… they’d rather have the money.

Right, I'm not even expecting him to pay it. But if he does it has zero impact on my life and I don't know why people get concerned about a billionaire spending some change. I don't know how, but for some reason fans share the "pain" of owners paying luxury tax. I understand being skeptical of their willingness to pay, I don't understand why you feel that burden if they do pay.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Right, I'm not even expecting him to pay it. But if he does it has zero impact on my life and I don't know why people get concerned about a billionaire spending some change. I don't know how, but for some reason fans share the "pain" of owners paying luxury tax. I understand being skeptical of their willingness to pay, I don't understand why you feel that burden if they do pay.

It’s because it surely will factor into other decisions. For instance if Mike needs 25M to stay vs 20M it’s a whole lot more reasonable if you don’t have Favs on the books… same thing with the taxpayer MLE. We can say finances don’t matter… billionaire… yada yada but the fact is the basketball and the finances are related. If you care about one then you should care about the other.

 

[KqWIN]

It’s because it surely will factor into other decisions. For instance if Mike needs 25M to stay vs 20M it’s a whole lot more reasonable if you don’t have Favs on the books… same thing with the taxpayer MLE. We can say finances don’t matter… billionaire… yada yada but the fact is the basketball and the finances are related. If you care about one then you should care about the other.

Once again...I do understand the implications. But I also understand that the penalty has zero impact on me. Tax penalty is 100% Ryan Smith. Obviously his decision effects the basketball product, but simply talking about the penalty, zero impact on anyone but his finances. I understand if he doesn't want to spend his money, but if he does I'm not feeling sorry him.

I don't believe Ryan Smith could be so unaware that he didn't know the tax bill was coming, so that gives me some hope that he doesn't care either. But then again, he just sold a second round pick to save what...200k on Rayjon Tucker. This is after spending $3M in cash for Elijah Hughes....so maybe he isn't all there.

When it comes down to it, I expect our first round pick to be traded to dump salary. If it doesn't, I think it's all but guaranteed that Conley is gone. Don't see all of the salary coming back next year.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Once again...I do understand the implications. But I also understand that the penalty has zero impact on me. Tax penalty is 100% Ryan Smith. Obviously his decision effects the basketball product, but simply talking about the penalty, zero impact on anyone but his finances. I understand if he doesn't want to spend his money, but if he does I'm not feeling sorry him.

I don't believe Ryan Smith could be so unaware that he didn't know the tax bill was coming, so that gives me some hope that he doesn't care either. But then again, he just sold a second round pick to save what...200k on Rayjon Tucker. This is after spending $3M in cash for Elijah Hughes....so maybe he isn't all there.

When it comes down to it, I expect our first round pick to be traded to dump salary. If it doesn't, I think it's all but guaranteed that Conley is gone. Don't see all of the salary coming back next year.

Yeah I don't want to talk in circles... I get the penalty is on him... but he will do things that could hurt the on court to skirt the penalty (which is likely the outcome) and that is why fans care and pay attention to this stuff... just explaining the rationale. Very few owners spend into eternal tax and those owners are usually the title favorites or they were like the Warriors last year (guessing they'd like a refund on the Oubre deal).

I think he trusted that DL had a handle on things. Likely knew a tax bill was coming but that it wasn't going to be out of hand. Ryan can't micromanage everything... so you trust competent help. DL was either negligent, ignorant, or lazy with regard to his cap management. I think its part of the reason he's no longer in charge. The Tucker move was inconsistent... not sure they messed up the math... or knew the math and then decided to give themselves a shot at ducking the tax even though they knew it was likely impossible. The Tucker deal makes no sense unless you thought you were inching closer to ducking the tax. Call it whatever you like... the ****ed up and I feel like I was proven right since he got his walking papers (after the team was really successful nonetheless).

I think they will try to move money around the margins and jump on a deal to get off Favs salary with the pick as the incentive. I don't agree that it means Conley is gone... I think he gets a fair offer either way. I think if he comes back you don't use the taxpayer MLE unless something amazing comes around... and if it does I think you move Bogey or JC for a lower salaried player.

 

[NAOS]

At least we got two different Derricks for our money. One looked like a guy that was a starter-level center who could unlock a bevy of different lineup combinations and be a net positive. The other, though, could barely move on any given night.

In the end, we clearly got too much of the latter. Definitely needs to be moved.