Favs Deal Must Be Moved

[Ineptimusprime]

The Tucker deal showed gross incompotence and while I get what you're saying about feeling validated with DL's ousting, the guy who was running day to day and most of the FO is still here. Everyone in that FO who let it happen should be ashamed because messing up the numbers is not a one man job.

If I were running things, I'd try to move off of Bogey and Clarkson for younger and cheaper cost controlled players or draft picks. We had a two year window to compete, we failed, so now it's time to restructure as the focus should be DM's next contract. I just don't see us doing that, however, and it's also difficult to find those moves because the draft is before free agency. Teams that would want those players are looking to win now and probably have higher hopes for their space. Favors would be a salary dump situation to a bad team so it's much more realistic imo.

I think that the Jazz will have a good idea of where Conley sits before the draft. Maybe not, because they failed to get a good read on Hayward, but in theory the Jazz should be fairly certain if he's coming back or not. Negations start way before the moratorium. If they are picking for themselves on draft night I think it's a tell that they know Conley is not coming back because I don't think Smith will choose the pick over $90M and Favors. I just have a hard time seeing all the salary coming back, and Favors is the obvious place to cut it.

Especially if the pick is Ayo Dosunmu.

If Ayo hits, I actually think a bigger PG like Ayo is an incredible long-term fit next to Don.

 

[LoPo]

I don't think we get value back for Favs.. I think we'd be the ones giving picks in most of these deals. The NY one not so much... I think we could flip Knox to OKC and take the full savings. Nesmith and Langford is like incredibly slanted.

I'm being optimistic for sure.

I think New Orleans is a very clear possibility. The loved Favors but probably didn't want to pay what Utah gave. They might not like it now either, but they missed his off the court qualities this last year. He would seem to fit with Zion and Ingram too.

The NY deal is possible except for Favors' 2022-23 number. I think they are going for a full on culture rebuild and he would help with that.

The Boston one is a massive stretch, but it will be interesting to see what they do. Maybe we could just go Favors for Tristan Thompson straight up. They make the same next year, but maybe Boston values Favors more. Expiring Tristan could held onto until the deadline where hopefully he could be flipped for something.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'm being optimistic for sure.

I think New Orleans is a very clear possibility. The loved Favors but probably didn't want to pay what Utah gave. They might not like it now either, but they missed his off the court qualities this last year. He would seem to fit with Zion and Ingram too.

The NY deal is possible except for Favors' 2022-23 number. I think they are going for a full on culture rebuild and he would help with that.

The Boston one is a massive stretch, but it will be interesting to see what they do. Maybe we could just go Favors for Tristan Thompson straight up. They make the same next year, but maybe Boston values Favors more. Expiring Tristan could held onto until the deadline where hopefully he could be flipped for something.

I think once NO went with Adams that the door to a Favs deal is shut. They still have Hayes waiting on the wings and don't have the salary maneuverability that OKC/NY have.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The only teams who are going to want Favors are teams who have another center who they only want to play 20 mpg, so they need another guy in that mid-price range.

I think the Lakers are a perfect fit if they want him because Harrell is only like a 20-25 mpg player, so you can slot in Favors easily at 15-20 mpg. The problem is that even in limited minutes Favors still looked like an old man instead of a 29 year old.

 

[KqWIN]

Fan opinions =/= FO opinions...but I'm pretty sure NOP were not happy with Favs stint there.

I don't think we get value back for Favors. We'd be the team giving up draft capital.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The only teams who are going to want Favors are teams who have another center who they only want to play 20 mpg, so they need another guy in that mid-price range.

I think the Lakers are a perfect fit if they want him because Harrell is only like a 20-25 mpg player, so you can slot in Favors easily at 15-20 mpg. The problem is that even in limited minutes Favors still looked like an old man instead of a 29 year old.

I think teams like Charlotte and Sacramento would also be interested since they don't have guys at the position. I think Lakers are actually a poor fit because of cap mechanics... they need to offload some salary and can get pretty good bang for their buck with minimum centers (Drummond, Gasol, etc.) Use the additional $8M for other things.

The market for him will be limited and likely no team is excited about his salary (its not crazy but its more than you'd like to pay).

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I think teams like Charlotte and Sacramento would also be interested since they don't have guys at the position. I think Lakers are actually a poor fit because of cap mechanics... they need to offload some salary and can get pretty good bang for their buck with minimum centers (Drummond, Gasol, etc.) Use the additional $8M for other things.

The market for him will be limited and likely no team is excited about his salary (its not crazy but its more than you'd like to pay).

Richaun Holmes was pretty good in the 2nd half for Sacramento, I got to think they keep him and want him to play big minutes.

 

[LoPo]

The only teams who are going to want Favors are teams who have another center who they only want to play 20 mpg, so they need another guy in that mid-price range.

I think the Lakers are a perfect fit if they want him because Harrell is only like a 20-25 mpg player, so you can slot in Favors easily at 15-20 mpg. The problem is that even in limited minutes Favors still looked like an old man instead of a 29 year old.

It's possible that Harrell declines his player option so he can move on elsewhere. At that point, the Lakers are:
LeBron $41
AD $35
KCP $13
Kuzma $13
Gasol $2.7
#22 $2.3
TOTAL - $107
Even with roster fill out requirements, they will have a little cap room.

Maybe they consider either:
Favors for Gasol (saves us money, gives LA a center option)
Favors and assets for Kuzma (saves LA money but they can get more)

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Fan opinions =/= FO opinions...but I'm pretty sure NOP were not happy with Favs stint there.

I don't think we get value back for Favors. We'd be the team giving up draft capital.

I think the best we can hope for would be one of these deals...

-Favs and #30 to charlotte for 56/57 and Mcdaniels.
-Favs and #30 to Sacramento for Wright and #39 (I think this is slanted in our favor)
-Favs and #30 to OKC for #55 and Roby or Williams (they have infinity picks though)
-Or a scary option... Favs and a 2024 top 10-14ish protected pick to OKC for Roby/Williams/#36 this year. The protections would be such that if it fell in the lotto multiple years in a row that it would turn into two second rounders. The idea here is that OKC needs to get value for a couple pieces and a second rounder and gets a future asset which I assume is their preference.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Richaun Holmes was pretty good in the 2nd half for Sacramento, I got to think they keep him and want him to play big minutes.

Probably right... his price tag could get rich. He wants 20M reportedly... I think its closer to $15M. Metu is fairly solid so maybe no interest in Favs. If they drafted a center like Sengun in the first round then Favs may be a good comprise if they don't want to pay up for Holmes (they cheaped out on Bogdanovic so who knows).

 

[SoberasHotRod]

If we are able to move on from Favors, we'll need a cheap vet. I have no faith in Dok as a rotation player right now. I know it was only garbage time, but we must have been outscored by a ton in his time on the court and our defence was amazingly bad.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Richaun Holmes was pretty good in the 2nd half for Sacramento, I got to think they keep him and want him to play big minutes.

I think a team is gonna make a play for him like Toronto. Assuming he wasn't just playing for a contract, he could be a really good get for someone that needs a good non-shooting big.

 

[Miggs]

We can’t do this til October but I’m down for:

Rozier (just 27 y/o next year), Bridges, 2021 1st (#11), 2021 2nd (#56), and a 2023 protected (top 5) 1st for Gobert.

Trade Favors and a 2022 2nd to OKC.

Try to S&T Conley but do no take back dumb salary. If he walks, he walks. That might be the best move.

Get on Udoka to be a ****ing beast and be in the best (semi-leanest, quickest) shape of his life. Tell him, you’re the starting center now. We need lockdown defense. Have Mitchell et al up his *** about arriving early and staying late.

This puts us at 104M, or about 8M under the cap, gets us a ******** younger, and doesn’t take into consideration that we could round out the roster with that remaining 8M (probably a little less after cheaper guys, rookies), the full MLE, and the 11th and 30th picks in the draft. Go hard after Batum, Gay or someone of that ilk. Sign Caruso and Hernangomez on the cheap so we actually have a backup point guard. Maybe go after Aminu too on the super cheap.
Draft BPA at 11.
Trade back from 30 to acquire a couple 2nds. Draft two more BPA’s. Or use 11, 30, the 2nd, and a future pick to move up…or move down. We’d actually have a lot of assets for once. Of course, this can’t happen til October but it could be done on draft day essentially and then triggered months later.

Rozier-Caruso
Mitchell-Clarkson
O’Neale-Bridges
Bogdanovic-Ingles
Udoka-Hernangomez

And that roster doesn’t include who we’d draft at 11, in the 2nd, or the fact that we also acquired a 2023 1st from Charlotte. I also don’t see some monstrous dropoff here. I have faith Udoka can be a heck of a center. Not necessarily DPOY but who knows. He was damn good at KU and was also as insanely efficient on offense like Gobert is. I know Gobert puts up all-time efficiency numbers. I’m simply saying I don’t think Udoka would be a disaster there and could actually surprise us. Perhaps, most importantly, we’d have assets for once and get a ******** younger and could grow the next couple years into something more formidable overall.

 

[416Klawzz]

I hate told-you-so's, generally, but...

A handful of years ago, I was basically run off the board (by Fish and a few other dullards) for suggesting that the jury was still out on DL. At the time, I pointed out that DL had inherited a playoff team with 2 near-all stars (Millsap proved to be an all-star upon leaving) and four young lottery picks, but had yet to build a team any better than the one he inherited (or the ones KOC had built in the initial post-S2M era).

Well, there were 9 post-S2M KOC Jazz teams and now 9 post-KOC DL teams, and I think it's tough to make the case that DL has done better job in his 9 years than KOC did in his last 9, despite having a much more advantageous starting point:

Record
KOC: 390-332, .540 (44.3 wins over an 82-game season)
DL: 391-327, .545 (44.7 wins over an 82-game season)

Playoffs
KOC: 5 appearances, 4 series wins
DL: 5 appearances, 3 series wins

It's worth reiterating that the Jazz had a stockpile of young talent and a couple expiring near all-stars when DL came on, and the Jazz currently have very little in the way of assets and financial flexibility to improve the current team--although they do have two stars.

DL's not a terrible GM/Executive, mind you, just not a particularly creative or proactive one.

He was great at excuses and justifying standing pat. Also the best at giving away 2nd round picks, getting Korver twice and had a man crush on Bradley. And on on I'm glad that mo fo is gone

 

[LoPo]

We can’t do this til October but I’m down for:

Rozier (just 27 y/o next year), Bridges, 2021 1st (#11), 2021 2nd (#56), and a 2023 protected (top 5) 1st for Gobert.

Trade Favors and a 2022 2nd to OKC.

Try to S&T Conley but do no take back dumb salary. If he walks, he walks. That might be the best move.

Get on Udoka to be a ****ing beast and be in the best (semi-leanest, quickest) shape of his life. Tell him, you’re the starting center now. We need lockdown defense. Have Mitchell et al up his *** about arriving early and staying late.

This puts us at 104M, or about 8M under the cap, gets us a ******** younger, and doesn’t take into consideration that we could round out the roster with that remaining 8M (probably a little less after cheaper guys, rookies), the full MLE, and the 11th and 30th picks in the draft. Go hard after Batum, Gay or someone of that ilk. Sign Caruso and Hernangomez on the cheap so we actually have a backup point guard. Maybe go after Aminu too on the super cheap.
Draft BPA at 11.
Trade back from 30 to acquire a couple 2nds. Draft two more BPA’s. Or use 11, 30, the 2nd, and a future pick to move up…or move down. We’d actually have a lot of assets for once. Of course, this can’t happen til October but it could be done on draft day essentially and then triggered months later.

Rozier-Caruso
Mitchell-Clarkson
O’Neale-Bridges
Bogdanovic-Ingles
Udoka-Hernangomez

And that roster doesn’t include who we’d draft at 11, in the 2nd, or the fact that we also acquired a 2023 1st from Charlotte. I also don’t see some monstrous dropoff here. I have faith Udoka can be a heck of a center. Not necessarily DPOY but who knows. He was damn good at KU and was also as insanely efficient on offense like Gobert is. I know Gobert puts up all-time efficiency numbers. I’m simply saying I don’t think Udoka would be a disaster there and could actually surprise us. Perhaps, most importantly, we’d have assets for once and get a ******** younger and could grow the next couple years into something more formidable overall.

Not a bad plan.

All comes down to Mike. If he stays, maybe don't do this. If he leaves, this has to be considered.

 

[Goodluckchuck]

I’m one of the biggest Favs homers. But even I cringed when he signed that big of a contract. And drafting Dok along with it made it even worse.

 

[JimLes]

It's worth reiterating that the Jazz had a stockpile of young talent and a couple expiring near all-stars when DL came on, and the Jazz currently have very little in the way of assets and financial flexibility to improve the current team--although they do have two stars.

This is the key thing, really. DL made some good draft decisions, but everything else has been pretty poor.

For one, there were entirely too many situations where the Jazz let players walk and got nothing in return. There is no way in hell that no one was willing to offer anything of value for a 27-year old Millsap who would instantly rattle off 4 straight All-Star appearances and a 28-year old Jefferson who would immediately lead the freaking Hornets to playoffs.

They were allowed to walk because Kanter and Favors were supposed to be our future Twin Towers and take us to a championship right about now. We all know how that worked out, but why did we have to wait until Kanter became worthless to trade him? What bothers me the most about that trade is that OKC gave up Jackson in it(man, he'd have been nice to have about a month ago, eh?) but just not to us. We got the corpse of Kendrick Perkins, a dude named Tibor, and some guy basketball-reference swears played a few games for the Jazz but I'll have to take them at their word. Oh, and a draft pick that would eventually become Ricky Rubio whom Lindsey then allowed to walk for nothing.

Then two FRPs were traded for Burke, who was of course utter garbage, and was then traded to the Wizards for a 2021 2RP. Do I even have to point out that we no longer even own that pick? Then that same summer Burke is unloaded, the Jazz have the 12th pick in a draft where there would be tons of decent players in late first round and early second round, but that ends up going towards a 1-year rental of George Hill. Of course, of course, he walks for nothing. So does Gordon Hayward. Looking back at it, someone really should've talked to him the summer before to figure out whether he actually wanted to resign.

He got Derrick Rose in a trade and then cut him. The Knicks were willing to trade a 2RP and a young player for him 3 years later! You're telling me nothing could've been gotten for Rose at the time?

Tons of other players were allowed to walk, too. DeMare Carroll, for one. We held on to Miles and Burks until they had absolutely no value and were either allowed to walk or traded for a taxidermied Korver. Thomas Bryant and Josh Hart were traded for Bradley and we had to then throw in a player to convince the Pistons to take him off our hands. The Pistons gave up jack all in that trade.

Even the Rodney Hood situation, where he was traded for Crowder, who was then packaged to get Conley, who might simply walk in a month, might end up being like this.

Lindsey is a master of trades where the Jazz within 3-5 years end up with nothing to show for them. He lets players walk in the way teams who actually have a chance at marquee free agents let players walk. He just ends up turning assets(however meager they may be) into nothing.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

This is the key thing, really. DL made some good draft decisions, but everything else has been pretty poor.

For one, there were entirely too many situations where the Jazz let players walk and got nothing in return. There is no way in hell that no one was willing to offer anything of value for a 27-year old Millsap who would instantly rattle off 4 straight All-Star appearances and a 28-year old Jefferson who would immediately lead the freaking Hornets to playoffs.

They were allowed to walk because Kanter and Favors were supposed to be our future Twin Towers and take us to a championship right about now. We all know how that worked out, but why did we have to wait until Kanter became worthless to trade him? What bothers me the most about that trade is that OKC gave up Jackson in it(man, he'd have been nice to have about a month ago, eh?) but just not to us. We got the corpse of Kendrick Perkins, a dude named Tibor, and some guy basketball-reference swears played a few games for the Jazz but I'll have to take them at their word. Oh, and a draft pick that would eventually become Ricky Rubio whom Lindsey then allowed to walk for nothing.

Then two FRPs were traded for Burke, who was of course utter garbage, and was then traded to the Wizards for a 2021 2RP. Do I even have to point out that we no longer even own that pick? Then that same summer Burke is unloaded, the Jazz have the 12th pick in a draft where there would be tons of decent players in late first round and early second round, but that ends up going towards a 1-year rental of George Hill. Of course, of course, he walks for nothing. So does Gordon Hayward. Looking back at it, someone really should've talked to him the summer before to figure out whether he actually wanted to resign.

He got Derrick Rose in a trade and then cut him. The Knicks were willing to trade a 2RP and a young player for him 3 years later! You're telling me nothing could've been gotten for Rose at the time?

Tons of other players were allowed to walk, too. DeMare Carroll, for one. We held on to Miles and Burks until they had absolutely no value and were either allowed to walk or traded for a taxidermied Korver. Thomas Bryant and Josh Hart were traded for Bradley and we had to then throw in a player to convince the Pistons to take him off our hands. The Pistons gave up jack all in that trade.

Even the Rodney Hood situation, where he was traded for Crowder, who was then packaged to get Conley, who might simply walk in a month, might end up being like this.

Lindsey is a master of trades where the Jazz within 3-5 years end up with nothing to show for them. He lets players walk in the way teams who actually have a chance at marquee free agents let players walk. He just ends up turning assets(however meager they may be) into nothing.

Wasn’t Millsap and Al under the KOC tenure.

I have my issues with DL most are about wasted cap space and mismanaging contracts and the cap.

 

[JimLes]

Wasn’t Millsap and Al under the KOC tenure.

No. A year after he left.

They were allowed to walk the same summer we traded those picks for Burke.

KOC's last transactions as the GM were trading Harris for Marvin Williams and signing Foye.

 

[homeytennis]

I’m one of the biggest Favs homers. But even I cringed when he signed that big of a contract. And drafting Dok along with it made it even worse.

This will further make you cry. I came upon a mock draft that was done by someone in the league office. The good news is that they had Hughes as a late first round pick. The bad news is they had Dok a very late second round pick even after Sam Merrill who was Mr. Irrelevant.