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Game Thread Feb 16, 2022 08:00PM MT: Jazz at Lakers

Added to Calendar: 02-16-22

The Thriller said:
It's weird how easily Jazz fans will attack Rudy for his offensive limitations while giving our guards a pass. Perhaps our guards need to be better at seeing the court? I understand that long defenders give our short guys trouble. But physical limitations don't seem to stop Jazz fans from attacking Rudy's high center of gravity.

All I know is that there were several times we ignored our bigs last night. So much so that even Doris Burke was talking about it. Our inability to make defenses pay by switching their smalls onto our bigs really dooms our offense since we can't always depend on the the 3 ball to go in.
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Believe me, it's everything but easy. I really like the big guy and everything he does and stand for.
But it does not blind me basketball wise.
I get our guards and wings know how to mess it up, and they do kill the team when they're casual... and some of them take no factual accountability nor they are charged with it.
But it's one of our guards who's gonna take us the farthest.
Rudy demands so much perfection and execution around him that you can see the plays that have to be done many times get doomed by the proper over-execution habits that grows around him.
And time and time again the big fella has shown his bad hands and lack of definición against les ser dudes down there...
Just MHO of course, but that's what I've been watching for a long long time now.
I believe some better brand of baskerall can be played. One more reliant on general talent around, and not so much on absolute perfection on execution.

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TheGoldStandard said:
Too me that isn't the issue. I just didn't want him based on what we had to pay to get him.

We lost Crowder, 2 frps, Allen and KK for an undersized PG added to an already undersized backcourt. It was a bad decision.

On top of that, he is paid a lot, which takes away flexibility to add other players.

I really like Conley, but that trade was really bad.
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There's truth in what you said.
And there's some brass habits that need to be changed, in particular the repeated trend of getting in love with players and never understand when to cash on them.
You cannot always buy and pay tour talent capital. Sometimes you've got to sell some to fill your tank.

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The game is tied with two minutes left. Quin doesn't have something in his bag of tricks to win this? One thing that beat us was a rookie UDFA knocking down a 3. Do the Jazz always swallow the rope?
 
outerspacefan said:
There's truth in what you said.
And there's some brass habits that need to be changed, in particular the repeated trend of getting in love with players and never understand when to cash on them.
You cannot always buy and pay tour talent capital. Sometimes you've got to sell some to fill your tank.

Sent from my SM-G780G using JazzFanz mobile app
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Problem is, the talent in our tank is old and not worth what we paid for it. Honestly, what could we get for Conley? Nothing close to two FRPs, Allen, Korver and Crowder.

The Jazz have invested into luxury tax without luxury talent. The only way out is to sell for a loss.
 
KqWIN said:
Expecting Quin to be a psychic and predict that a player is going to have a random bad moment...that's not reasonable.

Using basic common sense strategy against a one man team....that's a reasonable adjustment that we simply aren't capable of making.
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To be fair, it’s really not that simple. Lebron has beat better teams in the playoffs with less help.
 
NUMBERICA said:
To be fair, it’s really not that simple. Lebron has beat better teams in the playoffs with less help.
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And how is that relevant to LeBron playing with this terrible team that is 24th in offense and wasn't playing with AD? LeBron was playing with a bunch of cans last night. It was also a two way issue. Lakers made an adjustment on defense, and it was met by zero adjustments by the Jazz offense despite having ideal personnel to meet that adjustment. The Jazz lost the lead on both ends. Allowed the Lakers to remove Mitchell from the game without punishing them and also allowed LeBron to have any matchup/shot he wanted.

This isn't a Lakers or LeBron specific issue. The Jazz have been bad year after year in the clutch and have been embarrassed in the playoffs after building large series leads. Fact is, Quin cannot adjust when other coaches adjust. Things change when things get close and it's late or when it's deeper in the series and teams do their scouting.

I just refuse to believe that, "get the ball out of the best player's hands" was too difficult to implement in real time. The Lakers did exactly that to Mitchell. If we hard doubled LeBron and THT and WB started draining 3's that would be one thing, but there was no effort to make LeBron uncomfortable. We literally let him pick any 1v1 matchup he wanted and tee up his signature shot.

How low is your standard of coaching if it's too much to ask a coach to adjust when the other one does? Frank Vogel must be a freaking god for coming up with "double the only guy who's doing anything" strategy.
 
fishonjazz said:
So you think he should not be getting points rebounds and assists? Weird


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Oh ****, now you're projecting bro. Let's use some reading comprehension.

I'm saying that if the game (score of the game) is out of reach Lebron is only out on the floor to get his stats. I've said it in two separate posts that you've read that he legitimately takes plays off. That means he doesn't get back on defense. Why should the rest of his team play hard 48 minutes out of the game, but Bron Bron can get a pass with playing one side of the court?

Looks like he's deceived you into believing his stats are genuine and that he put extra effort into every game. There's plenty of footage of him not getting back on defense and watching his team play 4 on 5.
 
fishonjazz said:
So you think he should not be getting points rebounds and assists? Weird


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And let me just say this. No BS. If Don or Rudy pulled stunts like that the entire Jazz fan base would want their head on a pike. I don't understand why so many of our fans are submissive to a pampered athlete like Lebron. Is he a once in a lifetime athlete? Yes. Is he a great basketball player? Yes. But does he have the track record of being called the greatest basketball player of all time when he doesn't give his all every game that he plays? Not to me.

Not to mention he's played with so many ball of famers, all stars, solid veterans. Any athlete of the past would've loved to have an entire roster tailor made for them at the drop of the hat.
 
Regardless of all of our supposed weaknesses we were still up by five points with four and half minutes to play, and my biggest concern as always is our struggles to close out close games. So from the four and a half minute mark, still up by five points nobody attempted a shot except for Donovan Mitchell until after missing three consecutive shots including a routine layup, Bogey took a long three with 37 clicks left on the clock which he made followed shortly by another two pointer (too little, too late). Donovan went on to miss a fourth consecutive shot (a three down by four) to finish out the game. He's never hit a game winner in how many years is it @infection? and yet we continue to go iso Mitchell, I mean how stupid is that? One of those bad shots was a stare down three from 29 feet out score tied. Absolutely no attempt to make anything happen in the blender. This is on Snyder!

And then there was the infamous bad pass from Royce back to Conley when he should have pulled the trigger on the three. I feel like that's another conditioned response, "Oh wait, I better not, it's Mitchell time!" Sloan was a great coach and yet so so predictable down the stretch, everybody in the NBA knew exactly what was going to happen, it was going to be a pick and roll, Stock to Malone. And here we are thirty years later and we're still stuck with the same predictable nonsense except now it's not even a two man play with options - just get it to Mitchell. This is even worse than Sloan's predictability. Bet Sloan had a better record in close games.

Other than that, I thought we looked pretty good for the most part. I would have liked to have seen more minutes for Forrest (12 & change) and a little less for Conley, especially down the stretch. I would have loved to have seen my boy Dok make an appearance. That slight after some stellar play was conspicuous but not unexpected from Snyder. Dok has the best hands of any of our big men and when he finishes over you, it's not quickly forgotten. When you're primarily a finesse team, you gotta have some dawgs IMO. Oh and I absolutely loved Royce chirping at Lebron after that academy award performance got shot down..........we need more of that!
 
The Fresh Prince said:
Im referring to games that are already out of hand where he takes complete plays off, doesn't get back on defense and remains on the court solely to get extra points, rebounds, and assists. It's been glaringly visible this year.
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Most players over 35 have periods like that, especially when they are playing 30+ minutes.
 
infection said:
The reason we lost is because we didn’t get those NAW minutes we were promised.
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This actually might not be a joke. Given the problems that our 'system' players have against switchy, 5-out teams, the Jazz should try replacing Royce with NAW. Give him the same low-usage, spot-up shooter role, but let him create off the dribble when Mitchell gets doubled. Lets see what he can do in a 4-on-3 situation. Basically, hypnotize him and tell him he's Andre Iguodala playing for the Warriors.

Otherwise, it's possible that Trent Forrest can give the Jazz what they need, even though he's a negative-gravity shooter. He can at least drive in the paint and make something happen, or kick back out. Jazz need another guy who can play off the dribble and who doesn't suck on defense.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
This actually might not be a joke. Given the problems that our 'system' players have against switchy, 5-out teams, the Jazz should try replacing Royce with NAW. Give him the same low-usage, spot-up shooter role, but let him create off the dribble when Mitchell gets doubled. Lets see what he can do in a 4-on-3 situation. Basically, hypnotize him and tell him he's Andre Iguodala playing for the Warriors.

Otherwise, it's possible that Trent Forrest can give the Jazz what they need, even though he's a negative-gravity shooter. He can at least drive in the paint and make something happen, or kick back out. Jazz need another guy who can play off the dribble and who doesn't suck on defense.
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Whether it’s Pascall or Naw or even House, I would love to see Snyder dare to mix up his rotations. Sitting gobert or Conley in crunch is probably too difficult politically, but there is no reason Royce has to be out there.
 
The Fresh Prince said:
When did Stockton and Malone only play one side of the court, and watch their team play 4 on 5?
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If they had in the regular season we probably would have won more in the playoffs. Those two were so beat up in most playoffs. Teams and players are much smarter these days in regards to this.
 
The Fresh Prince said:
Oh ****, now you're projecting bro. Let's use some reading comprehension.

I'm saying that if the game (score of the game) is out of reach Lebron is only out on the floor to get his stats. I've said it in two separate posts that you've read that he legitimately takes plays off. That means he doesn't get back on defense. Why should the rest of his team play hard 48 minutes out of the game, but Bron Bron can get a pass with playing one side of the court?

Looks like he's deceived you into believing his stats are genuine and that he put extra effort into every game. There's plenty of footage of him not getting back on defense and watching his team play 4 on 5.
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Literally every player plays differently in garbage time lol. But you expect lebron to be the exception.
Also, I have seen games when the game is out of reach and lebron is on the bench with the rest of the starters. You just want to hate.
 
The Fresh Prince said:
And let me just say this. No BS. If Don or Rudy pulled stunts like that the entire Jazz fan base would want their head on a pike. I don't understand why so many of our fans are submissive to a pampered athlete like Lebron. Is he a once in a lifetime athlete? Yes. Is he a great basketball player? Yes. But does he have the track record of being called the greatest basketball player of all time when he doesn't give his all every game that he plays? Not to me.

Not to mention he's played with so many ball of famers, all stars, solid veterans. Any athlete of the past would've loved to have an entire roster tailor made for them at the drop of the hat.
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Lol. I have seen rudy and don take plays off. especially in garbage time. I have actually seen every player I have ever watched take plays off.
 
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