Feeling Better About This Team
- Thread starter Handlogten's Heros
- Start date
Yeah, I really resonate with this. I almost never watch games live anymore, I just cannot take it. I watch it on LP afterwards so I can fast forward as needed. Honestly, I feel like I brace myself for watching a game instead of getting excited for it.
I obviously think there are some needed roster changes but more and more I think the priority is a coaching change. I mentioned in a previous post that almost every first time championship team in the last 20 years had a relatively new coach lead them there. It is very common for one coach to lay the foundation and then have another coach come in to finish the job.
Quin did the work to get this team to a winning place. He did lay the foundation. He put a system in place and demonstrated how guys like Rudy, and Donovan, and Clarkson can be successful. He got them like 80% of the way there. They just need someone else with some fresh ideas and different leadership style to get them to the next level. I really hope the Jazz have a new coach next year.
It's only certain teams that are the Jazz's kryptonite. Teams with a dynamic small-ball 5, who have long, athletic switching defenders. It's why the Jazz can't beat the Miami Heat, and the Lakers are the same when they play Lebron at the 5. It's the scenario the Jazz faced against the Clippers when they played Batum or Morris at the 5. The Jazz are just not the same team against that type of lineup, and the whole league knows it.
Given where the Jazz are, the best adjustment to their closing lineup against teams that go small might actually be to take Mike Conley off the floor. The Jazz play Conley and Gobert together as a permanent pick-and-roll combination, but that gets shut down by teams that switch. If Conley can't make a play to beat his defender and break the paint, then we can't rely on him as a primary initiator. The alternative is to treat him as purely an outside shooter and take either Royce or Bojan off the floor. In any case, the Jazz need to put one more guy on the floor who can make a play off the dribble, as Royce, Bojan and Rudy can't do it.
I remember watching Conley play against the Heat earlier this year. He was the smallest player on the floor, and he honestly couldn't do much. He needed a lot of space and could barely get shots off over closeouts from guys like Tyler Herro. Defensively, teams with small-ball 5s cause us problems, but offensively, we get hamstrung by teams that switch and trap.
I remember watching Conley play against the Heat earlier this year. He was the smallest player on the floor, and he honestly couldn't do much. He needed a lot of space and could barely get shots off over closeouts from guys like Tyler Herro. Defensively, teams with small-ball 5s cause us problems, but offensively, we get hamstrung by teams that switch and trap.
jom2003
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We can do that for one game but Conley still would be our long term point guard. unless he gets hurt and takes his scheduled time off then we could be “forced” to do something different.
jom2003
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Yep, against small lineup we just fold both offensively and defensively. Guys wanna talk about defense but teams shut us down on offense by going small as well.
Outside of Donovan our offensive players just rely way too much on spacing, mismatch and screen assist, none of those would be available once teams go small and switch on everything.
I think that's actually the biggest problem. Our defense might miss rotations against teams that space the floor, but that alone doesn't give up 16-0 runs. If we could have responded offensively last night, we'd have still won by several possessions. Plus we wouldn't have let the Lakers get out in transition.
Something has to change in our closing lineup. I don't care if Conley starts games and gets his 27 minutes. Royce, Bojan and Rudy can't play off the dribble. For whatever reason, neither could Mike last night. So someone has to come off the floor in favor of someone else who can drive, pass and shoot.
jom2003
Well-Known Member
Yep, that's why I called out Bogey, Conely and Jingles. “BUt THEy Are tOo ImpoRTaNt tO OuR OFfEnSE”...... Yeah for an offense that only works in regular season... This team is flawed and doomed from the very beginning
Handlogten's Heros
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I feel like I may have doomed us... I will go walk into the ocean now. Sorry folks.
jom2003
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Have to move some of our main guys to change our closing lineup. Like a different coach could changed our closing lineup for some nights, but on most nights we’d still close with DM/Conley/Royce/Bogey/Rudy and that lineup just doesn't stay a chance against playoffs team that go small
LogGrad98
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I have no faith that Quin will change anything. He does not ride the hot hand. He does not play to matchups. He does not adjust for players having an off-night. He will ride and die with his lineups and subs. It is the system. Trust the system. The system is life. Never doubt the system. Never question the system.
But as soon as one of the teams we are likely to face in the post-season, or at least are one of the stronger teams in the league, figure out the system, we have no counter. We have a single combo hook, jab, upper-cut, and that takes out a lot of lesser teams, but the teams with the personnel and knowledge to side-step the upper-cut will beat us because we will continue to hook, jab and upper-cut until we are knocked silly because we have no fall-back.
But as soon as one of the teams we are likely to face in the post-season, or at least are one of the stronger teams in the league, figure out the system, we have no counter. We have a single combo hook, jab, upper-cut, and that takes out a lot of lesser teams, but the teams with the personnel and knowledge to side-step the upper-cut will beat us because we will continue to hook, jab and upper-cut until we are knocked silly because we have no fall-back.
Our only real option who can do all of those things is Clarkson and I really don't think closing games with Clarkson over Conley or Royce is the answer.
It's supposed to be Rudy Gay replacing Royce, imo, but I don't think he's is up to it. The Jazz may have to do something a bit more radical, like play Paschall or see what Nickeil can do against switches.
jom2003
Well-Known Member
It has to be moving one of Conley/Bogey/Royce in the summer to find that second offense option. Some night coach can go with Clarkson Paschall gay or even Butler and it works, but you can't trust these guys on most nights and the closing lineup would still be that fatally flawed Conley/Bogey/Royce combo with Donovan trying to take the matter in his own hand.
I honestly think we just have to hope our starting lineup can figure out how to play better down the stretch of close games...I'm skeptical that it will happen but I'm even more skeptical that Quin will actually make a change to the closing lineup. If healthy, I think Conley/Mitchell/Bogey/Royce/Rudy will be the closing lineup for every single playoff game. Quin has shown time and time again that he's unwilling to adjust or experiment with starting/closing lineups. He has his guys that he trusts and he rides them no matter what.
Handlogten's Heros
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Me for like 2 years "Jazz need an *******" . This isn't about Jae specifically... but I'm guessing we had some opportunities to land dudes like Pat Bev... we need toughness and an *******.
Tony Jones today:
What was different on that Jazz team? They had Jae Crowder, who basically challenged that entire Oklahoma City team to a fight during that series. Crowder wouldn’t allow the Jazz to be punked. And because of that, the series stayed within the realm of schematics, which meant the Jazz won handily.
This Jazz team needs a Jae Crowder. It’s plain as day. It needs a dude that gives other teams pause before engaging in shenanigans. Because right now? Most teams know that they can bump and grind with Utah and throw elbows and talk trash without fear of retribution.
“We have to figure out a way to turn our intensity up, when other teams raise their intensity,” Jazz small forward Royce O’Neale said.
When teams go smaller, the Jazz have to get tougher. When teams throw elbows, the Jazz have to figure out a way to answer. When teams give the Jazz haymakers, the Jazz have to figure out a way to settle things down, take the game above street level and get it back to a level where scheme matters.
Of the teams in the first four spots of the Western Conference, the Jazz are the only one without a guy that nobody wants to deal with physically. Crowder has moved on to the Phoenix Suns, and he and Chris Paul are two of the biggest irritants in the league. Draymond Green drives the Golden State Warriors, so you never see other teams picking on Stephen Curry. The Memphis Grizzlies are full of trash-talkers. Desmond Bane. Ja Morant. Dillon Brooks. And if that fails, you won’t find a single dude in the league who wants to deal with Steven Adams.
The Jazz, they simply don’t have anyone in that vein.
And it shows.
Tony Jones today:
What was different on that Jazz team? They had Jae Crowder, who basically challenged that entire Oklahoma City team to a fight during that series. Crowder wouldn’t allow the Jazz to be punked. And because of that, the series stayed within the realm of schematics, which meant the Jazz won handily.
This Jazz team needs a Jae Crowder. It’s plain as day. It needs a dude that gives other teams pause before engaging in shenanigans. Because right now? Most teams know that they can bump and grind with Utah and throw elbows and talk trash without fear of retribution.
“We have to figure out a way to turn our intensity up, when other teams raise their intensity,” Jazz small forward Royce O’Neale said.
When teams go smaller, the Jazz have to get tougher. When teams throw elbows, the Jazz have to figure out a way to answer. When teams give the Jazz haymakers, the Jazz have to figure out a way to settle things down, take the game above street level and get it back to a level where scheme matters.
Of the teams in the first four spots of the Western Conference, the Jazz are the only one without a guy that nobody wants to deal with physically. Crowder has moved on to the Phoenix Suns, and he and Chris Paul are two of the biggest irritants in the league. Draymond Green drives the Golden State Warriors, so you never see other teams picking on Stephen Curry. The Memphis Grizzlies are full of trash-talkers. Desmond Bane. Ja Morant. Dillon Brooks. And if that fails, you won’t find a single dude in the league who wants to deal with Steven Adams.
The Jazz, they simply don’t have anyone in that vein.
And it shows.
LoPo
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Jazzmix
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Midrange is a big part of our problems in clutch on both ends of the floor. That's also big part in succes of the Suns, both their guards have the spots where they are highly efficient from. We let the opposition shoot it by design, it wasn't the case yesterday, but many times in those close losses against for example Orlando we weren't able to stop it. And that's what awaits us when we face CP3 and Booker. It also creates more danger for a lob. And on the offense our shot chart looks cute and modern but it doesnt help when defenses tighten up in the clutch. Donovan seems to favor going at the rim but he struggles with finishing in those situations. Instead of focusing on developing the Curryesque long 3's I would rather like him to be able to have some spots where he is automatique for two.
Of course another solution is having someone who can bully the way to the rim but we that's the problem of lacking the true athletic wing on the roster we all always cry about.
Of course another solution is having someone who can bully the way to the rim but we that's the problem of lacking the true athletic wing on the roster we all always cry about.