Feeling Better About This Team

[Handlogten's Heros]

I've always wondered why a team with the greatest paint protector ever wouldn't maximize that by playing passing lines really aggressively (since Rudy can clean up if players don't succeed). The other benefit of that is it is more likely to make the opposing offense more skittish about their sets, this conservative scheme with matador perimeter defense allows the opposition to be comfortable.

Or at least toggle between the two approaches a little. Don't want to be Minny or the old Chicago team that gambles all the time but make em think a little? I always figured we didn't have the personnel for it. The Rubio/Thabo group did get a lot of deflections. It seems they are now more aggressive but haven't looked at actual numbers yet.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Trent Forrest (and Udoka Azubuike, for that matter) just had a nice stretch of home games against mediocre or under-manned teams. That's encouraging, but I'm not confident that it will hold against better teams.

Teams are going to back way off of Forrest and dare him to shoot. Teams with defensive size/length will block his passing lanes and cut off his drives to the rim. Even against the Rockets, Forrest was scoreless with 3 turnovers. He's shooting 22% from 3pt this season. He's allowing Conley to play fewer minutes during the regular season, which is great, but the Jazz still need a viable secondary ball handler to replace Joe Ingles' role. Having another ball handler also takes pressure off of Mitchell, so that he can stay fresh on offense and put energy into his defense. Forrest is obviously a plus-defender who gives the Jazz size and toughness in the backcourt. However, certain teams simply won't guard him and will let the Jazz play 4-on-5. This is why I think the door is wide open for NAW or Jared Butler to step in and play a role if they can match Forrest's defensive intensity for limited minutes.

Also, the Jazz are going to need Paschall to emerge as a double-digit scorer in the playoffs. He needs to be a guy who can bully his way to the paint and get a bucket or draw contact. Gay hasn't been able to move well enough to drive the ball on offense. Defenders with plus size won't give Bogdanovic a mismatch he can exploit. The Jazz are still small and offensively limited at the 4, which is what a guy like Harrison Barnes would have helped. Paschall also needs to rebound, or at least box guys out so someone else can rebound. He's got to become the Jazz's version of PJ Tucker.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

House has been a bit of a revelation. Ok, that might be some hyperbole, but boy I did not expect this sort of production from any 10 day contract signing (yeah I know he has a full contract, and I'm happy he does, but that's how he started).

I also love the arrow thing he does after a 3. Like I really enjoy it.

House is able to replicate his role with the Rockets a few years ago. He's a piece that fits the current Jazz really well. He's a 3D wing who can do just enough of what the Jazz need.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Trent Forrest (and Udoka Azubuike, for that matter) just had a nice stretch of home games against mediocre or under-manned teams. That's encouraging, but I'm not confident that it will hold against better teams.

Teams are going to back way off of Forrest and dare him to shoot. Teams with defensive size/length will block his passing lanes and cut off his drives to the rim. Even against the Rockets, Forrest was scoreless with 3 turnovers. He's shooting 22% from 3pt this season. He's allowing Conley to play fewer minutes during the regular season, which is great, but the Jazz still need a viable secondary ball handler to replace Joe Ingles' role. Having another ball handler also takes pressure off of Mitchell, so that he can stay fresh on offense and put energy into his defense. Forrest is obviously a plus-defender who gives the Jazz size and toughness in the backcourt. However, certain teams simply won't guard him and will let the Jazz play 4-on-5. This is why I think the door is wide open for NAW or Jared Butler to step in and play a role if they can match Forrest's defensive intensity for limited minutes.

Also, the Jazz are going to need Paschall to emerge as a double-digit scorer in the playoffs. He needs to be a guy who can bully his way to the paint and get a bucket or draw contact. Gay hasn't been able to move well enough to drive the ball on offense. Defenders with plus size won't give Bogdanovic a mismatch he can exploit. The Jazz are still small and offensively limited at the 4, which is what a guy like Harrison Barnes would have helped. Paschall also needs to rebound, or at least box guys out so someone else can rebound. He's got to become the Jazz's version of PJ Tucker.

Forrest makes the half-court offense ********. I think almost everyone recognizes that. Basketball is more than just half-court offense though.

 

[candrew]

As crazy as it sounds I probably trust House coming off the bench than any other player. And that's only because he was in NBA exile and doesn't want to go back there.

Otherwise, you have Hassan and Clarkson who on any given night can give you an All-Star caliber performance or a net negative performance. Forrest is "sometimey" and Gay is just old.

A lot of things are going to have to swing the right way for Utah to go deep.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Forrest makes the half-court offense ********. I think almost everyone recognizes that. Basketball is more than just half-court offense though.

He's been effective when he can break the paint and get to the rim. He's also had games where he's been unplayable if he can't. Let's say he's being guarded by Marcus Morris or even Ziaire Williams who backs off him 10 feet. Then what?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

As crazy as it sounds I probably trust House coming off the bench than any other player. And that's only because he was in NBA exile and doesn't want to go back there.

Otherwise, you have Hassan and Clarkson who on any given night can give you an All-Star caliber performance or a net negative performance. Forrest is "sometimey" and Gay is just old.

A lot of things are going to have to swing the right way for Utah to go deep.

Come playoff time I think you see Forrest playing like 6 minutes a night. You might survive his rough offense in shorter stints... there may be a short lag time for an adjustment.

House is the guy I feel best about in his role too.

Paschall allows us to make sure Rudy Gay is fresh as a ****ing daisy come playoff time. I think he likely picks his play up a smidge.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

He's been effective when he can break the paint and get to the rim. He's also had games where he's been unplayable if he can't. Let's say he's being guarded by Marcus Morris or even Ziaire Williams who backs off him 10 feet. Then what?

short stints in the playoffs. Two 3 minute stints and you can survive. If he's left wide *** open he just needs to let it fly. In those short stints he could be effective and also it might limit the defense's ability to adjust quickly.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

short stints in the playoffs. Two 3 minute stints and you can survive. If he's left wide *** open he just needs to let it fly. In those short stints he could be effective and also it might limit the defense's ability to adjust quickly.

If the Jazz can get in an up-tempo game where he's pushing the ball, it kind of works. I mean, he's like Elfrid Payton in that sense. But teams like the Grizzlies, Clippers and Suns are probably going to slow him down. Mavs too.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

He's been effective when he can break the paint and get to the rim. He's also had games where he's been unplayable if he can't. Let's say he's being guarded by Marcus Morris or even Ziaire Williams who backs off him 10 feet. Then what?

Then you hope other players make their shots and that the defense Forrest provides on the other end leads to less points for the other team and maybe even result in transition points for your team.

Trade offs.

 

[Qman]

He's been effective when he can break the paint and get to the rim. He's also had games where he's been unplayable if he can't. Let's say he's being guarded by Marcus Morris or even Ziaire Williams who backs off him 10 feet. Then what?

Then you won because those guys aren't guard in Bogey, Donovan or Clarkson.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Then you hope other players make their shots and that the defense Forrest provides on the other end leads to less points for the other team and maybe even result in transition points for your team.

Trade offs.

I also think there is a big difference between him having to play 15-20 minutes versus the 5-10 minutes. I don't know that a team will be able to flip the switch that fast to adjust and leave him open and be effective in helping. If Conley or JC went down I'd be a lot more worried about it. If there was foul trouble and he was forced to play more it might be an issue too I guess.

Assuming he plays like a couple 3 minute stints to eat minutes he may get left open and miss one three? There is also a chance guys just screw up while in rotation and close to him allowing him to drive or find the open shooter.

 

[KqWIN]

I more or less feel the same. The Jazz had won 14 of 16 or 8 of 9....something along those lines before losing 10 of 13. Neither is really a big statement on where this team is as far as the playoffs. The Jazz have dominated in the RS in the past, and our struggles were very related to Covid/injury issues. We didn't take a giant step forward when we were winning, but the sky wasn't also falling when we were losing. I don't think this current stretch of winning is much different....but I do think there are some good and bad things that have come out of the past few weeks.

We've all been talking about more experimentation, and while Quin's hand was forced, we got it. Saw a bunch of new players get time. New lineups and different strategies. Some of our young players showed and and took step a step forward. I think House is proving to be a really nice find and someone that Quin obviously trusts. On top of that, I think the increased tension was mostly positive. I like how Don's reputation as a winner and player is being attached to his defensive effort, and I like how the media is switching stances on "blame everything on Rudy". It was a little too much tension for my liking, but I think the outcome was positive. There's definitely real beef between Don and Rudy, but the friendship angle is always pushed too much in NBA media.

So generally, a lot of this stuff is positive. But I hesitate to say we're a better team because we don't have Ingles. Ingles was terrific in the playoffs last year. Easily our third best player in the Clipper series. He wasn't having a great year, but I still believed in him to step up when it mattered and now the potential for that great player to come back is gone. On top of that Rudy Gay just hasn't looked great since his scorching hot start. I think the alternatives have all looked better (House, Paschall, Whiteside, Dok), but he is definitely not pushing Bogey as a real option to close games. I think are 9-14 looks more strong than last year, but is our 1-8 much better? With Joe gone and Gay looking aged....I'm not sure we are.

For the rest of the season, I hope we see more experimenting by choice. I could not agree more with the idea that Conley needs to be rested more. I think the same should go for Don and Rudy. The Jazz could push for a higher seed, but since #1 is completely out of the picture I hope Quin commits to rest instead.

 

[fishonjazz]

No surprise but i have always felt great aboout this team. Once ingles got hurt i felt even better about it


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[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Rudy Gay could be huge for this team in the playoffs. He's like our Marcus Morris/Nic Batum, but it's a real question how much he has left in the tank at this point.

 

[Jingled]

To make it to the finals we would most likely have to get through Phoenix in the second round and then either GS or Memphis in the conference finals, without home court in either series. That is a very tall order. To have a chance we're going to need our starting lineup to stay healthy, the defensive intensity and energy that we've seen recently continue and maybe even pick up a little bit more, and something that all championship teams need, luck.

 

[str8line]

I still have the same gripe. Why were there starters out there in the 4th quarter past the 8 minute mark or so? The game was never in doubt. Give the other guys some time.

Because Quin is a damn idiot. Or out of his mind on coke. Can't figure out which.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I still have the same gripe. Why were there starters out there in the 4th quarter past the 8 minute mark or so? The game was never in doubt. Give the other guys some time.

Or maybe go half-way: rest the players that need it the most (Mike, maybe Bogey) and maybe leave some of the others out just to be sure nothing crazy happened.

Being quick to pull Mike specifically could be a good way to get him some rest when it looks like the game is in hand.

 

[The Thriller]

I still have the same gripe. Why were there starters out there in the 4th quarter past the 8 minute mark or so? The game was never in doubt. Give the other guys some time.

Could’ve rolled with butler/Forrest that entire 2nd half and still won easily by 20+

 

[JFFR]

They were losing the lead in the third quarter. Sloan said you only have to lose a lead one time to learn your lesson for life.