Florida Airport Shooting - 5 Dead 13 hurt

[LogGrad98]

Mental Health is such a red herring.

So what if someone is considered at risk by a mental health expert to commit a mass shooting? What then? The mentally unhealthy are not excluded from having guns, or getting guns. If the NRA is against government having a hand in who can have guns, why would they actively allow mental health professionals make the determination on who is allowed to have guns.

And even then, you can't force people into visiting a mental health professional. It would be funny if those against gun control would be for forced mental health visits. Those small government folks would seem pretty hypocritical in that situation.

Mental health excuse is very easy for anti-gun control advocates to point to since it's an issue that can never, ever be resolved, has some undertone of merit, thus can pointed to time and time again while doing nothing else and maintaining the status quo.

You answered a red herring with a red herring of your own. If the 2 it would be far more productive for society as a whole to work on providing care for the mentally ill. Available and affordable mental health care helps everyone. Gun control doesn't really help anyone.

Fwiw I am all for some method of keeping guns from mentally unstable individuals. But it becomes a chicken and the egg conversation without effective mental health care.

 

[Deleted member 848]

If you read the Quran, are you not part of that ideology? The Quaran has some pretty awful and scary passages in it.

There just seems to be this idea that we have to be tolerant of a book that teaches horrible things just because of the race of people who follow it, so we dont seem racist. I don't believe that has to be the case. There are plenty of people who have left Islamic religion, and are speaking out against it. But they are very few compared to the people who preach it to be the truth. Its very dangerous thing. There should be no tolerance of it. What if the KKK decided to call itself a religion. Should we then be tolerant of its views?

This story has everything to do with Islam. Its message is infecting the planet. This is a prime example of what happens when it reaches a mentally ill person. Everyone wants to keep guns out of the hands of nutjobs. Well, what about brainwashing violent messages? Thats just as dangerous. If not more. Guns dont kill people. Lunatics kill people. Bad ideas create lunatics.

When someone speaks out against Islam, that doesn't necessarily mean they are speaking out against a skin color or race. There is a big distinction between the two. If some white kid from the US joins Islam and commits a terrorist attack. Islam is still to blame.

This isn't just about Islam either. Its about all religions that teach, or have taught bad things. I'm not a Christian. I don't believe in or follow the bible. Its had a lot of its own horrible things come from it. But at least it made changes to itself. So there really isnt much to complain about it for the current times.

I also know that a lot of this has to do with the United States creating so much bad blood around the world. Which is why I vote against who I think is the warmonger. Trump may say alot of things that sound racist, but at least he talks about trying to reduce our involment militarily around the world. You can say that about Clinton. Maybe Trump turns out to be the same, but we dont know that yet. We knew what Hillary wanted to do. She said as much herself and so did her voting record.

Hack upset about his sister's relations with me again it seems

 

[Deleted member 848]

There are more fundamentalist in Islam than in Christianity.

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Edit: Siro already addressed anything I could ever say

 

[Deleted member 848]

I've said it before and I will say it again, we don't need more gun control, we need a society that supports help for the mentally ill, whatever that mental illness might be. We need to drop the stigma and make sure those who need it have access to help and can afford it. I started seeing a shrink here in CA and through my insurance I will get a whopping 4 visits, at 80% paid, after that the $150 per hour is mine to foot. This needs to change. Quality mental health care is very expensive and virtually inaccessible to those who really need it the most, and the stigma attached to it keeps a lot of people from making the effort. A good friend of mine faced a strange conversation at work when he posted on FB that he started seeing a therapist. They actually called him in and questioned him about it. This needs to stop and we need to get insurance companies to pay for it like any other medical issue. This is at the core of most of the mass shootings, and really any attempts like this to hurt others regardless of the means.

How are you gonna request a society that supports the mentally ill & not vote for a political party that demands more spending on health care & community services? Have you *ever* voted for a politician that has asked for more mental health spending?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Why?

You disagree?

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[Deleted member 848]

You disagree?

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No, I'm asking you why there are more.

It leads to the point Siro was making-- the level of fundamentalism across the Islamic empire has undergone *massive* shifts & this would be impossible if we assume religious practice to always be a direct manifestation of text

 

[Deleted member 848]

It's funny to see Siro (a man who had so many reservations with Islamic theology and faith that he left) to sit here defending the right of people to practice it.

Really speaks to how poisoned dialogue has become with regards to the Islamic faith

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

No, I'm asking you why there are more.

It leads to the point Siro was making-- the level of fundamentalism across the Islamic empire has undergone *massive* shifts & this would be impossible if we assume religious practice to always be a direct manifestation of text

Well for one, more people practice Islam, so I'd assume there is a bigger raw number. I'd also soon a bigger percentage because Islam seems to less impacted by modern pop culture to change.

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[Hotdog]

Hack upset about his sister's relations with me again it seems

I dont think its a coincidence that that is your go to.

The seizure of Infidel girls and their use as sex slaves is sanctioned in the Qur’an. According to Islamic law, Muslim men can take “captives of the right hand” (Qur’an 4:3, 4:24, 33:50). The Qur’an says: “O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war” (33:50). 4:3 and 4:24 extend this privilege to Muslim men in general. The Qur’an says that a man may have sex with his wives and with these slave girls: “The believers must (eventually) win through, those who humble themselves in their prayers; who avoid vain talk; who are active in deeds of charity; who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess, for (in their case) they are free from blame.” (Qur’an 23:1-6)

The rape of captive women is also sanctioned in Islamic tradition:

Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa’id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): 0 Abu Sa’id, did you hear Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-’azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi’l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing ‘azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of ***** to avoid conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah’s Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born. (Sahih Muslim 3371)

Rape isn't cool Dalaraper.

 

[DutchJazzer]

It seems to me like 'gun control' is like a dirty word, you can't say it without getting lots of backlash, arguments, etc.


I feel like more studies need to be done on this. Maybe do trial in a remote area and see if stricter gun control would lead to less gun related incidents? More background checks, required you to renewal it yearly like your car's warrant of fitness?


Maybe such a trial has even already been done?

france had gun control!

yet they have the deadliest mass shooting in modenr history!


extre,egun control sure helped them. and don't use the Chicago excuse, because neighbouring countries also had extreme gun control!!!

 

[bigb]

But why not both? Does it have to be one or the other?

Both what? More gun control and help the mentally ill? No, it doesn't have to be one or the other. But why would you punish the vast majority because of the few? Chicago is proving strict gun control is not automatically going to improve things.


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[DutchJazzer]

if gun control works can someone tell eme how the terrorist attack in fracne happened?

oor how about the guys Boarding a train in Amsterdam with ak47?

 

[LogGrad98]

if gun control works can someone tell eme how the terrorist attack in fracne happened?

oor how about the guys Boarding a train in Amsterdam with ak47?

Imo terrorism is something different entirely.

 

[Stoked]

Using the stats of a gun free town or city in America will always be heavily skewed. It is surrounded by areas that do not have the same gun laws and travel in unhindered. It's not the same as an independent country. Let's stop pretending it isn't heavily affected by being part of America.

Also the problems in Chicago go far beyond gun control. Yes it plays a part, for sure, but it is not a sole cause. Gangs, lack of educational opportunity, drugs, lack of economic opportunity, gun control, pay for play, corruption... like the TIF in Chicago often being used to fund the improvement of already wealthy areas of the city instead of the propping up poor areas like it was created to do. It all comes together to destroy a great American city.

Was going to address the Muslim angle but like [MENTION=848]dalamon[/MENTION] said, [MENTION=40]Siro[/MENTION] crushed it.

 

[The Midnight]

Both what? More gun control and help the mentally ill? No, it doesn't have to be one or the other. But why would you punish the vast majority because of the few? Chicago is proving strict gun control is not automatically going to improve things.


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1. Yesterday I showed you research that showed evidence of correlation between stricter gun laws and homicides/suicide rates. I mean if you're going to keep ignoring that then we're just going to keep going round and round in circles.


I've repasted the link below for you.

Link: https://reason.com/blog/2015/09/02/do-strict-firearm-laws-give-states-lower


2. According to the article/study below, mental illness only accounts for 4% of all firearms homicides. So even if we can help all the mentally ill it still represents a very small number. Don't forget there are over 33,636 deaths due to "Injury by firearms" in the US in 2013.

Link: https://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/25/health/gun-violence-mental-health-issue/

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States



Clearly more can be done so I don't really understand you wanting to limit the scope of potential solutions. I'm not saying stricter gun control is the only solution, I just see it as one of many potential solutions.

 

[MVP]

I personally don't view it like that (I don't think). To me it goes back to the thought of "if someone wants to do damage with a gun, they will, regardless of the laws/rules." Look at Chicago. It has some of the strictest (if not the most strict) gun laws in this country. Yet the number shooting deaths rises continually.


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Chicago is still in USA. It is so easy to take a short trip to Indiana or Milwaukee and come back with trunk full of guns.

 

[Stoked]

Chicago is still in USA. It is so easy to take a short trip to Indiana or Milwaukee and come back with trunk full of guns.

As such all the Chicago gun laws do is create a city of victims. 762 homicides and 4,331 shooting victims in Chicago in 2016.

 

[Boris]

1. Yesterday I showed you research that showed evidence of correlation between stricter gun laws and homicides/suicide rates. I mean if you're going to keep ignoring that then we're just going to keep going round and round in circles.


I've repasted the link below for you.

Link: https://reason.com/blog/2015/09/02/do-strict-firearm-laws-give-states-lower


2. According to the article/study below, mental illness only accounts for 4% of all firearms homicides. So even if we can help all the mentally ill it still represents a very small number. Don't forget there are over 33,636 deaths due to "Injury by firearms" in the US in 2013.

Link: https://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/25/health/gun-violence-mental-health-issue/

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States



Clearly more can be done so I don't really understand you wanting to limit the scope of potential solutions. I'm not saying stricter gun control is the only solution, I just see it as one of many potential solutions.

It saddens me when this country takes advantage of sad situations for there own benefit rather then showing support an comfort for the victims of these tragedies.

 

[Stoked]

It saddens me when this country takes advantage of sad situations for there own benefit rather then showing support an comfort for the victims of these tragedies.

I hate when New Zealand takes political advantage in America. Damn Kiwis!!

 

[Gameface]

Chicago used to have people embedded in the community who's purpose was to de-escalate conflicts between rival gang members or whoever else. It worked really well. They pulled the funding for it and violence has steadily increased since. There is one community that was able to self-fund the program and shooting deaths have continued to decline as they were before the funding was pulled for all the other communities.

This isn't just a "yes gun," "no gun" issue.