Florida to teach slavery was good for black people and self-defense by them was "acts of violence"
- Thread starter One Brow
- Start date
Red
Well-Known Member
Sure, won’t argue with that. And I’ll drop the subject here. It’s off topic, thread was not created to discuss higher education in Florida. And what one person sees as needed reforms, another sees as regrettable developments. And you and I won’t be able to see eye to eye, which is fine.
I’m likely a bit overly idealistic about higher education. Whether teacher or student, it’s like Plato’s Academy, learning for its own sake, learning as its own reward, learning for the sake of learning, no goal beyond that. Of course, most students are more practically oriented, and that too is as it should be.
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
Do you think teaching hate has a practical application? That is a serious question. Nearly every High School has a rival that coaches and administrators use to push engagement. Trophies are created for that one game and pep rallies are held to hype the student body. There is a happy, wholesome face on it but the whole thing is tribalism.
Was the United States a more unified entity when the USSR was seen as a rival? Was it a benefit to the United States for its people to hate the Soviets?
Is it beneficial for young women and men to be taught to view each other as rivals, as something approaching malevolent, by the college feminists and Andrew Tates of the world? There is power in it for sure and money to be made, but is our social fabric better for it?
Is it beneficial for young women and men to be taught the color of the skin they were born with binds them to a debt from events and actions involving people they never knew and had no connection to other than the skin color of a person involved was kinda, sorta, if you squint and are fine with broad brush strokes, like the color of the skin they were born with?
Maybe teaching hate has a practical application. The college feminists, Andrew Tates, Robin DiAngelos, and Ibram X Kendis think it does. I think the modern variant teaching gender and racial grievance is doing real damage to the social fabric and I'm against it.
The first is too large a group to define so narrowly. The second certainly leaned hard into the social structures that you support, revealing the man behind the curtain. You have already demonstrated that you know nothing about the teachings of the third and fourth.
It is unsurprising that you would be against dismantling a system that favored your parents, favors you, and will favor your children.
Red
Well-Known Member
From personal experience, certainly never taught hatred of human beings. Did not see it from any of my own teachers. Seeing much more hatred preached by political leaders at the moment, and I’ve been out of the classroom for quite awhile.
I’ve never seen much sense at all in making present groups of people feel somehow guilty for events that happened before they were born. Certainly nothing wrong with being as factually accurate as current understanding permits in describing historical events, personages, trends. Of course written history is interpretive, and as time passes, as generations change, so do interpretations of the past. We can know that enslaving blacks in colonial America was wrong. That does not require telling white students that they need to feel guilty about that. Why would they need to feel guilty?
I think we can look at history, and really, at least this is something I believe, the greatest benefit to studying history is to better understand the present. I believe at least a part of my background, namely my education in the history of Europe since 1789, was of tremendous help in seeing to it that I recognized what Trump represented the day he descended the escalator in Trump Tower in 2015. Decades after my education, and it still is proving useful in interpreting our present moment. And for me at least that’s the most useful aspect of understanding the past.
Anyway, if you’re sitting in on classes somewhere and discovering a lot of hatred being spread, well, that’s your experience. It wasn’t mine, years ago, when I was in the classroom.
But this “war on Woke” confuses the hell out of me. I do not think it helps at all, labeling as enemies of some really good people, culturally sensitive people, intelligent people. Is it just another dirty word to label people by? If I call MAGA a cult, amI doing the same thing? Cultist just another dirty word. Is everyone of liberal temperament “guilty” of being Woke? I’ve said, quite a few times in the past that there are psychological differences, maybe even brain wiring differences, between liberal temperaments and conservative temperaments. I believe simply understanding that can go some way toward each side being way less inclined to “demonize” the other. It’s simply differences in our natures.
Well, you know, we see what we see, and at least a few reasons why the gulf is so very hard to close at the moment.
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
Apparently it is about stealing the work of ethnically minority scholars and making yourself rich in the process.
Robin DiAngelo Plagiarized Minority Scholars, Complaint Alleges
Robin DiAngelo, the best-selling author of White Fragility, is a big believer in citing minorities.In an "accountability" statement on her...
www.goacta.org
Red
Well-Known Member
What a shame. Reminds me of Ray Bradbury’s book, Fahrenheit 451.
www.theguardian.com
From Fahrenheit 451: “We must burn all the books, Montag. All the books….”
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaLJ10v4xUA
‘Far from ideal’: DeSantis’s war on ‘woke’ colleges goes painfully awry
Republican Florida governor’s attack on universities suffers twin embarrassments of book dump and spending scandal
www.theguardian.com
New College of Florida's leaders want to tick off our community. They're doing a good job.
New College's recent move to throw books in a campus dumpster is the latest example of the conservative school's destructive "slash and burn" tactics.
www.heraldtribune.com
From Fahrenheit 451: “We must burn all the books, Montag. All the books….”
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaLJ10v4xUA
Last edited:
Red
Well-Known Member
LogGrad98
Well-Known Member
Contributor
20-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
Answered my own question on his blog... All thoughts prayers and positive things for the brow.
I have ALS
My family, workmates, and board-gaming associates all know I have ALS (more specifically bulbar-onset ALS), so it is about time I announced...
lifetheuniverseandonebrow.blogspot.com
Answered my own question on his blog... All thoughts prayers and positive things for the brow.
I have ALS
My family, workmates, and board-gaming associates all know I have ALS (more specifically bulbar-onset ALS), so it is about time I announced...
Wow, that's terrible. I feel for OB, reading that was rough.
It never is.
By extending it to the English channel....
Well in truth slavery as an institution is older than prostitution really. For as long as humans have existed slavery has existed in some form or another. In africa there was active slavery among different groups at the same time white people from europe were rounding up entire villages to be forced into slavery in america. It really isn't new. And no, white people did not invent it. The egyptians were enslaving people, even before that evidence of it among the sumerians. However, white people certainly made great strides in efficiency and enforcement of slavery, in keeping with other advancements of the time. We invented the cotton gin and a most efficient slave market and society. Just did everything better, right?
Slavery | Ancient Mesopotamian Warfare
sites.psu.edu
But using this as an excuse to teach children that, hey it wasn't that bad, is deplorable in the extreme and nearly unconscionable for more thinking human beings with any inkling of empathy.
I think there's a decent discussion that slavery is almost an essential part of economic development
LogGrad98
Well-Known Member
Contributor
20-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
In the formative years of a society probably indispensible.
that's what i tell the ten Cambodians i keep in my shed.
Red
Well-Known Member
“Since it went into effect last July, countless titles have been removed from elementary, middle and high school libraries, including American classics such as Brave New World by Aldous Huxley, For Whom the Bell Tolls by Ernest Hemingway and The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain.
Contemporary novels by bestselling authors such as Margaret Atwood, Judy Blume and Stephen King have also been removed, as well as The Diary of a Young Girl, Anne Frank’s gripping account of the Holocaust, according to the publishers”.
www.theguardian.com
www.independent.co.uk
I wonder if DeSantis ever read Fahrenheit 451? State wide book burning bonfires next?
This is culture war. Controlling what one’s citizens can read. It’s very wrong, as if they really needs to be said. This is one of MAGA’s responses to change in the 21st century: destroy the books! Control how people think!
Contemporary novels by bestselling authors such as Margaret Atwood, Judy Blume and Stephen King have also been removed, as well as The Diary of a Young Girl, Anne Frank’s gripping account of the Holocaust, according to the publishers”.
Major publishers sue Florida over ‘unconstitutional’ school book ban
Hundreds of titles from Judy Blume to Mark Twain purged from school libraries following rightwing challenges
www.theguardian.com
Stephen King gives three-word response after realising Florida banned 23 of his books
Twenty-three of King’s novels have been banned from schools in the US state thanks to a 2022 legislation signed by Ron DeSantis
www.independent.co.uk
I wonder if DeSantis ever read Fahrenheit 451? State wide book burning bonfires next?
This is culture war. Controlling what one’s citizens can read. It’s very wrong, as if they really needs to be said. This is one of MAGA’s responses to change in the 21st century: destroy the books! Control how people think!
Last edited:
fishonjazz
Well-Known Member
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
20-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
2025 Award Winner
Stephen King book was removed? I wonder which one. I have read them all. I can't think of any that are a big deal.“Since it went into effect last July, countless titles have been removed from elementary, middle and high school libraries, including American classics such as Brave New World by Aldous Huxley, For Whom the Bell Tolls by Ernest Hemingway and The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain.
Contemporary novels by bestselling authors such as Margaret Atwood, Judy Blume and Stephen King have also been removed, as well as The Diary of a Young Girl, Anne Frank’s gripping account of the Holocaust, according to the publishers”.
Major publishers sue Florida over ‘unconstitutional’ school book ban
Hundreds of titles from Judy Blume to Mark Twain purged from school libraries following rightwing challenges
Stephen King gives three-word response after realising Florida banned 23 of his books
Twenty-three of King’s novels have been banned from schools in the US state thanks to a 2022 legislation signed by Ron DeSantis
I wonder if DeSantis ever read Fahrenheit 451? State wide book burning bonfires next?
This is culture war. Controlling what one’s citizens can read. It’s very wrong, as if they really needs to be said. This is one of MAGA’s responses to change in the 21st century: destroy the books! Control how people think!
Just looked at the second link. It lists some of the 23(!) King books banned.
It's insanity.
Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
The only thing wrong is your mischaracterization of the situation. No books are being banned. What citizens can read isn't being controlled.
Perhaps are I am reading you wrong. Do you know that you are being dishonest or do you actually believe Florida is forbidding citizens from reading certain books?
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
I'm guessing it is a number of them. For example, in IT, the 11-12 year old kids in the book all have to have sex with each other to defeat the monster.
The Florida Department of Education is putting the decision to expose or not expose their younger kids to sexually explicit content on the parents. School-aged kids are welcome to read IT with kiddie sex, and bring kiddie sex IT to school, but their parents will be the ones furnishing the book.
fishonjazz
Well-Known Member
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
20-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
2025 Award Winner
If ‘a parent or a resident of the county’ objects to a book, the book must be removed within five days and remain unavailable until the objection is resolved. There is no requirement to review a book within a reasonable time frame—or even to return it if it has been found not to violate the statute. If a book is returned to the library, an objector may request a review by a state-appointed special magistrate at the expense of the school district.”
So basically any parent can go to any school library and pick literally any book (Im offended by the word Pooh so Winnie the Pooh needs to be removed. Sounds too much like poop. I don't want my kid seeing the horrible violence of Bambi's mom being killed so Bambi needs to be removed) and it has to be removed. Just because I said so.
Incredibly stupid.
Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk
So basically any parent can go to any school library and pick literally any book (Im offended by the word Pooh so Winnie the Pooh needs to be removed. Sounds too much like poop. I don't want my kid seeing the horrible violence of Bambi's mom being killed so Bambi needs to be removed) and it has to be removed. Just because I said so.
Incredibly stupid.
Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk