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Following potential 2012 draftees

PKM said:
So I posted my gut feel. Instead, I will post facts. I think most agree the two most talented teams in the NCAA this year was UNC and UK. In other words, one does not have any real advantage because of the players they were playing with .. Also, they played very similar minutes (2 minutes separate) so I adjusted numbers to 30 minutes.

Facts;
Height = same
Strength = it's Miller (but I have no proof of that)
Perimeter shooting = Miller by 2% (I said too close to call in my original post)
Handles = Not exactly sure how to quantify, but they both averaged exactly 2 to's per game. (My eyeball test says it's Miller, but close)
Passing = I said Miller .. Miller averaged 2 apg to Barnes' 1 apg
Rebounding = I got this one wrong (it's actually 5.3rpg for Barnes vs. 3.0 for Miller) = My bad
Post play = Miller and there's no credible debate
Intangibles = subjective .. but I feel strongly it's Miller
Defense = Miller is similar to MKG in that he defended all 5 positions at different points this year .. I don't see Barnes as that versatile.

FG% = Miller by 3.4%
FT% = Miller by 7.4%

If one were to line up the stats, side-by-side, it would be difficult to determine which was the top 8 pick vs. the 2nd rounder. That was actually my point.
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Not trying to be a smart ***, this is an honest question. Hypothetically if the Jazz took Miller at 8, would you say that is a huge huge stretch? Or would you say that was a great pick, and they were way ahead of the curve on him? Most fans here seem to think that if Barnes drops to 8 he should be the pick, if he should be a great pickup at 8 than should the Jazz take Miller at 8 and shock everyone?
 
kennykyle said:
Not trying to be a smart ***, this is an honest question. Hypothetically if the Jazz took Miller at 8, would you say that is a huge huge stretch? Or would you say that was a great pick, and they were way ahead of the curve on him? Most fans here seem to think that if Barnes drops to 8 he should be the pick, if he should be a great pickup at 8 than should the Jazz take Miller at 8 and shock everyone?
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I absolutely would not take Miller top20. As I said in my OP on this subject, he doesn't have a scorer's mentality. He drove UK fans crazy for 4 years, wanting him to just take over games .. but he would only do so when the coach would FORCE him to. I'd be afraid the NBA could eat him up because there are plenty of others that will be glad to take his minutes and the coaches may not want to have to push him as much. Barnes will be better because he believes he's supposed to be the #1 scoring option. I was not making a case, at all, for Miller over Barnes, I was simply commenting on what a potential steal he could be in the 30's.
 
You would not take Miller at #8. You grab someone else projected around 8 (perhaps Marshall) and grab Miller a little before where he's currently projected. Max value.

The idea is to take someone talented with the lottery pick AND grab Miller, who could be Barnes-lite, with a cheaper late first pick.

The reason I keep saying late first is because I expect Miller to be grabbed early second, so I wanna grab him early.
 
PKM said:
So I posted my gut feel. Instead, I will post facts. I think most agree the two most talented teams in the NCAA this year was UNC and UK. In other words, one does not have any real advantage because of the players they were playing with .. Also, they played very similar minutes (2 minutes separate) so I adjusted numbers to 30 minutes.

Facts;
Height = same
Strength = it's Miller (but I have no proof of that)
Perimeter shooting = Miller by 2% (I said too close to call in my original post)
Handles = Not exactly sure how to quantify, but they both averaged exactly 2 to's per game. (My eyeball test says it's Miller, but close)
Passing = I said Miller .. Miller averaged 2 apg to Barnes' 1 apg
Rebounding = I got this one wrong (it's actually 5.3rpg for Barnes vs. 3.0 for Miller) = My bad
Post play = Miller and there's no credible debate
Intangibles = subjective .. but I feel strongly it's Miller
Defense = Miller is similar to MKG in that he defended all 5 positions at different points this year .. I don't see Barnes as that versatile.

FG% = Miller by 3.4%
FT% = Miller by 7.4%

If one were to line up the stats, side-by-side, it would be difficult to determine which was the top 8 pick vs. the 2nd rounder. That was actually my point.
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Roles. It's safe to say Barnes had a lot more attention from defenses and was asked to do much more than Miller was.
 
Of course Miller (the one from UK) is going to have better shooting percentages. He was like....the 4th or 5th option on that team at best, Barnes was #1 on UNC. I like Miller PKM, but Barnes is a much better player. You can't just say that he's better at everything but doesn't have the numbers because he's not "assertive" enough. I don't want a guy that isn't assertive. ****, if he hasn't learned how to do that in 4 years of college, I don't think he's going to learn now. As much as I like Miller, I strongly question wanting a guy that appears to have all of the tools to be great but doesn't want to put them into practice. If it was anybody else but a UK player, you would call them a bust.
 
Hantlers said:
Cy never said in his post that he liked Barnes. You don't have to like a player to say he's better than somebody else.
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I thought I remembered him saying something many months ago about how much he didn't like Barnes. Back when everyone was high on him.
 
BENTLEY said:
Hypothetical since the Jazz don't have a late first but which would you rather:

Barnes at 8
or
Miller at 29
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That is a dumb question since we don't have the 29th pick.

And as far as Barnes goes, I feel like people underrate him because he was so overrated to begin his career.
 
BENTLEY said:
I thought I remembered him saying something many months ago about how much he didn't like Barnes. Back when everyone was high on him.
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But he still never said that he liked him. He just voiced his opinion on why it doesn't matter that Miller has better shooting stats than Barnes.
 
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