Following potential 2013 draftees
- Thread starter Dr. Jones
- Start date
I'm okay with 14 and 21.. totally. I would love to have Burke or CJ.. but I'm not sure I want CJ more than who we could get at 14 and 21... and Burke is outta the question.
Before the NCAA tournament, we were debating Burke and McCollum at #14. A lot has happened since then.
I did. He said, "I don't know **** and don't give a **** bout that dude."
Didn't feel it was newsworthy.
can't disagree.
Unless it's a PnR heavy offense, ala GSW and Spurs for example... He should be good enough to come off screen and find open man.
Plus I think he's plenty smart to learn an offense if required..
GermanStandard
New Member
Hello guys,
this is my first post here. Since im from Germany and have seen a lot of Dennis Schröder this and last season in the arena i may describe what i saw live (since a lot of you guys want him with the Jazz).
He is a huge talent but he is raw as hell.
He had big problems against though physical defense. He had problems against Guards from US-Colleges that didnt even came close to playing in the NBA.
But he clearly has a ton of upsides. He is quick as hell (maybe the quickest one ive seen life since David Holston lol).
He has a huge wingspan and is a great defender. His shot is not great but he improved it dramatically over the last 2 seasons. He is athletic and has a nice courtvision. He is able to play impossible passes and create a lot of chances for his teammates when driving into the lane and kicking out for example.
He sometimes gets to wild and tries to do idiotic stuff against 3 defenders or plays stupid passes (lot of turnovers). But u have to remember he is 19 and played his first season ever playing significant minutes in the first leauge.
Id say Pick 14 is too much for him. I would take him any day of the week with 21 though.
He is a nice and really friendly guy with a good attitude. I dont know why some scouts expect problems with his character.
He definitely needs some time to make an impact in the NBA but he will im sure about that.
this is my first post here. Since im from Germany and have seen a lot of Dennis Schröder this and last season in the arena i may describe what i saw live (since a lot of you guys want him with the Jazz).
He is a huge talent but he is raw as hell.
He had big problems against though physical defense. He had problems against Guards from US-Colleges that didnt even came close to playing in the NBA.
But he clearly has a ton of upsides. He is quick as hell (maybe the quickest one ive seen life since David Holston lol).
He has a huge wingspan and is a great defender. His shot is not great but he improved it dramatically over the last 2 seasons. He is athletic and has a nice courtvision. He is able to play impossible passes and create a lot of chances for his teammates when driving into the lane and kicking out for example.
He sometimes gets to wild and tries to do idiotic stuff against 3 defenders or plays stupid passes (lot of turnovers). But u have to remember he is 19 and played his first season ever playing significant minutes in the first leauge.
Id say Pick 14 is too much for him. I would take him any day of the week with 21 though.
He is a nice and really friendly guy with a good attitude. I dont know why some scouts expect problems with his character.
He definitely needs some time to make an impact in the NBA but he will im sure about that.
What I look for when trying to find that diamond in the rough is mental and physical toughness. Guys like Wes Matthews, Bruce Bowen, Carroll etc. Of course this is subjective, but I watch how they react on the court to tough situations, their body language(hanging their head/visible frustration) and how they carry themselves in interviews. Confidence is great but if there is no strength behind it then usually the player struggles or doesn't make it in the league. Many guys can talk but I try to watch if the guy doesn't back down and continues to work hard.
Some guys have all the talent in the world but are mentally weak or knuckleheads. Usually they are easy to spot but eventually they are exposed (Snyder, CJ Miles, Humphries etc.).
As far as the PG debate, I am not enamored with any one guy. THey all have question marks and my opinion changes daily but for now I am leaning towards either CJ or MCW. I have cooled on Schroeder but he is probably my third guy. The chances of the Jazz getting Burke is slim but I haven't been as high on him as many people are. I am concerned about his lack of size and quickness. The Jazz would have to take him if he falls but I don't think he is a sure fire superstar/all-star like several people think.
Some guys have all the talent in the world but are mentally weak or knuckleheads. Usually they are easy to spot but eventually they are exposed (Snyder, CJ Miles, Humphries etc.).
As far as the PG debate, I am not enamored with any one guy. THey all have question marks and my opinion changes daily but for now I am leaning towards either CJ or MCW. I have cooled on Schroeder but he is probably my third guy. The chances of the Jazz getting Burke is slim but I haven't been as high on him as many people are. I am concerned about his lack of size and quickness. The Jazz would have to take him if he falls but I don't think he is a sure fire superstar/all-star like several people think.
I'm being stupid, staying up late and picking up chatter on the draft through various online sources. There seems to be a very real chance that Trey Burke slips to #9 or 10.
The gist here is that the Cavs at one like Noel, Porter and Len (to some degree).
Orlando likes McLemore more than Burke, which makes sense from a BPA perspective. Oladipo could also be in play. Either way, there's less a chance now that Burke ends up in Orlando.
Washington would take Porter or Noel, whichever is left on the board, with some possibility of taking Bennett.
The Bobcats, Suns and Pelicans will take BPA, and it's not clear that Burke quite qualifies. Burke is a bit similar to Kemba Walker in Charlotte, and hence the Bobcats are more likely to go with Len, Oladipo or Bennett. The Suns would be thrilled with Oladipo if he's there, and could go with Carter-Williams, Len or Bennett as well. Burke may enter the mix for NOLA, but he'd have to beat out Bennett or Len.
Overall, the top 6 players taken *should* be Noel, McLemore, Porter, Oladipo, Bennett and Len.
Sacramento at #7 likes Carter-Williams ahead of Burke apparently, but they also like Shabazz. They have been making an effort to move their PG to Isaiah Thomas, which was a rumor involving Cleveland's #29 pick. If their starting PG job opens up, look for them to take MCW (if available), or Burke or CJ, otherwise.
Detroit also apparently like Carter-Williams and Shabazz, so whichever one doesn't go to Sacramento is likely to go to Detroit. Detroit is unlikely to take McCollum, since neither he nor Knight is a true PG, and neither one is suited to matchup defensively with bigger guards. Detroit needs perimeter scoring and would take Shabazz or likely take MCW and move Knight off the ball.
That takes us to Minnesota's pick at #9.... Burke may still be on the board--it's at least 50-50 (with one other player aforementioned possibly still being available) depending on what NOLA and Sacto do. McCollum, Zeller and Adams should be there too. Minnesota apparently wants a shooting guard with size, which points to Caldwell-Pope if they stay in the draft. However, Minny is under pressure to make the playoffs and might consider trading out of the draft. Either way, the #9 pick might be available for trade, and both Trey Burke and CJ McCollum are likely to be available.
Portland at #10 might also be willing to trade if they're not sold on Zeller, Adams or Olynyk. But they'd also consider a wing shooter like KCP. Portland, of course, already has ROY Damian Lillard.
Going further, Philadelphia at #11 needs a big to replace Bynum and play next to Thadeus Young.
Oklahoma City needs a replacement for Kendrick Perkins and possibly a replacement for Kevin Martin more than they need a PG.
Dallas is looking to be a player in free agency, and if they don't get Howard or Paul, they're still going to go after others like Iguodala, so they're still looking to move payroll.
Anyway, both McCollum or Burke might be in reach to the Jazz or another team that trades for the #9 or #10 pick. It's still likely that Dallas will move their pick at #13, so whoever takes it would be a threat to take a player we want.
That said, we could have a situation where 4 PGs--Burke, McCollum, Larkin and Schroeder are piling up in the late lottery and teens simply because there aren't many teams that need a PG that badly. One of those 4 players might even slip all the way to 21.
The gist here is that the Cavs at one like Noel, Porter and Len (to some degree).
Orlando likes McLemore more than Burke, which makes sense from a BPA perspective. Oladipo could also be in play. Either way, there's less a chance now that Burke ends up in Orlando.
Washington would take Porter or Noel, whichever is left on the board, with some possibility of taking Bennett.
The Bobcats, Suns and Pelicans will take BPA, and it's not clear that Burke quite qualifies. Burke is a bit similar to Kemba Walker in Charlotte, and hence the Bobcats are more likely to go with Len, Oladipo or Bennett. The Suns would be thrilled with Oladipo if he's there, and could go with Carter-Williams, Len or Bennett as well. Burke may enter the mix for NOLA, but he'd have to beat out Bennett or Len.
Overall, the top 6 players taken *should* be Noel, McLemore, Porter, Oladipo, Bennett and Len.
Sacramento at #7 likes Carter-Williams ahead of Burke apparently, but they also like Shabazz. They have been making an effort to move their PG to Isaiah Thomas, which was a rumor involving Cleveland's #29 pick. If their starting PG job opens up, look for them to take MCW (if available), or Burke or CJ, otherwise.
Detroit also apparently like Carter-Williams and Shabazz, so whichever one doesn't go to Sacramento is likely to go to Detroit. Detroit is unlikely to take McCollum, since neither he nor Knight is a true PG, and neither one is suited to matchup defensively with bigger guards. Detroit needs perimeter scoring and would take Shabazz or likely take MCW and move Knight off the ball.
That takes us to Minnesota's pick at #9.... Burke may still be on the board--it's at least 50-50 (with one other player aforementioned possibly still being available) depending on what NOLA and Sacto do. McCollum, Zeller and Adams should be there too. Minnesota apparently wants a shooting guard with size, which points to Caldwell-Pope if they stay in the draft. However, Minny is under pressure to make the playoffs and might consider trading out of the draft. Either way, the #9 pick might be available for trade, and both Trey Burke and CJ McCollum are likely to be available.
Portland at #10 might also be willing to trade if they're not sold on Zeller, Adams or Olynyk. But they'd also consider a wing shooter like KCP. Portland, of course, already has ROY Damian Lillard.
Going further, Philadelphia at #11 needs a big to replace Bynum and play next to Thadeus Young.
Oklahoma City needs a replacement for Kendrick Perkins and possibly a replacement for Kevin Martin more than they need a PG.
Dallas is looking to be a player in free agency, and if they don't get Howard or Paul, they're still going to go after others like Iguodala, so they're still looking to move payroll.
Anyway, both McCollum or Burke might be in reach to the Jazz or another team that trades for the #9 or #10 pick. It's still likely that Dallas will move their pick at #13, so whoever takes it would be a threat to take a player we want.
That said, we could have a situation where 4 PGs--Burke, McCollum, Larkin and Schroeder are piling up in the late lottery and teens simply because there aren't many teams that need a PG that badly. One of those 4 players might even slip all the way to 21.
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orangello
Well-Known Member
Yes really.
Re Burke Free Fall
I was just thinking this very same thing when I saw Trey Burke one against none workout for the Kings. To me it was reminiscent of the one Brandon Knight did for the Kings in '11. He seemed slow and small, and I came away unimpressed after watching both workouts.
I think it's a bad move that Burke is working out by himself. He needed to separate himself from McCollum and MCW and working out by yourself is never going to get it done.
Burke rose because of the NCAA tournament. Now that the tournament is a distance memory, it's not unimaginable to think that he's heading for a free-fall.
Boy this draft is unpredictable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px_HlmwnPe8
I was just thinking this very same thing when I saw Trey Burke one against none workout for the Kings. To me it was reminiscent of the one Brandon Knight did for the Kings in '11. He seemed slow and small, and I came away unimpressed after watching both workouts.
I think it's a bad move that Burke is working out by himself. He needed to separate himself from McCollum and MCW and working out by yourself is never going to get it done.
Burke rose because of the NCAA tournament. Now that the tournament is a distance memory, it's not unimaginable to think that he's heading for a free-fall.
Boy this draft is unpredictable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px_HlmwnPe8
I think what sets him apart is a vastly underrated understanding of the game. Dude's smart.
Another nice write up by Catchall.