Following potential 2014 draftees

[Game6Conley]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoSdiKB3wIw

Noah's had a substantial change in his body in the past year compared to these other prospects (pics below), he could still be growing aswell hes 22 days older than Aaron Gordon with size 17 shoes and massive hands

from 2011 to 2013 Vonleh has grown 2" and added about 50lbs, he measured 6'9.75 in shoes last year, theres a chance he could keep adding size and end up massive. he went from Gordon Hayward size to Al Horford with a 4" bigger reach, in just a few years.

 

[cowhide]

Can you blame us? We've been put through this awful, awful season, some games I just can't bear to watch anymore.



Serious questions - how many teams in the NBA today are playing stretch 4's on a regular basis? Looking at the top teams: Pacers - West, Spurs - Duncan, Heat - Bosh, OKC - Ibaka, Clippers - Blake, POR - Aldridge, etc, etc, etc. Karl Malone said in the broadcast the other day "What the ****'s a stretch 4?".

I for one am not gonna draft Aaron Gordon with the 6th pick to sit on the bench waiting for the right lineup to come along so that he can finally get some time against stretch 4's.


The caveat is if Gordon can bulk up ala Blake and still retain his explosiveness - something Evans hasn't been able to do in his 4 years in the NBA.

I've been a Jazz fan since they moved to SLC, I even liked the Jazz when they were in New Orleans because I loved Pistol Pete and Truck Robinson (very underrated player). I don't know when you became a fan but you sound like a very spoiled one. I mean the Jazz are sorry for "putting you through such a terrible season".

What were you expecting, they are rebuilding? Many Jazz fans are spoiled because of all the years the Jazz have made the playoffs. Why don't you try to whine on some other team's board about how rough its been...Toronto, Cleveland, Clippers, GS, Knick, Magic, Sixers etc. I am sure they will have compassion for you. I think you should just stop watching and jump back on the bandwagon like Jazz fans do when the Jazz are "winners" again.

How do you know that Gordon can't start at SF or PF in the NBA? You are assuming he will be a bench player. No? Of course the Jazz want to get a starter, but they are not intentionally going to draft a bust. You pick the BPA and if Gordon is that player then it is the coaches and players job to adjust. There are no guarantees that any player will become the superstar all Jazz fans dream about. I am just warning you now so you don't get overwhelmed with disappointment. No man up, things will get better.

 

[Fishsticks]

Frankly, he has absolutely no idea what Gordon can or can not do. Probably has never seen him play outside of highlights.

 

[Fishsticks]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoSdiKB3wIw

Noah's had a substantial change in his body in the past year compared to these other prospects (pics below), he could still be growing aswell hes 22 days older than Aaron Gordon with size 17 shoes and massive hands

from 2011 to 2013 Vonleh has grown 2" and added about 50lbs, he measured 6'9.75 in shoes last year, theres a chance he could keep adding size and end up massive. he went from Gordon Hayward size to Al Horford with a 4" bigger reach, in just a few years.

Good point. He looks so much larger than just a year ago. He is really intriguing.

 

[cowhide]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoSdiKB3wIw

Noah's had a substantial change in his body in the past year compared to these other prospects (pics below), he could still be growing aswell hes 22 days older than Aaron Gordon with size 17 shoes and massive hands

from 2011 to 2013 Vonleh has grown 2" and added about 50lbs, he measured 6'9.75 in shoes last year, theres a chance he could keep adding size and end up massive. he went from Gordon Hayward size to Al Horford with a 4" bigger reach, in just a few years.

I wasn't that impressed with Noah initially but he has grown on me. It would feel like a consolation prize if the Jazz ended up drafting him but I would be OK with it. I think he is a little bit better prospect than Gordon because he shoots better. If he grows anymore than Noah would be a steal. I still think the Jazz need more backcourt help but if he is the BPA when the Jazz pick I will be happy about it.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I'm all for the two-year rule as a college fan. Would be interesting to see if it created more of a upper-tier talent dispersal among schools.

I used to make regular talent dispersals when I was in my college years... all for others living their dream too.

 

[BTP]

Didn't mean going overseas, just not playing competitively for a year and practicing by w/ trainers, like Exum is doing.

You realize that not every prospect has cash or is granted a credit to workout with a personal trainer for 12 months.

It's something to consider especially if Adam Silver is serious about wanting to change to a two-year rule, which he apparently does (see todays Boston Globe comments).

I think it's bad for the NBA team if kids decide to skip college and head overseas.. there's a reality that exists that college fans are following their teams players into the NBA. THAT would happen even more so if the two year rule were to be applied.. so long as most kids don't go overseas.

Need to allow for some serious provisions for kids staying in college for two years. Some of which are addressed by Silver in the Globe article.

I believe the guys should go where they feel they can develop the most. If the NCAA model doesn't offer them something they feel is best for their development they should look elsewhere. If that's Europe, China or the NBDL is a different question.

But the NCAA system has significant flaws like no injury/health insurance. Testing the water rules that come close to extortion is among them and you don't get a pension fund thing or something from the money the university earns via your charity play.

Most top athletes never finish their degree and this leaves room to argue if free housing, meals and a scholarship that isn't worth anything is enough to compensate for the money the schools make by showcasing their talents. After all a school is a place where you're being trained for a job and it's in the interest of almost everybody that these institutions exist. So what's the interest of the school to rip off their students like they do and prevent them from making the best decisions for their life? Earning as much cash as possible like a Dow Jones company...

Right now the awful earning possibilities in the NBDL really leave them no real possibility than going to school as going to Europe means that you have to be able to contribute right away or else you're spending your time practicing with the assistant coach.

So for the D-League to have salary slots in 6 figures would be very attractive alternatives for kids that are hyped out of high school and feel they want to pass on the college experience where they could mature as persons.

That would also push the NCAA to stop their monopoly extortion scheme and compete for talents by adapting rules.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

You realize that not every prospect has cash or is granted a credit to workout with a personal trainer for 12 months.



I believe the guys should go where they feel they can develop the most. If the NCAA model doesn't offer them something they feel is best for their development they should look elsewhere. If that's Europe, China or the NBDL is a different question.

But the NCAA system has significant flaws like no injury/health insurance. Testing the water rules that come close to extortion is among them and you don't get a pension fund thing or something from the money the university earns via your charity play.

Most top athletes never finish their degree and this leaves room to argue if free housing, meals and a scholarship that isn't worth anything is enough to compensate for the money the schools make by showcasing their talents. After all a school is a place where you're being trained for a job and it's in the interest of almost everybody that these institutions exist. So what's the interest of the school to rip off their students like they do and prevent them from making the best decisions for their life? Earning as much cash as possible like a Dow Jones company...

Right now the awful earning possibilities in the NBDL really leave them no real possibility than going to school as going to Europe means that you have to be able to contribute right away or else you're spending your time practicing with the assistant coach.

So for the D-League to have salary slots in 6 figures would be very attractive alternatives for kids that are hyped out of high school and feel they want to pass on the college experience where they could mature as persons.

That would also push the NCAA to stop their monopoly extortion scheme and compete for talents by adapting rules.

Yeah, because if you are a trainer you are going to turn down a top 10 NBA prospect. And I'm sure shoe companies would hate to make an invest in a top 10 player looking for help hiring a trainer.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

And my question isn't about the best way to develop your talents, it's about taking advantage of people natural curiosity of the unknown.

By not playing in college or professional basketball Exum is just using the hype train of past performances to fuel his draft spot as other players play below expectations (UK squad). There is no way he is becoming a better player by doing this than he would be by playing in a competitive league. He is just protecting his draft stock, and maybe even helping it if writers/scouts/gms get so down on others they force themselves to find something to fall in love with.

 

[cowhide]

i'm not denying his potential and talent. from tapes i've seen i can see why people draw tmac comparison. i also see little bit of young penny. i brought up glenn robinson III because highlight reel only tell half the story especially when it's against inferior talent pool. grob barks big in highlights, but he plays like a lil pup when you put the game tape on. dude lacks aggression. too passive. why? he lacks alpha dog mentality. and he plays in a team where 2 other players are better than him mentally. in noway shape or form stauskas or levert are more talented than grob III. but they play with heart and aggression. what happens if exum played for Kansas? could he be a lead dog in that stacked team? what about duke? what would he avg? from what i've seen, exum looks like a confident player. he does look like he can be a leader, alpha dog. but still, i didn't experience him for full season like other top picks. i could argue maybe grob III can be a big dog in a small pond too. i doubt it, but it can happen because he would know he is clearly superior than anybody on the court.

and that's the only reason why i can't pick him at top 5. it's too much of a gamble for me. i've only seen 1 full game of him. someone posted it on here. my verdict - inconclusive. but i think he is a worth a gamble at #7-8 if he puts up good numbers in predraft. there is a reason why he is a big deal. had he come out last year, he would've been easily top 5. right now, i would put him in the 2nd tier #6-#9 range.

I just don't think NCAA or international ball always give us what a player can be in the NBA. Dwayne Wade was a very good NCAA player but no one thought he would be this good. Even MJ was better than people imagine. Most recently Tim Hardaway Jr. is a big surprise after being one of the pieces at Michigan and not the man. I agree that Robinson has been disappointing but still there is uncertainty how he will play in the NBA just like Exum. You say you wouldn't take Exum at #5 even if he is the best player on the board. The draft is a gamble.

Wiggins
Parker
Embiid
Randle/Smart -which ever you think is the fourth pick.

I have no problem with taking Exum at 5 over Gordon, Vonlieh, McDermott because each of these players are just as uncertain. they all have glaring weakness. For me the only three players that are as close to a sure thing as you can expect are Wiggins, Parker and Embiid (if he is healthy). Randle and Smart have several issues that could make them average or busts. Unless the Jazz get the first pick they have to wait and see who is available so not everything is in their control.

For me Wiggins is my guy if he is on the board. I would really have to think between Parker and Embiid. That would be tougher for me. If the Jazz pick third then it is an easier choice. After the third pick you just hope your guy falls to you.

 

[BTP]

And my question isn't about the best way to develop your talents, it's about taking advantage of people natural curiosity of the unknown.

By not playing in college or professional basketball Exum is just using the hype train of past performances to fuel his draft spot as other players play below expectations (UK squad). There is no way he is becoming a better player by doing this than he would be by playing in a competitive league. He is just protecting his draft stock, and maybe even helping it if writers/scouts/gms get so down on others they force themselves to find something to fall in love with.

How is he protecting his draft stock if there was no way to play college this year? He graduated in November and the only thing he could have done is looking for a team in Europe midway through or the D-League or practicing with a NCAA team which would have prevented him from entering the draft this summer. What was he supposed to do?
Practicing parts of your body and game can be very efficient. You see it every fall when the NBA starts and you spot players who didn't work out that summer!

 

[Dr. Jones]

You realize that not every prospect has cash or is granted a credit to workout with a personal trainer for 12 months.



I believe the guys should go where they feel they can develop the most. If the NCAA model doesn't offer them something they feel is best for their development they should look elsewhere. If that's Europe, China or the NBDL is a different question.

But the NCAA system has significant flaws like no injury/health insurance. Testing the water rules that come close to extortion is among them and you don't get a pension fund thing or something from the money the university earns via your charity play.

Most top athletes never finish their degree and this leaves room to argue if free housing, meals and a scholarship that isn't worth anything is enough to compensate for the money the schools make by showcasing their talents. After all a school is a place where you're being trained for a job and it's in the interest of almost everybody that these institutions exist. So what's the interest of the school to rip off their students like they do and prevent them from making the best decisions for their life? Earning as much cash as possible like a Dow Jones company...

Right now the awful earning possibilities in the NBDL really leave them no real possibility than going to school as going to Europe means that you have to be able to contribute right away or else you're spending your time practicing with the assistant coach.

So for the D-League to have salary slots in 6 figures would be very attractive alternatives for kids that are hyped out of high school and feel they want to pass on the college experience where they could mature as persons.

That would also push the NCAA to stop their monopoly extortion scheme and compete for talents by adapting rules.

I have covered a lot of that in the past. Yes, the NCAA has substantial flaws and they need to be fixed if a two-year rule were to be implemented. I lack the desire to outline all the issues, but none of them are insurmountable.

 

[cowhide]

There might be a very good chance that Exum won't even be on the board when the 5th pick is selected.

 

[franklin]

Since I was in love with Derrick Williams, I'm pretty sure this statement is false.

Derrick Williams was the reason I didn't change my name sooner, was hoping I could keep my OG name.

What is it with your love of tweeners? Is this your version of rooting for the underdog?

 

[fishonjazz]

How is he protecting his draft stock if there was no way to play college this year? He graduated in November

Interesting.

Cy, what do you think about that?

 

[franklin]

I just don't think NCAA or international ball always give us what a player can be in the NBA. Dwayne Wade was a very good NCAA player but no one thought he would be this good. Even MJ was better than people imagine. Most recently Tim Hardaway Jr. is a big surprise after being one of the pieces at Michigan and not the man. I agree that Robinson has been disappointing but still there is uncertainty how he will play in the NBA just like Exum. You say you wouldn't take Exum at #5 even if he is the best player on the board. The draft is a gamble.

Wiggins
Parker
Embiid
Randle/Smart -which ever you think is the fourth pick.

I have no problem with taking Exum at 5 over Gordon, Vonlieh, McDermott because each of these players are just as uncertain. they all have glaring weakness. For me the only three players that are as close to a sure thing as you can expect are Wiggins, Parker and Embiid (if he is healthy). Randle and Smart have several issues that could make them average or busts. Unless the Jazz get the first pick they have to wait and see who is available so not everything is in their control.

For me Wiggins is my guy if he is on the board. I would really have to think between Parker and Embiid. That would be tougher for me. If the Jazz pick third then it is an easier choice. After the third pick you just hope your guy falls to you.

Maybe after the combine and pre-draft workouts against real competition.

 

[Dr. Jones]

There might be a very good chance that Exum won't even be on the board when the 5th pick is selected.

Very good chance he's not.
In fact, I would bet he goes top 4.

 

[Dr. Jones]

^lol.. just saw what I did there.

 

[BTP]

I have covered a lot of that in the past. Yes, the NCAA has substantial flaws and they need to be fixed if a two-year rule were to be implemented. I lack the desire to outline all the issues, but none of them are insurmountable.

Yes of course they are totally fixable. But it depends on the willingness. And the NCAA is unwilling to talk unless they can gain money out of it. That's why they might be listening on two and through rules because it will increase TV ratings and making college ball more competitive.
But I feel they are unwilling to grant their students anything unless their revenue stream is in danger. Which is why I hope some alternatives will emerge stronger with a two and through rule like well connected agents placing more mature guys for two years into a European program they trust to help them increase their skill level or the NBDL being a solid alternative. PJ Hairston for instance could help the NBDL's reputation if he learned from his "college experience" and also performs in the NBA.

 

[Stifle Tower]

I wasn't that impressed with Noah initially but he has grown on me. It would feel like a consolation prize if the Jazz ended up drafting him but I would be OK with it. I think he is a little bit better prospect than Gordon because he shoots better. If he grows anymore than Noah would be a steal. I still think the Jazz need more backcourt help but if he is the BPA when the Jazz pick I will be happy about it.

Outside of the top-4, I'm probably highest on Vonleh. Yes, I do agree the Jazz need a SF, but they also need another PF, preferably one who can shoot. There's always Marvin, but he's shown a LOT of inconsistency. I'd rather the Jazz find someone cheaper with more upside. Besides, wings are plentiful. Jazz have some cap room and should be able to sign or trade for one.