Easy Answer: Draft Gordon.
Following potential 2014 draftees
- Thread starter Dr. Jones
- Start date
Easy Answer: Draft Gordon.
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
Considering where we are sin the standings, I really like the NBADraft.net's latest mock for us.
https://www.nbadraft.net/2014mock_draft
It has us taking:
Dante Exum @ #7
Vailje Micic @ #23
&
CJ Fair @ #37
.
I really like Exum, and if he's there at 7, it's a no-brainer. Could play 1 or 2. Will allow for a lot of flexibility in rotations.
Micic is the best pass-first pg in the class, and at 6'5", he's got great size for position. Trey will be a good pg, but he is kind of a chucker. We need a pass first with great PnR skills to back him up.
Fair is a good defender, and lethal catch and shooter, which is really all we want unless we get jabari or wiggins on the wing. With butks, hayward, burke, exum?, & micic? all being ball dominant, we need our snipers.
Burke, micic, exum, neto
Exum, burks, hayward
Hayward, burks, fair
Kanter, marvin, evans
Favors, Gobert, Kanter
https://www.nbadraft.net/2014mock_draft
It has us taking:
Dante Exum @ #7
Vailje Micic @ #23
&
CJ Fair @ #37
.
I really like Exum, and if he's there at 7, it's a no-brainer. Could play 1 or 2. Will allow for a lot of flexibility in rotations.
Micic is the best pass-first pg in the class, and at 6'5", he's got great size for position. Trey will be a good pg, but he is kind of a chucker. We need a pass first with great PnR skills to back him up.
Fair is a good defender, and lethal catch and shooter, which is really all we want unless we get jabari or wiggins on the wing. With butks, hayward, burke, exum?, & micic? all being ball dominant, we need our snipers.
Burke, micic, exum, neto
Exum, burks, hayward
Hayward, burks, fair
Kanter, marvin, evans
Favors, Gobert, Kanter
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
Yeah, i really don't see it either, but they do... Which is enough for me to hope.
Yip, especially with all the high profile college kids being underwhelming
Bawse Dawg
Well-Known Member
I guranntee Laker
Since this never came up in this thread - What's your opinions on the proposed 20 year old age limit that's being introduced in 2016?
I say introduced as I expect it to be this way:
NBPA: Yo Silver, you guys are making so much cash, share some of it!
Silver: My owners really like making profits! But we can give you 55% instead of 50% BRI. In exchange we want the age limit!
NBPA: Deal!
My opinion is a little bit split. I think he's right that it would boost the quality. But it would hold back a couple top tier talents an additional year in which they could get hurt. But then at the same time they're already forced to go 1 year to college. So it's not like they're not being forced to take a risk on their health already once they turned 18.
Since I'm the math/statistics guy I took a look at the one and dones since they were introduced in 2006.
In 2006 2 freshmen were drafted in the first round(Tyrus Thomas(4th) and Shawne Williams(17th)) - both busts.
2007: Teams selected wiser in the deeper 2007 draft. 6 freshmen were selected in the lottery, and only one of them was a bust relative to the draft position(Brendan Wright at 8th). One was injured so I don't wanna judge that. Mike Conley #4 is a reasonable pick who took a little longer to get acclimated in the league. Hawes(10th) and Thad Young(12th) are good value for their selections as well. Past the lottery it's different. Javaris Crittenton(19th) is in jail and Daequan Cook(21st) is playing near Stuttgart in Germany.
2008: We've got 7 lottery freshmen but with mixed results. Beasley was obviously a mistake even though the talent was always there. I don't think college would have changed his situation, since student athletes mostly aren't really attending class when they don't want to. OJ Mayo at #3 was obvi a HUGE MISTAKE(in the GOB Bluth voice from Arrested Development).
Jerryd Bayless at #11 and Anthony Randolph at 14 were also mistakes that might have been avoided if they were given more time in college.
The 2nd half of the first round included JJ Hickson at #19, Kostas Koufos at 23 and Donte Green at 28. Pretty good quality if you forget about Green.
In 2009 only 2 lottery freshmen were selected. Tyreke Evans at #4 and DeMar DeRozan at #9. De Rozan obviously right now looks like a steal, while Tyreke Evans never could develop a jump shot and the change in the culture of the game from hero ball to team ball was his neck breaker. In the 2nd half we got Jrue Holiday at 17 and BJ Mullens at 24. Mullens wanted to return to school but his family urged him to enter the draft as they needed some cash. His career has been underwhelming but for a #24 hail mary on a shooting big it wasn't that bad. He just was very hyped out of high school.
The next year 7 freshmen were drafted in the first round. High lottery picks Wall, Favors and Cousins are very successful, while Xavier Henry(#12) was never as good as some thought he might be in part due to injuries, opportunities and probably also his attitude
He's still fairly young and if he can stay healthy and the games with the Lakers weren't a fluke he can still get some checks!
Bledsoe(#18), Bradley(#19) were big steals a couple years later. Daniel Orton(#29). Let's not talk about Daniel Orton.
The freshmen class of 2011 is devastatingly BAD up to this point. 4 lottery picks, 3 busts over the duration of their rookie contract. Kanter(#3), Thompson(#4) and Knight(#8) have needed a lot of time to get going. Very good argument for a two and through rule.Tobias Harris(#19) also needed time to scratch his potential, as did Cory Joseph(#29). Also there was the first freshmen second rounder with Josh Selby at #49. Who's Josh Selby?
In 2012 a total of 8 Freshmen were drafted. 5 in the lottery, 3 of them very productive relative to their selection. AD, Beal and Drummond offered very above average rookie play. Especially when you factor in age. But AD and Drummond have almost unique bodies in the league. Beal is a very skilled shooter.
MKG at #2 and Austin Rivers (#10) were absolutely not ready for the big show. Outside the lottery we've got Mo Harkless who offered a very solid rookie season on a big tanking team. On a real team he'd been buried on the bench. Tony Wroten at 25 was also a non factor to the extent that he was traded from Memphis this summer but he really bounced back with the big opportunity he got from the Tankadelphia Sixers. Marquis Teague(#29) looks like a coattail surfer and another guy named Quincy Miller was drafted in the second at #38.
If I compare this group to the group that took their time, I can't really see a huge difference in long term success. Most very talented freshmen went their way and just as many current stars have stayed at least 2 years. But there's a group that strengthens the argument. It's very rare to have rooks that offer starter level qualities and left as one and dones, when you consider the talent. Most need an extra year to develop their game/mature.
Also you have cpt coattail type of situations but that's solely on the team to take a chance at a very young prospect who simply was another part of a winning team.
So for the overall quality of the game the two and through makes sense IMO with very few exceptions. So you let the sure things suffer because other guys manage to cash in on their (over)hype. That's my conclusion if the rule happens. I also like Silver's D-League suggestion, but that would mean people have to actually go watch these games, you need high quality basketball teachers and also fair salaries.
I say introduced as I expect it to be this way:
NBPA: Yo Silver, you guys are making so much cash, share some of it!
Silver: My owners really like making profits! But we can give you 55% instead of 50% BRI. In exchange we want the age limit!
NBPA: Deal!
My opinion is a little bit split. I think he's right that it would boost the quality. But it would hold back a couple top tier talents an additional year in which they could get hurt. But then at the same time they're already forced to go 1 year to college. So it's not like they're not being forced to take a risk on their health already once they turned 18.
Since I'm the math/statistics guy I took a look at the one and dones since they were introduced in 2006.
In 2006 2 freshmen were drafted in the first round(Tyrus Thomas(4th) and Shawne Williams(17th)) - both busts.
2007: Teams selected wiser in the deeper 2007 draft. 6 freshmen were selected in the lottery, and only one of them was a bust relative to the draft position(Brendan Wright at 8th). One was injured so I don't wanna judge that. Mike Conley #4 is a reasonable pick who took a little longer to get acclimated in the league. Hawes(10th) and Thad Young(12th) are good value for their selections as well. Past the lottery it's different. Javaris Crittenton(19th) is in jail and Daequan Cook(21st) is playing near Stuttgart in Germany.
2008: We've got 7 lottery freshmen but with mixed results. Beasley was obviously a mistake even though the talent was always there. I don't think college would have changed his situation, since student athletes mostly aren't really attending class when they don't want to. OJ Mayo at #3 was obvi a HUGE MISTAKE(in the GOB Bluth voice from Arrested Development).
Jerryd Bayless at #11 and Anthony Randolph at 14 were also mistakes that might have been avoided if they were given more time in college.
The 2nd half of the first round included JJ Hickson at #19, Kostas Koufos at 23 and Donte Green at 28. Pretty good quality if you forget about Green.
In 2009 only 2 lottery freshmen were selected. Tyreke Evans at #4 and DeMar DeRozan at #9. De Rozan obviously right now looks like a steal, while Tyreke Evans never could develop a jump shot and the change in the culture of the game from hero ball to team ball was his neck breaker. In the 2nd half we got Jrue Holiday at 17 and BJ Mullens at 24. Mullens wanted to return to school but his family urged him to enter the draft as they needed some cash. His career has been underwhelming but for a #24 hail mary on a shooting big it wasn't that bad. He just was very hyped out of high school.
The next year 7 freshmen were drafted in the first round. High lottery picks Wall, Favors and Cousins are very successful, while Xavier Henry(#12) was never as good as some thought he might be in part due to injuries, opportunities and probably also his attitude
He's still fairly young and if he can stay healthy and the games with the Lakers weren't a fluke he can still get some checks!Bledsoe(#18), Bradley(#19) were big steals a couple years later. Daniel Orton(#29). Let's not talk about Daniel Orton.
The freshmen class of 2011 is devastatingly BAD up to this point. 4 lottery picks, 3 busts over the duration of their rookie contract. Kanter(#3), Thompson(#4) and Knight(#8) have needed a lot of time to get going. Very good argument for a two and through rule.Tobias Harris(#19) also needed time to scratch his potential, as did Cory Joseph(#29). Also there was the first freshmen second rounder with Josh Selby at #49. Who's Josh Selby?
In 2012 a total of 8 Freshmen were drafted. 5 in the lottery, 3 of them very productive relative to their selection. AD, Beal and Drummond offered very above average rookie play. Especially when you factor in age. But AD and Drummond have almost unique bodies in the league. Beal is a very skilled shooter.
MKG at #2 and Austin Rivers (#10) were absolutely not ready for the big show. Outside the lottery we've got Mo Harkless who offered a very solid rookie season on a big tanking team. On a real team he'd been buried on the bench. Tony Wroten at 25 was also a non factor to the extent that he was traded from Memphis this summer but he really bounced back with the big opportunity he got from the Tankadelphia Sixers. Marquis Teague(#29) looks like a coattail surfer and another guy named Quincy Miller was drafted in the second at #38.
If I compare this group to the group that took their time, I can't really see a huge difference in long term success. Most very talented freshmen went their way and just as many current stars have stayed at least 2 years. But there's a group that strengthens the argument. It's very rare to have rooks that offer starter level qualities and left as one and dones, when you consider the talent. Most need an extra year to develop their game/mature.
Also you have cpt coattail type of situations but that's solely on the team to take a chance at a very young prospect who simply was another part of a winning team.
So for the overall quality of the game the two and through makes sense IMO with very few exceptions. So you let the sure things suffer because other guys manage to cash in on their (over)hype. That's my conclusion if the rule happens. I also like Silver's D-League suggestion, but that would mean people have to actually go watch these games, you need high quality basketball teachers and also fair salaries.
Last edited:
Game6Conley
Well-Known Member
after all these years the All-Highschool Draftee team is still badass
Shaun Livingston - Lou Williams - Monta Ellis
Gerald Green - CJ Miles - JR Smith - Martell Webster - Kobe
Lebron James - Josh Smith - Dorell Wright
Al Jefferson - Amir Johnson - Amare Stoudemire - Kevin Garnett
Dwight Howard - Tyson Chandler - Andray Blatche - Andrew Bynum
Shaun Livingston - Lou Williams - Monta Ellis
Gerald Green - CJ Miles - JR Smith - Martell Webster - Kobe
Lebron James - Josh Smith - Dorell Wright
Al Jefferson - Amir Johnson - Amare Stoudemire - Kevin Garnett
Dwight Howard - Tyson Chandler - Andray Blatche - Andrew Bynum
Okay then I'll put together an all one and done team:
Derrick Rose - John Wall - Eric Bledsoe - Mike Conley Jr. - Jrue Holiday - Avery Bradley
Kyrie Irving - DeMar DeRozan - Bradley Beal - Eric Gordon - Jamal Crawford - OJ MAyo
Kevin Durant - Crymelo Anthony - Luol Deng - Trevor Ariza
Anthony Davis - Kevin Love - Chris Bosh - Zach Randolph - Thad Young - Tobias Harris
Derrick Favors - DeMarcus Cousins - Andre Drummond - Spencer Hawes - *Greg Oden*
And a top two and through team:
Chris Paul - Russell Westbrook - Rajon Rondo - Kyle Lowry - Jeff Teague - MCW - Trey Burks
James Harden - Alec Burks - Joe Johnson
Paul George - Gordon Hayward - Andre Iguodala - Rudy Gay
LaMarcus Aldridge - Blake Griffin - Ryan Anderson
Brook Lopez - Greg Monroe
And I bet I forgot some people
Since this never came up in this thread - What's your opinions on the proposed 20 year old age limit that's being introduced in 2016?
I say introduced as I expect it to be this way:
NBPA: Yo Silver, you guys are making so much cash, share some of it!
Silver: My owners really like making profits! But we can give you 55% instead of 50% BRI. In exchange we want the age limit!
NBPA: Deal!
My opinion is a little bit split. I think he's right that it would boost the quality. But it would hold back a couple top tier talents an additional year in which they could get hurt. But then at the same time they're already forced to go 1 year to college. So it's not like they're not being forced to take a risk on their health already once they turned 18.
Since I'm the math/statistics guy I took a look at the one and dones since they were introduced in 2006.
In 2006 2 freshmen were drafted in the first round(Tyrus Thomas(4th) and Shawne Williams(17th)) - both busts.
2007: Teams selected wiser in the deeper 2007 draft. 6 freshmen were selected in the lottery, and only one of them was a bust relative to the draft position(Brendan Wright at 8th). One was injured so I don't wanna judge that. Mike Conley #4 is a reasonable pick who took a little longer to get acclimated in the league. Hawes(10th) and Thad Young(12th) are good value for their selections as well. Past the lottery it's different. Javaris Crittenton(19th) is in jail and Daequan Cook(21st) is playing near Stuttgart in Germany.
2008: We've got 7 lottery freshmen but with mixed results. Beasley was obviously a mistake even though the talent was always there. I don't think college would have changed his situation, since student athletes mostly aren't really attending class when they don't want to. OJ Mayo at #3 was obvi a HUGE MISTAKE(in the GOB Bluth voice from Arrested Development).
Jerryd Bayless at #11 and Anthony Randolph at 14 were also mistakes that might have been avoided if they were given more time in college.
The 2nd half of the first round included JJ Hickson at #19, Kostas Koufos at 23 and Donte Green at 28. Pretty good quality if you forget about Green.
In 2009 only 2 lottery freshmen were selected. Tyreke Evans at #4 and DeMar DeRozan at #9. De Rozan obviously right now looks like a steal, while Tyreke Evans never could develop a jump shot and the change in the culture of the game from hero ball to team ball was his neck breaker. In the 2nd half we got Jrue Holiday at 17 and BJ Mullens at 24. Mullens wanted to return to school but his family urged him to enter the draft as they needed some cash. His career has been underwhelming but for a #24 hail mary on a shooting big it wasn't that bad. He just was very hyped out of high school.
The next year 7 freshmen were drafted in the first round. High lottery picks Wall, Favors and Cousins are very successful, while Xavier Henry(#12) was never as good as some thought he might be in part due to injuries, opportunities and probably also his attitude
Bledsoe(#18), Bradley(#19) were big steals a couple years later. Daniel Orton(#29). Let's not talk about Daniel Orton.
The freshmen class of 2011 is devastatingly BAD up to this point. 4 lottery picks, 3 busts over the duration of their rookie contract. Kanter(#3), Thompson(#4) and Knight(#8) have needed a lot of time to get going. Very good argument for a two and through rule.Tobias Harris(#19) also needed time to scratch his potential, as did Cory Joseph(#29). Also there was the first freshmen second rounder with Josh Selby at #49. Who's Josh Selby?
In 2012 a total of 8 Freshmen were drafted. 5 in the lottery, 3 of them very productive relative to their selection. AD, Beal and Drummond offered very above average rookie play. Especially when you factor in age. But AD and Drummond have almost unique bodies in the league. Beal is a very skilled shooter.
MKG at #2 and Austin Rivers (#10) were absolutely not ready for the big show. Outside the lottery we've got Mo Harkless who offered a very solid rookie season on a big tanking team. On a real team he'd been buried on the bench. Tony Wroten at 25 was also a non factor to the extent that he was traded from Memphis this summer but he really bounced back with the big opportunity he got from the Tankadelphia Sixers. Marquis Teague(#29) looks like a coattail surfer and another guy named Quincy Miller was drafted in the second at #38.
If I compare this group to the group that took their time, I can't really see a huge difference in long term success. Most very talented freshmen went their way and just as many current stars have stayed at least 2 years. But there's a group that strengthens the argument. It's very rare to have rooks that offer starter level qualities and left as one and dones, when you consider the talent. Most need an extra year to develop their game/mature.
Also you have cpt coattail type of situations but that's solely on the team to take a chance at a very young prospect who simply was another part of a winning team.
So for the overall quality of the game the two and through makes sense IMO with very few exceptions. So you let the sure things suffer because other guys manage to cash in on their (over)hype. That's my conclusion if the rule happens. I also like Silver's D-League suggestion, but that would mean people have to actually go watch these games, you need high quality basketball teachers and also fair salaries.
You can't be serious.
I like him alright. Wouldn't take him in the lottery. Reminds me a lot of CJ Miles. Has a good feel for offense and can get hot, but usually doesn't. Not a bad player to draft in the early 20's.
Hantlers
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I agree with that. He's got enough potential that he's worth a later pick, but there's no chance I would take him in the lottery.
He's a "shooter" who shoots 40%. Why should I think that he's going to get better in the NBA?
I think he'll get better and stuff. But that's just my own prediction. We'll see but I think if he's going to develop in a way that I think he's going to help the team that drafts him, no matter where he lands.
About what? I just looked at facts and shared my conclusions.
Well then don't. Maybe one or two do it. Maybe another 2 or 3 will read the first segment where I want to start a discussion about proposed two and through rule and another 2 have me on ignore. So what?
*Not trying to be a dick.*
Yeah I understand that. I just think if a couple read it, one has an opinion he wants to share that can light a discussion. Then others will respond to that and stuff.
I wanted to take a look at the time span of one and dones and look how their careers developed. So I was like: Instead of picking a few and then reading whine about how I cherrypick, I simply looked at all of them. It's only 8 years or something since this rule exists.
And things that I noticed was that nearly everyone other the future all-nba 1st and 2nd team guys had productivity issues early on. Very few successful point guards are one and dones. And those who became very good also had problems to get going.
Questions I can derive out of it are:
-Do playmakers benefit more from learning in college and improving their leadership skills?
-Is a point guard's talent less visible when they're very young and thus they're getting the recognition at a later point(e.g. sophomore season)?
-Are NBA franchises simply bad at evaluating point guards?
-Is the superior physique of wings and bigs a difference that leads to them more often being a one and done and having a quicker translation of their bodies?
-Do their bodies make it more simple for scouts to grade them as good talents?
-Is it fair to withhold next level talents like Irving, Davis for one more year because all the other guys that use their hype to get drafted hurt the league and perception of rooks?