Following potential 2017 draftees...

[Handlogten's Heros]

I hate dumping Favors. And I hate taking Harris' contract. I prefer signing any of Hill, Hayward and Ingles to getting Harris' contract.

Just one caveat... if we dumped Favs we'd get future assets or cheaper young guys... just meant his salary has to come off the books.

 

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Just one caveat... if we dumped Favs we'd get future assets or cheaper young guys... just meant his salary has to come off the books.

That would make it less hateable.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Do you think Leuer has positive value? I don't. They need to pay. 3 year x10M contract!

Right but its not that negative in a vacuum. He's worth 6-8 per year, but for us it screws us up enough cap wise to not make sense for us.

 

[Chargers Jazz Angels]

He's really good... better than Rubio, Bledsoe, etc. and is affordable. He fits perfectly. He's not injury prone, just had bad luck. Hill at 4/80 is much better imo than trading what it would cost to get a downgrade on a better contract. He's also won more and has experience... it helped us a ton this year.

He's also one of the closest guys with Hayward (from what I hear).


I'm not paying the guy 4/132 but 4/80-100 is reasonable. I'm also not the biggest believer in Dante.

I would do 3 years 60 million but he is to old and to hurt to go 4 years and I would not go any more then 20 million.

I would rather look at some one in the 10 to 13 million and spend the remainder on finding another bench scorer.

 

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Right but its not that negative in a vacuum. He's worth 6-8 per year, but for us it screws us up enough cap wise to not make sense for us.

Pretty much. For us he's about 9M too expensive. We cannot afford any luxury items and Leuer is exactly that.

Lets say we give Hill Hayward and Ingles 60M
Gobert 22
JJ 11
Favors 12
Burks 11
Exum 5
Hood 2.5
Leuer 10M
Bolomboy 1
+3 more contracts 3M
----------------------
138M

That's 17M over the luxury tax. Good luck cleaning that up. You will give back the assets you got just to clean Burks' salary...

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I think it is smart to send players to teams outside their range... let them meet the guy and fall in love if it is a good fit. May be a long-term play or DL may have done the agent a solid in the past and he is returning the favor.

That almost never happens. There's too much risk that the player could get injured, which could negatively affect other workouts and the player's draft position. The agent isn't going to send his client to workout for a team before the draft unless there's a credible possibility that the team will actually draft the player. It's a risk/reward proposition.

It's remarkable that the Jazz are getting Mitchell to work out with them, let alone in a 3-on-3 setting with lesser ranked players. No agent is going to allow this if his client has nothing to gain from it. Teams work out players at or below their draft range.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuBivJEZfyE&feature=youtu.be

Go to 47:00 on this video, this kind of highlights why I'm not all that high on Wilson. 1-on-1 isolated on Caleb Swanigan, who is a noted poor perimeter defender, and he can' get by him and dribbles it off his foot. In the NBA is he going to be able to do anything in the half-court against PF's if he it isn't a spot-up 3 or off-ball cut to the rim? I guess that reality isn't all the bad if he turns out to be a pretty good 3pt shooter and defender, kind of like a 3&D wing archetype who can play the 4, but it limits his upside.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

That almost never happens. There's too much risk that the player could get injured, which could negatively affect other workouts and the player's draft position. The agent isn't going to send his client to workout for a team before the draft unless there's a credible possibility that the team will actually draft the player. It's a risk/reward proposition.

It's remarkable that the Jazz are getting Mitchell to work out with them, let alone in a 3-on-3 setting with lesser ranked players. No agent is going to allow this if his client has nothing to gain from it. Teams work out players at or below their draft range.

Oh please, it happens. It's less frequent, but let's not act like this never happens. You are reading way too much into this. The Jazz aren't going to detail to them a trade they are working on. They just call the agent and say they like him and they say yes or no depending on if they like the Jazz. It's that simple.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Pretty much. For us he's about 9M too expensive. We cannot afford any luxury items and Leuer is exactly that.

Lets say we give Hill Hayward and Ingles 60M
Gobert 22
JJ 11
Favors 12
Burks 11
Exum 5
Hood 2.5
Leuer 10M
Bolomboy 1
+3 more contracts 3M
----------------------
138M

That's 17M over the luxury tax. Good luck cleaning that up. You will give back the assets you got just to clean Burks' salary...

I know the numbers... I agree with you to us it's a no go unless we move Burks and Favs salary. His market value is not 1 M doe... if he was a FA would he get 3/21? I think so or close to it 3/30 is too spendy though.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Couple things ---

** The Jazz are not motivated to 'dump' Favors. They're motivated to see if he can return healthy next season and boost his trade value. A team that wants his Bird rights will trade for him at the deadline next season. At the same time, having a productive Favors on the team helps the Jazz's pitch to Hayward. If the Jazz get a compelling offer for Favors, that's one thing, but the Jazz definitely won't dump him.

** The Jazz really would like to add a Stretch 5 to the team, but John Leuer does not seem like an attractive option.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Do you think Leuer has positive value? I don't. They need to pay. 3 year x10M contract!

I'm pretty sure they really like Leuer. I dont think they are looking to trade him, at least not to the tune of giving up 12 draft spots.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Oh please, it happens. It's less frequent, but let's not act like this never happens. You are reading way too much into this. The Jazz aren't going to detail to them a trade they are working on. They just call the agent and say they like him and they say yes or no depending on if they like the Jazz. It's that simple.

The Jazz won't go into detail, but they'll convince the agent there's a legit chance they will be picking in Mitchell's range. Otherwise, the agent won't send him.

 

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I know the numbers... I agree with you to us it's a no go unless we move Burks and Favs salary. His market value is not 1 M doe... if he was a FA would he get 3/21? I think so or close to it 3/30 is too spendy though.

If he doesn't hit the 3 and he hasn't been hitting it this year, is he really worth 7M? Like... REALLY? He's a 34% career 3p shooter. How valuable is that?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Oh please, it happens. It's less frequent, but let's not act like this never happens. You are reading way too much into this. The Jazz aren't going to detail to them a trade they are working on. They just call the agent and say they like him and they say yes or no depending on if they like the Jazz. It's that simple.

They may say they are interested and at very least agree to rave about the kid when he leaves. I agree though they don't need to have a deal in place or outline it. There is likely not much to read into other than I think agents like us and our development culture is desirable to some.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If he doesn't hit the 3 and he hasn't been hitting it this year, is he really worth 7M? Like... REALLY? He's a 34% career 3p shooter. How valuable is that?

For a big that can play some small ball 5 it's valuable. 7M is less than the mle. I'd like him at less than that but if he was a free agent he'd get close to that. Wasn't he also coming off an injury?

 

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The Jazz won't go into detail, but they'll convince the agent there's a legit chance they will be picking in Mitchell's range. Otherwise, the agent won't send him.

There's always plausible deniability. The Jazz can always tell the agent - we might be willing to move up if they ask why they want to see him when he's projected much higher than our picks. They might be thinking about trading up and having some plans about it and it might still not happen.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The Jazz won't go into detail, but they'll convince the agent there's a legit chance they will be picking in Mitchell's range. Otherwise, the agent won't send him.

So all you have to do to an agent to get a workout is be like "Oh yeah, we can definitely trade up for him, just trust us"?

No. That doesnt matter. The main thing that matters is Mitchell and his agent/camp believe the Jazz are a good fit and they are happy with that outcome if it happens. Any GM could spin a web of BS that they can trade up if that's all they had to do to get a workout.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Couple things ---

** The Jazz are not motivated to 'dump' Favors. They're motivated to see if he can return healthy next season and boost his trade value. A team that wants his Bird rights will trade for him at the deadline next season. At the same time, having a productive Favors on the team helps the Jazz's pitch to Hayward. If the Jazz get a compelling offer for Favors, that's one thing, but the Jazz definitely won't dump him.

** The Jazz really would like to add a Stretch 5 to the team, but John Leuer does not seem like an attractive option.

You might be right but I don't see his value increasing much with only half a season left on his deal. Maybe to a team that can still work a renegotiable and extend...

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

There's always plausible deniability. The Jazz can always tell the agent - we might be willing to move up if they ask why they want to see him when he's projected much higher than our picks. They might be thinking about trading up and having some plans about it and it might still not happen.

True. The Jazz don't have to commit to trading up, obviously. They just need to convince the agent that there's a real possibility and that it's worth everyone's time and worth the risk of injury to the player for the player to do the workout.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

So all you have to do to an agent to get a workout is be like "Oh yeah, we can definitely trade up for him, just trust us"?

No. That doesnt matter. The main thing that matters is Mitchell and his agent/camp believe the Jazz are a good fit and they are happy with that outcome if it happens. Any GM could spin a web of BS that they can trade up if that's all they had to do to get a workout.

When was the last time the Jazz got a player in for a workout who was projected 10+ spots above where Jazz were drafting?