Chargers Jazz Angels
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Nwora might have helped himself also
Following Potential 2020 draftees
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Nwora might have helped himself also
I'm sure it didn't hurt. On the other hand, everyone knew shooting was his go-to skill. Maybe he simply avoided any sliding down.
Handlogten's Heros
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I think we done locked in on Woodard. If Locke has another 10 mentions of him this week on the pod we will know.
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Heard on a pod that Philly May have given a promise to Isiah Joe... not sure if that was pre-Morey but they had a leak on Thybulle last year too... so maybe there is some truth there.
zyzz
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Woodard is definitely a J A Z Z D N A guy
zyzz
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Vecenie had a player comparison podcast. I didn't listen to it, but someone on reddit posted a condensed version so you don't have to listen to a long podcast and can just search for a player you're interested in.
LaMelo Ball: high = taller pre-injury Rondo (good guard rebounder, high level distributor, LaMelo probably sees himself more as a scorer, Rondo is assist first and Melo might be score first, needs to actually be engaged/good defensively), high school Shaun Livingston, low = pass first bottom five starting PG (taller early/late career Jeff Teague)
James Wiseman: high = hybrid Bosh/Drummond (mobile stretch big with rim protection, worried he'll have a low motor similar to Drummond, could bring some Bosh-lite shooting and similar mid/low post moves, Bosh is a more quick twitch athlete but Wiseman is more physically imposing, middle ground of Bosh/Drummond could be Turner...although Wiseman seems better athletically), low = Whiteside (rim runner/protector)
Anthony Edwards: high = more athletic Beal ("more explosive Beal with similar flaws," inconsistent on defense but could get locked in on that end after a couple good offensive possessions, Wade/Oladipo/Mitchell comps are off cause they're way more aggressive drivers instead of settling for pull-ups), low = Waiters
Obi Toppin: high = Stoudemire-lite, low = Bagley (needs to play the 5 because limited defensively)
Oneyka Okongwu: high = better defense Montrezl Harrell (won't get played off the floor at the end of games, not gonna be an all-nba defender like Bam), low = slightly worse Tristan Thompson (Vecenie feels he's one of the safest picks in the draft and has actually moved him up to 4 on his board)
Issac Okoro: high = "jacked up Andre Iguodala" (later career Dre when he transitioned to the front court, similar shooter in college, good driver, good passer/playmaker, has the defensive tools and feel, trust him not to make mistakes in crunch), Jaylen Brown-lite, low = Justise Winslow
RJ Hampton (Vecenie has since slipped him down his board): high = LaVine, low = Exum (without the defensive intensity)
Tyrese Haliburton: high = Lonzo (high end role-player, big guard best suited as the secondary facilitator, worried about fluidity of jumper, worried about finishing at rim, will help teams win and has a great mentality), low = McCaw (lol, inconsistent big guard, best off ball)
Killian Hayes: high = D'lo (left hand dominant, relies on ball screens, high level live dribble passer, better defensively with a worse handle, skeptical he'll hit that ceiling cause of his handle and how unwilling he is to use his right hand), low = forgot to give one (reasons he doesn't agree with people who put him top 3: not a good enough ball handler, not enough burst during drives, teams will sit on his left hand and he might not be able to beat that, can't always knock down jumpers off the catch, will struggle to consistently bring the best of his game)
Deni Avdija (Vecenie is low on him but would be surprised to see him fall out of the top 5): high = smaller less athletic Lamar Odom with worse defense, younger Batum (before he started shooting 3s), low = Hezonja (similar size drafted top 5, but not as good of a shot), hard comp cause he fits the mold of a lot of shooting forwards...but isn't a shooter, Avdija isn't a shooting big he's a playmaking big (point forward, secondary ballhandler, versatile 4 that lacks a jump shot, high level passer, good off screens, smart, his maturity has impressed in interviews and teams think he has an obvious drive to improve, seems to have decent defensive awareness but might not end up a difference maker on that end), Vecenie is low on him because he feels Avdija's skillset needs him to be a high level defender...and he's just not there right now
Devin Vassell: high = Danny Green (maybe a bit more effective offensively), low = 2019/20 Thybulle (5pts a game, big questions about offense but good team defender/role player)
Kira Lewis Jr.: high = Darren Collison or a bigger Ish Smith (average something like 14/6/3), low = Colin Sexton (little out of control, good stats on a bad team), Vecenie jokingly asked why he hates him (cause of the ceiling comps) and Pennie says Collison is a solid pick at 12 and that if you really like Kira you should have him as the top PG in the draft (Vecenie thinks he could be a less bursty Fox at his ceiling)
Aleksej Pokusevski: really hard to give him a comp (he looks like AD on tape but the league he's playing in is absolutely awful), poor on-ball defender (if Okongwu is gonna get thrown around then Poku will be absolutely bullied), seems more fluid than KP, offensive ceiling could be exceptionally high (this year's JJJ with a better 3ball...but how can he play through contract with how skinny/lanky he is?)
Patrick Williams: high = physicality of Kawhi with OG's game build, (big/strong, ability to switch, good passer, needs to be developed well to actually reach that Kawhi-lite ceiling, reactive/good team defender, "fascinating skill set, one of the most interesting skillsets that I can remember...because he's so enormous and so raw at this stage"), low = Corey Maggette (role player off bench)
Saddiq Bey: high = peak DeMarre Carrol, low = 2019/20 George Niang or rookie Cam Johnson (will still shoot at high level so he'll have a spot in the league, but defense might not translate because of athleticism, role player but not starting level player)
Tyrese Maxey: high = Lou Williams or Colby White (scoring punch off the bench, might be a worse scorer but will be a better defender, especially off-ball), better ceiling Alec Burks?
Aaron Nesmith: high = Joe Harris (maybe even Gary Trent cause of the physicality?), Allen Crabbe is probably the type of player he is, low = late Hawks Tauren Prince (doesn't really impact winning)
(stop doing high/low and just start giving straight player comps)
Cole Anthony: Austin Rivers (top high school prospect that tanked their stock in college), plays through contact well and gets to the stripe but isn't explosive, volume shooter that'll knock down shots, will play well off-ball, could end up being solid defensively
Precious Achiuwa: wants to be a Robert Covington who handles the ball (Gerald Wallace style...won't be anywhere as good), but will probably end up a Daniel Theis (good lateral quickness, good rim protector), better defense Faried?
Desmond Bane: Bryn Forbes with 10 more pounds of muscle ("Desmond Bane looks like a superhero", "built like a pro-wrestler"), Gary Trent Jr.
Tre Jones: pre-Raptors Lowry (Rockets/Memphis, bench player who wasn't shooting great to start, high level defender, eventually played his way into the starting lineup), better athlete than his brother Tyus
Malachi Flynn: Fred VanFleet (pro-style game, effective in pick-n-roll, can get off shot against more athletic opponents, finds spot well, chip on shoulder, Flynn has a crazy work ethic and breathes basketball), more he hears about him the more Vecenie wants to move him up his board (huge fan and thinks he'll play in the league for a long time), feels Philly should take him over Tre Jones and Cole Anthony
Tyrell Terry: Steve Kerr (played PG for the Bulls but wasn't the initiator, same role would be perfect for Terry cause he's unselfish/great shooter/not the best passer/not the best ball handler), stock wise it feels like Jerome Robinson (Vecenie put him in the late 1st pretty early in the process and he kept moving up...eventually was constantly mocked in the late 1st by pundits and then went 13, which was like 15 spots higher than Vecenie ever had him), mocked Terry in the mid/late 1st a good while back but doesn't think he should move as high up boards as some have pushed him, put on 15 pounds but he'll still be super skinny, take him if your team can wait to develop him (Bucks/Philly shouldn't), he'll play/be effective in the NBA for a long while, can help winning teams
Xavier Tillman: Haslem-type with Horford facilitating
Grant Riller: Lou Williams (great finisher, gets separation at a high level, shoots at high level, not a defender...at all)
Isaiah Stewart: bigger Montrezl Harrell (maybe Thomas Bryant is his floor?), plays hard/high motor but might struggle defensively against other bigs, expect him to be a good shooter
Jalen Smith: Marquese Chriss (but a stiffer athlete with a real jumper), this year's Chris Boucher?, hope is he can be Serge Ibaka (but way less athletic), Thon Maker?
Robert Woodard: more athletic Jae Crowder?, Jeremey Grant or Al-Farouq Aminu, decent shot with good defense, switchable/versatile forward
Josh Green: hope is Norman Powell (probably won't be as good offensively), high level on-ball defender (pretty good off-ball too), 3nD wing...who isn't the best shooter, Garrett Temple-ish
Elijah Hughes: Oubre-lite (that was his role in college, worse athlete tho), more mature Daniel House ("mature" part is making fun of bubble-House, somewhat inefficient in college), little worried defensively but won't hurt you offensively
LaMelo Ball: high = taller pre-injury Rondo (good guard rebounder, high level distributor, LaMelo probably sees himself more as a scorer, Rondo is assist first and Melo might be score first, needs to actually be engaged/good defensively), high school Shaun Livingston, low = pass first bottom five starting PG (taller early/late career Jeff Teague)
James Wiseman: high = hybrid Bosh/Drummond (mobile stretch big with rim protection, worried he'll have a low motor similar to Drummond, could bring some Bosh-lite shooting and similar mid/low post moves, Bosh is a more quick twitch athlete but Wiseman is more physically imposing, middle ground of Bosh/Drummond could be Turner...although Wiseman seems better athletically), low = Whiteside (rim runner/protector)
Anthony Edwards: high = more athletic Beal ("more explosive Beal with similar flaws," inconsistent on defense but could get locked in on that end after a couple good offensive possessions, Wade/Oladipo/Mitchell comps are off cause they're way more aggressive drivers instead of settling for pull-ups), low = Waiters
Obi Toppin: high = Stoudemire-lite, low = Bagley (needs to play the 5 because limited defensively)
Oneyka Okongwu: high = better defense Montrezl Harrell (won't get played off the floor at the end of games, not gonna be an all-nba defender like Bam), low = slightly worse Tristan Thompson (Vecenie feels he's one of the safest picks in the draft and has actually moved him up to 4 on his board)
Issac Okoro: high = "jacked up Andre Iguodala" (later career Dre when he transitioned to the front court, similar shooter in college, good driver, good passer/playmaker, has the defensive tools and feel, trust him not to make mistakes in crunch), Jaylen Brown-lite, low = Justise Winslow
RJ Hampton (Vecenie has since slipped him down his board): high = LaVine, low = Exum (without the defensive intensity)
Tyrese Haliburton: high = Lonzo (high end role-player, big guard best suited as the secondary facilitator, worried about fluidity of jumper, worried about finishing at rim, will help teams win and has a great mentality), low = McCaw (lol, inconsistent big guard, best off ball)
Killian Hayes: high = D'lo (left hand dominant, relies on ball screens, high level live dribble passer, better defensively with a worse handle, skeptical he'll hit that ceiling cause of his handle and how unwilling he is to use his right hand), low = forgot to give one (reasons he doesn't agree with people who put him top 3: not a good enough ball handler, not enough burst during drives, teams will sit on his left hand and he might not be able to beat that, can't always knock down jumpers off the catch, will struggle to consistently bring the best of his game)
Deni Avdija (Vecenie is low on him but would be surprised to see him fall out of the top 5): high = smaller less athletic Lamar Odom with worse defense, younger Batum (before he started shooting 3s), low = Hezonja (similar size drafted top 5, but not as good of a shot), hard comp cause he fits the mold of a lot of shooting forwards...but isn't a shooter, Avdija isn't a shooting big he's a playmaking big (point forward, secondary ballhandler, versatile 4 that lacks a jump shot, high level passer, good off screens, smart, his maturity has impressed in interviews and teams think he has an obvious drive to improve, seems to have decent defensive awareness but might not end up a difference maker on that end), Vecenie is low on him because he feels Avdija's skillset needs him to be a high level defender...and he's just not there right now
Devin Vassell: high = Danny Green (maybe a bit more effective offensively), low = 2019/20 Thybulle (5pts a game, big questions about offense but good team defender/role player)
Kira Lewis Jr.: high = Darren Collison or a bigger Ish Smith (average something like 14/6/3), low = Colin Sexton (little out of control, good stats on a bad team), Vecenie jokingly asked why he hates him (cause of the ceiling comps) and Pennie says Collison is a solid pick at 12 and that if you really like Kira you should have him as the top PG in the draft (Vecenie thinks he could be a less bursty Fox at his ceiling)
Aleksej Pokusevski: really hard to give him a comp (he looks like AD on tape but the league he's playing in is absolutely awful), poor on-ball defender (if Okongwu is gonna get thrown around then Poku will be absolutely bullied), seems more fluid than KP, offensive ceiling could be exceptionally high (this year's JJJ with a better 3ball...but how can he play through contract with how skinny/lanky he is?)
Patrick Williams: high = physicality of Kawhi with OG's game build, (big/strong, ability to switch, good passer, needs to be developed well to actually reach that Kawhi-lite ceiling, reactive/good team defender, "fascinating skill set, one of the most interesting skillsets that I can remember...because he's so enormous and so raw at this stage"), low = Corey Maggette (role player off bench)
Saddiq Bey: high = peak DeMarre Carrol, low = 2019/20 George Niang or rookie Cam Johnson (will still shoot at high level so he'll have a spot in the league, but defense might not translate because of athleticism, role player but not starting level player)
Tyrese Maxey: high = Lou Williams or Colby White (scoring punch off the bench, might be a worse scorer but will be a better defender, especially off-ball), better ceiling Alec Burks?
Aaron Nesmith: high = Joe Harris (maybe even Gary Trent cause of the physicality?), Allen Crabbe is probably the type of player he is, low = late Hawks Tauren Prince (doesn't really impact winning)
(stop doing high/low and just start giving straight player comps)
Cole Anthony: Austin Rivers (top high school prospect that tanked their stock in college), plays through contact well and gets to the stripe but isn't explosive, volume shooter that'll knock down shots, will play well off-ball, could end up being solid defensively
Precious Achiuwa: wants to be a Robert Covington who handles the ball (Gerald Wallace style...won't be anywhere as good), but will probably end up a Daniel Theis (good lateral quickness, good rim protector), better defense Faried?
Desmond Bane: Bryn Forbes with 10 more pounds of muscle ("Desmond Bane looks like a superhero", "built like a pro-wrestler"), Gary Trent Jr.
Tre Jones: pre-Raptors Lowry (Rockets/Memphis, bench player who wasn't shooting great to start, high level defender, eventually played his way into the starting lineup), better athlete than his brother Tyus
Malachi Flynn: Fred VanFleet (pro-style game, effective in pick-n-roll, can get off shot against more athletic opponents, finds spot well, chip on shoulder, Flynn has a crazy work ethic and breathes basketball), more he hears about him the more Vecenie wants to move him up his board (huge fan and thinks he'll play in the league for a long time), feels Philly should take him over Tre Jones and Cole Anthony
Tyrell Terry: Steve Kerr (played PG for the Bulls but wasn't the initiator, same role would be perfect for Terry cause he's unselfish/great shooter/not the best passer/not the best ball handler), stock wise it feels like Jerome Robinson (Vecenie put him in the late 1st pretty early in the process and he kept moving up...eventually was constantly mocked in the late 1st by pundits and then went 13, which was like 15 spots higher than Vecenie ever had him), mocked Terry in the mid/late 1st a good while back but doesn't think he should move as high up boards as some have pushed him, put on 15 pounds but he'll still be super skinny, take him if your team can wait to develop him (Bucks/Philly shouldn't), he'll play/be effective in the NBA for a long while, can help winning teams
Xavier Tillman: Haslem-type with Horford facilitating
Grant Riller: Lou Williams (great finisher, gets separation at a high level, shoots at high level, not a defender...at all)
Isaiah Stewart: bigger Montrezl Harrell (maybe Thomas Bryant is his floor?), plays hard/high motor but might struggle defensively against other bigs, expect him to be a good shooter
Jalen Smith: Marquese Chriss (but a stiffer athlete with a real jumper), this year's Chris Boucher?, hope is he can be Serge Ibaka (but way less athletic), Thon Maker?
Robert Woodard: more athletic Jae Crowder?, Jeremey Grant or Al-Farouq Aminu, decent shot with good defense, switchable/versatile forward
Josh Green: hope is Norman Powell (probably won't be as good offensively), high level on-ball defender (pretty good off-ball too), 3nD wing...who isn't the best shooter, Garrett Temple-ish
Elijah Hughes: Oubre-lite (that was his role in college, worse athlete tho), more mature Daniel House ("mature" part is making fun of bubble-House, somewhat inefficient in college), little worried defensively but won't hurt you offensively
For whatever it's worth this was posted on Hawks reddit by someone claiming to be Hawks insider:
So... Jazz aparently want to trade up to that 5-6-7 range for someone specific. If that's the case then who is that player you guys think?
Also... what would it take to trade up to 6? I don't really feel like we have enough to trade that far up. Bogdanovic? Do they want Bogdanovic? Do we want to trade him?Can we extract value out of Conley's expiring via 3 team trade? What about Cleveland or Detroit? If we've contacted Atlanta, chances are we've done it with other teams in that range in case our guy falls there too?
Who might we be targeting? Okoro? Toppin? Hayes? Haliburton? Maledon?
Rumors are Ball has been stinking up the interviews and meetings with teams and might be falling... can it be him?
So... Jazz aparently want to trade up to that 5-6-7 range for someone specific. If that's the case then who is that player you guys think?
Also... what would it take to trade up to 6? I don't really feel like we have enough to trade that far up. Bogdanovic? Do they want Bogdanovic? Do we want to trade him?Can we extract value out of Conley's expiring via 3 team trade? What about Cleveland or Detroit? If we've contacted Atlanta, chances are we've done it with other teams in that range in case our guy falls there too?
Who might we be targeting? Okoro? Toppin? Hayes? Haliburton? Maledon?
Rumors are Ball has been stinking up the interviews and meetings with teams and might be falling... can it be him?
Handlogten's Heros
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That’s some Best Buy rumorz... I like it.
Realistically if you are talking about #6 I think it’s a Rudy trade. Obviously more pieces involved if that were the case. No idea who they target would be but I’d guess Okoro or maybe Hayes if they have some intel.
Don’t think any combo of Bojan or Royce makes sense to get us to #6. Unless we took everything I wouldn’t want a Rudy trade. I’d want Hunter, 6, Capela, Huerter... might even ask for Collins. He’s such a weird guy to fit around and is due a contract extension so not sure they really want to pay him.
Anyone live near an Atlanta Best Buy that can confirm?
If we are to believe the Hawks thing then I'm guessing the prospect would be Killian Hayes.
Please say more about why you think so.
I can see something of fit with DM, but Hayes is nominally a PG and I thought we were kind of moving toward favoring matching Donovan with a less on-ball type. Though I wouldn't expect the Jazz to be that obsessed over Haliburton, at least his skills profile seems a better match.
I could see Okoro or even Patrick Williams (if the Jazz have fallen in love there) as a target just because of the need for wing size/athleticism/defense. Toppin maybe if they're not as down on his defense as most analysts are.
Jose Mayonnaise
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I too believe that Williams would be the target.
Who cares? There is more than enough touches for Mitchell with a PG or SG. It does not matter.
Wonder if the Hawks would do Dedmond + 6 for Bogey+Davis+23
McMillan coached Bogey and Bogey did very well, so he might be pushing for that help?
I could see Pat Williams being the target as well.
Vassell wouldnt surprise me either. Neither would Haliburton.
Would be surprised by almost everyone else.
Okoro cant shoot at all. Ball cant shoot at all. Toppin is too bad at defense and doesnt make sense trading Bogey for. Wiseman/Okongwu only make sense if Gobert is the one being traded, which would shock me.
Vassell wouldnt surprise me either. Neither would Haliburton.
Would be surprised by almost everyone else.
Okoro cant shoot at all. Ball cant shoot at all. Toppin is too bad at defense and doesnt make sense trading Bogey for. Wiseman/Okongwu only make sense if Gobert is the one being traded, which would shock me.
Yeah, when Tony said that he said undersized PG, he was being asked bout dudes like Flynn. Hayes is a combo with size. Doesnt apply.