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For all the fire Ty people:

oldtimer said:
For the record the jazz are not firing corbin midseason. Not their style. After the season I believe the jazz will hire mike longabardi. Mike currently assists horny in phoenix but he has coached under tibs and rivers. He has excellent credentials but is not a former player and thus lacks name recognition.
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Never heard of him but I like those associations, tibs and rivers. Has he been a hc anywhere?
 
I'm being pushed onto the same side as franklin and One Brow? I may have to leave the internet forever over this.
 
One Brow said:
Which of the young players had zero game time over the previous two seasons?
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It's more than just minutes. It's when you get the minutes, who you play with, numerous factors play into this. You guys who make this argument have never played team basketball or I'm sure you wouldn't make this argument, so you have no experience from which to draw from, and that's the issue at hand, quality experience. You don't get that through insignificant amounts of meaningless minutes. You also try to put people in the right situations for them to succeed. This is what develops confidence in players, and Corbin has failed to do this.
 
Eenie-Meenie said:
You also try to put people in the right situations for them to succeed. This is what develops confidence in players, and Corbin has failed to do this.
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I think you could argue that this is one of Corbin's strengths, especially in light of how well these young guys have responded to increased roles. You don't want to give a player too much responsibility before he's ready because he effectively skips the steps along the way that will prepare him for success. Further, Ty has always made a point of playing the young guys together, and having the m play differently than the starters. That is, Gordo, Favors, Kanter, and Burks were given greater roles with players they'd be playing with in the future in lower leverage situations (off the bench). I liked that they brought Gordo off the bench for a while last season, and allowed him to play with the ball in his hands with Kanter and Favors.

I'll also ask a question I've asked before, which has always gone unanswered. Can anyone name a coach who played young, inexperienced players ahead of productive, prime-age players?

Was it ever reasonable to expect Ty to bench Al or Millsap? Was Burks really ever ready to handle more responsibility/minutes on the court?

While I thought some of Al's 1st-3rd quarter minutes should have been cut to get Kanter on the court more (with more responsibility) and save Al's energy to close games, I can understand why Corbin did what he did.
 
GVC said:
I think you could argue that this is one of Corbin's strengths, especially in light of how well these young guys have responded to increased roles. You don't want to give a player too much responsibility before he's ready because he effectively skips the steps along the way that will prepare him for success. Further, Ty has always made a point of playing the young guys together, and having the m play differently than the starters. That is, Gordo, Favors, Kanter, and Burks were given greater roles with players they'd be playing with in the future in lower leverage situations (off the bench). I liked that they brought Gordo off the bench for a while last season, and allowed him to play with the ball in his hands with Kanter and Favors.

I'll also ask a question I've asked before, which has always gone unanswered. Can anyone name a coach who played young, inexperienced players ahead of productive, prime-age players?

Was it ever reasonable to expect Ty to bench Al or Millsap? Was Burks really ever ready to handle more responsibility/minutes on the court?

While I thought some of Al's 1st-3rd quarter minutes should have been cut to get Kanter on the court more (with more responsibility) and save Al's energy to close games, I can understand why Corbin did what he did.
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I think it was reasonable to have Millsap as the 6th man or at least start/bench him depending on the matchup. Big Al is a starter, period. I think Burks was ready for more time then he got. Clearly not a starter or a 6th man but he needed more then he got on many nights.

I also understand what Corbin did. I just disagree with some of it.
 
GVC said:
I'll also ask a question I've asked before, which has always gone unanswered. Can anyone name a coach who played young, inexperienced players ahead of productive, prime-age players?
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Most of your post made a lot of sense but would just like to say that I don't consider roger braille, josh howard, or earl watson productive prime age players.
 
GVC said:
I think you could argue that this is one of Corbin's strengths, especially in light of how well these young guys have responded to increased roles. You don't want to give a player too much responsibility before he's ready because he effectively skips the steps along the way that will prepare him for success. Further, Ty has always made a point of playing the young guys together, and having the m play differently than the starters. That is, Gordo, Favors, Kanter, and Burks were given greater roles with players they'd be playing with in the future in lower leverage situations (off the bench). I liked that they brought Gordo off the bench for a while last season, and allowed him to play with the ball in his hands with Kanter and Favors.

I'll also ask a question I've asked before, which has always gone unanswered. Can anyone name a coach who played young, inexperienced players ahead of productive, prime-age players?

Was it ever reasonable to expect Ty to bench Al or Millsap? Was Burks really ever ready to handle more responsibility/minutes on the court?

While I thought some of Al's 1st-3rd quarter minutes should have been cut to get Kanter on the court more (with more responsibility) and save Al's energy to close games, I can understand why Corbin did what he did.
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Disagree. Look at all the DNPs Burks got last year after he showed in summer league that he was ready for minutes -- that destroys confidence. Look at how he held Favors back when he had games where he was clearly the best player on the team -- remember the playoffs vs. the Spurs -- and this has stunted his development. Hayward also was held back in favor of Foye and Marvin when Hayward was clearly the better player. And Kanter in my opinion was brought along too slowly but because of his strong personality, it hasn't hurt his development, but it has done so to Favors. Nope, Corbin has sucked at giving these guys the confidence to develop which is why they are all behind in their development.
 
GVC said:
None of those players were really blocking the young guys.
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I feel that they were blocking Burks. Hayward still got his time. I can see arguements being made for Tinsley and Howard palying but Bell was just horrendous. Never should have seen the court. Burks was far more deserving of that time then Bell.
 
Stoked said:
I feel that they were blocking Burks. Hayward still got his time.
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As a rookie, Burks played roughly the same minutes as Howard and more minutes than Raja. He wasn't noticeably better than either of those guys.
 
I need to look this up, but I don't believe Burks got more minutes than Raja. However, he did get a lot of DNPs at the beginning of last season, which were not good for his confidence. And everyone, even Harpring on the air, was complaining about Favors' lack of minutes last year. Hayward got minutes and probably was handled better than the others, but still I think he could've been brought along more quickly. What was Corbin thinking -- in any case, they blew their draft pick a couple of years ago, just to win a couple extra and get swept in the playoffs when the young guys could've been playing and developing and we could've gotten a draft choice that might've enabled us to get Lilliard. The handling of the team, especially with Corbin as the coach, has been very poor.
 
GVC said:
As a rookie, Burks played roughly the same minutes as Howard and more minutes than Raja. He wasn't noticeably better than either of those guys.
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Are you saying total minutes? If so that is just stupid since burks was the only healthy wing.

Raja, howard and cj were all injured.

I don't remember raja or howard getting any dnps until after thier injuries.

If there is one characteristic that I have learned about GVC, its that he is always right in his mind so this conversation is pointless.
 
GVC said:
As a rookie, Burks played roughly the same minutes as Howard and more minutes than Raja. He wasn't noticeably better than either of those guys.
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He was clearly better then Bell. Howard is debatable.
 
Stoked said:
He was clearly better then Bell. Howard is debatable.
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I remember someone posting some stats showing that braille was the worst player in the league or something. (Might have been worst sg or wing in the leaguel
 
fishonjazz said:
Are you saying total minutes? If so that is just stupid since burks was the only healthy wing.

Raja, howard and cj were all injured.

I don't remember raja or howard getting any dnps until after thier injuries.

If there is one characteristic that I have learned about GVC, its that he is always right in his mind so this conversation is pointless.
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Wasn't Raja told to stay home? CJ only missed 10 games. CJ and Howard were better options at that point, and, AGAIN, Alec was a rookie. Not playing a mediocre rookie over mediocre vets doesn't seem to be that big a deal.

Has Alec shown anything over the last year+ to show that he was ready for minutes then?

As for your last point, I've altered my opinions in the past when presented with good arguments. Read through this thread, and ask yourself if anyone is presenting any evidence to support their whining. Maybe provide some evidence that what you say is actually true, instead of making baseless assertions. meh...

I'm still waiting for an answer about coaches who've played young, inexperienced players over productive, in-prime vets (Kanter/Favors over Al/Millsap). Howard/CJ over Burks is pretty ****ing minor.
 
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