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foye's history at PG

T

theNBAnerd

Well-Known Member
i keep seeing foye listed at PG on people's depth charts, and conversations about trades often include tidbits offered up by posters who think foye helps us fill the void behind mo's 30 minutes per night. that didn't add up for me given what i've seen from foye in his career, so i took a look.

2011-12: according to 82games.com, foye played a total of 34 minutes at point guard last season. during those 34 minutes, the clippers' offensive production plummeted to 83 points per 100 possessions and the team was outscored by almost 20 pp48.

2010-11: that year he played 162 minutes at point (so not quite 2 minutes per game). his team produced 99.7 points per 100 possessions and was outscored by 7 pp48 with him at point. (it should be noted that most of his "PG" minutes this season were charted when he was playing with eric gordon, so it's not 100% clear who was the PG and who was the SG in some of those lineups.)

2009-10: the most point he has played in his entire career -- and it was for a horrible team. 1178 minutes at the PG (2/3 of his total minutes) with an offensive efficiency of 94.9 and outscored by 2.2 points on a per-48 basis.

2008-09: played about 40% of his minutes (987) at point, managed 95.7 on offensive efficiency, got outscored by almost 7 per 48 minutes.

2007-08: played most of his minutes (1037) at point. best season for offensive efficiency (99.8), still got outscored by 2.5 pp48.

2006-07: played just under half of his minutes (810) at point. offensive efficiency of 94.9 with him running the show and the team got outscored by 3.8 pp48.

my point here is that there isn't a lot of evidence to suggest foye can effectively run the point, which is probably why we has hardly played any in his last two seasons. he's never managed to eclipse the point-per-possession mark as a floor leader and his team has had a negative net-per-48 with him at point guard in every single season.

moral of the story: he's not a PG. he will help space the floor for the second unit with his shooting -- but he is not the right guy to run the offense for 18 minutes a not -- and if mo ever gets hurt, can you even imagine us relying on him for 25-30 minutes of production?
 
If mo or tinsley went down, I would assume foye and burks would split back up PG minutes. If it's for significant time, I'd assume DLindsey/KOC would be forced to bring in another PG to help. (Maybe in a BiGal trade?)
 
Vs. Old Man Watson & Old Man Tinsley? Yeah, Corbin should sit Foye over two guys old enough to be in historical documentaries.


Wes Mantooth said:
So the year he played the most at point, 2009-2010, his God awful Wizards team (4th worst record in the league) was only outscored by 2.2 points per 48. Sounds like he actually helped that squad play better as they were -5.5 per 48 as a team.
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Out of rep. Damn.
 
Wes Mantooth said:
So the year he played the most at point, 2009-2010, his God awful Wizards team (4th worst record in the league) was only outscored by 2.2 points per 48. Sounds like he actually helped that squad play better as they were -5.5 per 48 as a team.
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that was ONE year out of six. plus, their offensive efficiency that season was 94.9 pp100 with foye running the point. that would be good for 29th in the league last year. is that really what you aspire to??
 
I think the stats are clear here: we need to bring back Kirilenko. Can someone start a thread?
 
IMO you should focus more on how effective he is at guarding 1s vs 2s, and how he does in transition. This year's offense is not going to be dominated by outside ball handling.

Anyways I don't do stat geeking but appreciate you guys that do. Those 2 things are probably more relevant to his allotted court time than how good a traditional point he is.
 
theNBAnerd said:
that was ONE year out of six. plus, their offensive efficiency that season was 94.9 pp100 with foye running the point. that would be good for 29th in the league last year. is that really what you aspire to??
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Yes, and it's the one year he played 2/3 of his minutes at the point, ya know, the whole point of this thread. The fact is, when he got significant minutes at the point (that year) they were better with him on the floor than without and their complete ineptitude as a team does not solely lie with him as you seem to allude. Rather, they're void of talent and direction and have been for some time.
 
theNBAnerd said:
that was ONE year out of six. plus, their offensive efficiency that season was 94.9 pp100 with foye running the point. that would be good for 29th in the league last year. is that really what you aspire to??
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I appreciate you doing this kind of research. Can you take it one step further and tell us all what Watson and Tinsley's pp100 were? I think that is what we really need to compare this to.
 
Wes Mantooth said:
Yes, and it's the one year he played 2/3 of his minutes at the point, ya know, the whole point of this thread. The fact is, when he got significant minutes at the point (that year) they were better with him on the floor than without and their complete ineptitude as a team does not solely lie with him as you seem to allude. Rather, they're void of talent and direction and have been for some time.
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so while he was on one of the worst teams in the league, his team was slightly less crappy (still crappy, but a little bit less so) than when other guys were running the point.

that's definitely a point you want to hang your hat on, wes.
 
orangello said:
I appreciate you doing this kind of research. Can you take it one step further and tell us all what Watson and Tinsley's pp100 were? I think that is what we really need to compare this to.
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Looks like Watson's is 103.7
Tinsley is 107.8

Watson's net is -0.5
Tinsley's net -3.2
 
orangello said:
I appreciate you doing this kind of research. Can you take it one step further and tell us all what Watson and Tinsley's pp100 were? I think that is what we really need to compare this to.
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i get your point, and i don't think earl (92.7) or tinsley (99.7) are ideal solutions either. but i don't think that should make us feel any better about the fact that foye has no real history of being able to run an efficient offense that produces a point per possession. if mo gets hurt, we're going to be relying on three guys who can't allow us to crack the top 20 in team efficiency rating. that's scary.
 
theNBAnerd said:
so while he was on one of the worst teams in the league, his team was slightly less crappy (still crappy, but a little bit less so) than when other guys were running the point.

that's definitely a point you want to hang your hat on, wes.
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slightly less crappy? there's a huge difference between a 2.2 point and 5.5 point differential you moran. if you don't like that fact, then don't start the thread and use statistics based around such to begin with. keep spewing out dog**** though.
 
I suspect Foye is here as more of a shooter. It's really all about player combos anyway. He is a far better defender than either Watson or Tinsley. Just an example, but if Hayward and Burks are on the floor with Foye, we might still be able to distribute the ball effectively, w/o a "true" PG. Certainly the defense would be better than if Tinsley or Watson were on the floor instead of Foye...
 
The personnel combinations we have on this roster (with no true PG) don't present a problem for Lindsay to build around. He just came from SAS, where there isn't a PG either (since Parker is nothing but north-to-south) and where Manu has had significant playmaking duties (ahem, Burks and Hayward).

I don't see a problem with Foye playing the 1 as long as he can guard the 1.
 
Wes Mantooth said:
slightly less crappy? there's a huge difference between a 2.2 point and 5.5 point differential you moran. if you don't like that fact, then don't start the thread and use statistics based around such to begin with. keep spewing out dog**** though.
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nice to see the name-calling start so early in the thread. are you randy foye's cousin, or just incapable of articulating your side of the argument without belittling the other person? either way, i'll try to be less or a moran for you.

by "slightly less crappy" i mean that his team was still getting beat with him running the point. so they were only getting beat by 2.2 points instead by 5.5 points. big whoop, he's still a losing point guard.

the guy's value is as a shooter. let's not expect guys to magically develop an extra component to their game just because it's summer and it's easy to imagine things that aren't there.
 
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