Free Agent Rumors Thread

[GVC]

Not sure I want Hayward to be offered 5 years. Each team can only have one 5-yr player. Well, technically they can have two, but the other has to be acquired via trade. Better to match a 4-yr deal for Gordon and keep the 5-yr slot open.

That's not correct. Teams can extend one of their rookies for 5 years. If Gordo signs, it will be as a free agent, not as an extended rookie deal.

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

How so? Lance can defend the 3 better than Gordo. If the Jazz can sign Lance outright, and use Gordo+ in a S&T to upgrade elsewhere, it's a no-brainer IMO.

Also, I think the Lance=headcase stuff is a bit overblown. First, when the Pacers went into a tailspin, winning only 10 of their final 23 games, Roy Hibbert and Paul George, the team's two max all-stars, played like absolute ****. Lance may not have directed his frustration appropriately, but he continued to compete and play fairly well. Second, the Jazz need talent. Good players and coaches figure out how to use good talent. The 3 primary needs of basketball teams are scoring/creating, shooting/floor spacing, and defending. I'm not sure Gordo does any of those things better than Lance.

Do we have data on how Lance did defending the small forward position?

 

[Stifle Tower]

That's not correct. Teams can extend one of their rookies for 5 years. If Gordo signs, it will be as a free agent, not as an extended rookie deal.

I stand corrected. I misinterpreted the CBA in that respect. Thanks as usual for providing the correct info; you are always right on top of things.
If this is the case, I see really no advantage to extending a rookie, but I'm probably missing something. Why not just have him play out his contract, become a RFA and then sign him to a 5-yr deal?

 

[GVC]

Do we have data on how Lance did defending the small forward position?

Not really, at least not if you think 82games has their minutes-by-position numbers right. With that said, Lance is stronger than he is quick, which makes him better suited to defend the 3 (all else equal). He also has a larger wingspan and equal standing reach to Gordo. His overall defensive numbers from synergysports are also better than Gordo's (although he was surrounded by better defenders on average).

At the same dollar figure, I don't think it's an absolutely obvious choice. At $2-6mil less per year, I take Lance over Gordo.

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

Not really, at least not if you think 82games has their minutes-by-position numbers right. With that said, Lance is stronger than he is quick, which makes him better suited to defend the 3 (all else equal). He also has a larger wingspan and equal standing reach to Gordo. His overall defensive numbers from synergysports are also better than Gordo's (although he was surrounded by better defenders on average).

At the same dollar figure, I don't think it's an absolutely obvious choice. At $2-6mil less per year, I take Lance over Gordo.

I hear you on the standing reach but i just can't fathom marching out a 6'5" small forward. i'd like to see lance's stats (plus minus?) while defending small forwards.

 

[GVC]

I stand corrected. I misinterpreted the CBA in that respect. Thanks as usual for providing the correct info; you are always right on top of things.
If this is the case, I see really no advantage to extending a rookie, but I'm probably missing something. Why not just have him play out his contract, become a RFA and then sign him to a 5-yr deal?

On a max deal, I agree in principle, although relationships with agents probably matter. For players who won't get max deals, it may be in the interest of both parties to get a deal done sooner. The player reduces risk, in case of injury or poor performance. The team might be able to get the player on a better deal than they would once the player hits free agency (risk reduction for the team and/or getting a discount through the player's aversion to risk). And, again, relationships with agents.

 

[GVC]

I hear you on the standing reach but i just can't fathom marching out a 6'5" small forward. i'd like to see lance's stats (plus minus?) while defending small forwards.

Is he going to defend with the top of his head? Aren't reach/wingspan better measures for wing defenders?

Unfortunately, I don't know of any +/- by position stats. 82games.com has Lance playing 5% of Indiana's SF minutes on the season. His SF opponents shot .435 eFG%, which is poor.

 

[Stifle Tower]

On a max deal, I agree in principle, although relationships with agents probably matter. For players who won't get max deals, it may be in the interest of both parties to get a deal done sooner. The player reduces risk, in case of injury or poor performance. The team might be able to get the player on a better deal than they would once the player hits free agency (risk reduction for the team and/or getting a discount through the player's aversion to risk). And, again, relationships with agents.

You have a point. Goodwill in terms of dealing with the agents and players. And maybe the team can get a player to take a bit less because he gets a signed deal in hand one year sooner. Also, he doesn't have the pressure to put up big numbers in a "contract year" so his play might be a little more unselfish. Favors may/may not have gotten more than $12M/per in the free agent market right now. He was only given a 4-yr deal, though.

 

[cowhide]

The average annual salary in a 4-year max (other team) contract for Hayward is about $16mm. Do you really think Hayward is worth $7mm+ per year more than Lance? I'd rather have Lance at 9 than Hayward at 16. Hell, I'd rather have Lance at 9 than Hayward at 12 for the physical/defensive upgrade alone.

No I don't think Hayward is worth that much more but there is no way I want Stephenson on the Jazz for any price. The dude is a knucklehead. Did you not watch the playoffs vs Miami? Besides Stephenson wants more than $9 million a year. He turned down the Indy offer. No one in the league is going to pay him more because the kid can't act like a professional. We don't want him mucking up the locker room or going one on one instead of running the offense.

I agree Hayward is not even close to being worth $16 million a year.

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

Is he going to defend with the top of his head? Aren't reach/wingspan better measures for wing defenders?

Unfortunately, I don't know of any +/- by position stats. 82games.com has Lance playing 5% of Indiana's SF minutes on the season. His SF opponents shot .435 eFG%, which is poor.

How did he shoot against sf's?

And no, but we need to take measurements with a grain of salt.

 

[GVC]

The dude is a knucklehead. Did you not watch the playoffs vs Miami?

He blew in LeBron's ear. So what? He had a pretty good series, and his coach had him guard LeBron, rather than use Paul George, a player widely considered a top-5 perimeter defender.

We don't want him mucking up the locker room or going one on one instead of running the offense.

1. The Jazz rarely have the opportunity to sign quality/talented free agents at a discount price. The Jazz lack talent, Lance has talent and may be available at a decent (movable) price. If this team is ever going to truly contend again, they'll have to take some risks. I think this is the sort of risk they should be taking.

2. Here's the list of non-point guards who played 1000+ minutes and averaged at least 0.4 assists for every field goal attempt this past season:

Joakim Noah
Nic Batum
Tyreke Evans
Lance Stephenson
Josh McRoberts
Manu Ginobili
Andre Iguodala
Gerald Wallace
Nick Collison

Dude's not a chucker. Even on an offensively challenged team, he was fairly selective.

 

[GVC]

How did he shoot against sf's?

And no, but we need to take measurements with a grain of salt.

1. He shot poorly in the minutes he played at the 3, although, again, minutes. The point is, he can defend the 3. I don't see why Gordo should have a positional advantage over Lance at the 3.

2. What the hell does that last sentence mean? Do you think Gordo's longer than Lance? Do you actually think he's stronger? What makes you think Gordo's more of a 3 than Lance other than his height? Why is that a better measure than length/strength?

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

1. He shot poorly in the minutes he played at the 3, although, again, minutes. The point is, he can defend the 3. I don't see why Gordo should have a positional advantage over Lance at the 3.

2. What the hell does that last sentence mean? Do you think Gordo's longer than Lance? Do you actually think he's stronger? What makes you think Gordo's more of a 3 than Lance other than his height? Why is that a better measure than length/strength?

Relax. I'm simply saying that because he measured as long as Gordo if not a tiny bit longer, that we shouldn't fully expect that to equate into him playing as long or longer. He may, he may not. It's good to know and it's one piece of information to consider but using that alone is not an exact science.

 

[GVC]

Relax. I'm simply saying that because he measured as long as Gordo if not a tiny bit longer, that we shouldn't fully expect that to equate into him playing as long or longer. He may, he may not. It's good to know and it's one piece of information to consider but using that alone is not an exact science.

I'm plenty relaxed, I just wasn't sure what your argument was. Do you think Gordo is a better defender at the 3? If so, why? Do you think, all else equal (length, strength, quickness, etc.), height makes any difference on defense (or offense)?

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

I'm plenty relaxed, I just wasn't sure what your argument was. Do you think Gordo is a better defender at the 3? If so, why? Do you think, all else equal (length, strength, quickness, etc.), height makes any difference on defense (or offense)?

To be honest, I don't know. But I've seen enough of both to know Lance is quicker, stronger, and fiercer. That's why I love the guy. He's a little pit bull. Gordo's soft.

Height shouldn't make any difference but who knows. If Durant sees 6'5" Lance on him, maybe he's simply not intimidated at all and psychologically feels more confident and he executes better because of it. Maybe not.

TBH though, as much as I love him, I am not thrilled with the idea of having Lance on the floor playing the 3 on the offensive end and getting smothered.

At this point in time I'd pass, unless we could somehow get him for something like 6M per.

 

[GVC]

At this point in time I'd pass, unless we could somehow get him for something like 6M per.

How high would you go matching a Gordo offer sheet?

 

[Doublea]

@WojYahooNBA: Utah RFA Gordon Hayward is meeting with Cavaliers officials in Cleveland today, sources tell Yahoo. Offer sheet could be forthcoming.

I'm going to be so mad if they offer him some rediciolous offer.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Lance is a horrible fit. He has had off the court issues as well as the knucklehead stuff during the playoffs. He is part of the reason that team derailed. You don't give guys like Lance big long contracts and hope they stay out of trouble.

Its not just one thing with Lance. He's similar to JR Smith in that his garbage (not just the cute stuff like blowing in Lebron's ear) wears on teammates. He has also been babysat by Larry Bird the last few years. I don't see the Jazz being willing to commit the time and energy to that effort.

I'd rather get Tyreke from NOLA than pursue Lance if we want to go the small-small forward route.

 

[Doublea]

@WindhorstESPN: Cavs believed to be preparing a max offer sheet for restricted free agent Gordon Hayward, sources said. Yahoo reported he is visiting today

MFs

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

@WojYahooNBA: Utah RFA Gordon Hayward is meeting with Cavaliers officials in Cleveland today, sources tell Yahoo. Offer sheet could be forthcoming.

I'm going to be so mad if they offer him some rediciolous offer.

It's Cleveland... it took them forever to get the #1 pick in. It will likely take them until Christmas to hash out an offer sheet.

In all seriousness... I think Cleveland is one place that players would say they'd rather go to Utah. I was worried he'd go to Phoenix and get an offer that we'd match and he'd be bummed. He's signing that Cleveland agreement praying the Jazz match.