Fun info from tonight's jazz practice

[fishonjazz]

Just heard on 1280 that hayward was at the bottom of league as when it comes to turnovers in the pick and roll. (In other words he turns it over alot in pick n roll situations)

 

[b_line]

Well his as his 3 pt attempts have gone up, so has his percentage so far. But whatever, you will see what ya want

Hayward still shot exactly double the number of three point attempts per game.

 

[fishonjazz]

Hayward still shot exactly double the number of three point attempts per game.

Dont really get your point.

I assume you are saying that if burks attempted more 3's that his percentage would go down.

In fact, as his attempts have went up his percentage has as well.

Furthermore, if hayward is shooting 30% from three then dont you think he should take less of them and go to the hoop (and free throw line) more like burks?

 

[[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]]

Just heard on 1280 that hayward was at the bottom of league as when it comes to turnovers in the pick and roll. (In other words he turns it over alot in pick n roll situations)

He needs to play off-ball.

$15mm, braughs.

 

[b_line]

Dont really get your point.

I assume you are saying that if burks attempted more 3's that his percentage would go down.

In fact, as his attempts have went up his percentage has as well.

Furthermore, if hayward is shooting 30% from three then dont you think he should take less of them and go to the hoop (and free throw line) more like burks?

Hayward has made a career as a shooter. He had a bad year last year, and a big part of that was that the team had absolutely zero spacing. For his career, he is a better three point shooter than Burks.

Burks is improving, but his game right now is driving. If Burks continues to improve his shot, then that is awesome. To say that he is a better shooter than Hayward is disingenuous. He shoots a higher percentage because his place in the offense is to drive. Hayward was expected to facilitate and shoot jump shots in the offense.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

From what another poster said.... haywards shooting has got worse every year in the league.

Burks seems to be improving as the years go on and he gets more playing time.

Not sure if any of that matters to anyone but its interesting to me


48%
45%
43%
41%
Gordons shooting percentage by year

I find it interesting and not comforting. Isn't that how it went for Miles when he was here?

 

[fishonjazz]

What do you think of this part of my post?

if hayward is shooting 30% from three then dont you think he should take less of them and go to the hoop (and free throw line) more like burks?

 

[fishonjazz]

Alec burks shooting percentages for his career: rookie year 42%
2nd year 42%
3rd year 45%


Hayward: rookie year 48%
2nd year 45%
3rd year 43%
4th year 41%


Burks free throw percentage last year was the highest of his career

Haywards free throw percentage was the worst of his last three years

Burks 3pt% has gone up since he came into the league

Haywards is at the lowest its ever been. (He got to 30% in the last game of the year or it would have been in the 20's)


Maybe hayward is the better player today (i disagree but its debateable) but if the trends continue then burks will pass him soon

 

[b_line]

What do you think of this part of my post?

I absolutely think so, but Hayward has a coach too, and that coach sucked last year. I think there are a few reasons for Hayward's shooting slump:

1. He was asked to lead a really terrible team, and do a lot of the scoring. He is young, and young players struggle the first time they are asked to be the man.
2. The offense sucked, and Corbin stuck with it the majority of the season. Hayward would get plays called for him to shoot a three or a mid range jumper, and he is not supposed to break the offense.
3. He is a bit of a head case, and seems to struggle when there is uncertainty in his life, no extension was probably not the best thing for his game.

But yes, if Hayward had a post game or a driving game, he would be a much better offensive player. I have watched a bunch of highlights of him posting up smaller wings, so I know he has the ability to post up, but I think Corbin was terrible at coaching to players strengths, and to a larger extent, the strengths of the team.

Hayward was not horrible at getting to the line though. He shot 4.9 free throws per 36 minutes, and Burks shot 6.4 per 36. Considering the difference in their games, that is a pretty good rate for Hayward to get to the line.

 

[fishonjazz]

I absolutely think so, but Hayward has a coach too, and that coach sucked last year. I think there are a few reasons for Hayward's shooting slump:

1. He was asked to lead a really terrible team, and do a lot of the scoring. He is young, and young players struggle the first time they are asked to be the man.
2. The offense sucked, and Corbin stuck with it the majority of the season. Hayward would get plays called for him to shoot a three or a mid range jumper, and he is not supposed to break the offense.
3. He is a bit of a head case, and seems to struggle when there is uncertainty in his life, no extension was probably not the best thing for his game.

But yes, if Hayward had a post game or a driving game, he would be a much better offensive player. I have watched a bunch of highlights of him posting up smaller wings, so I know he has the ability to post up, but I think Corbin was terrible at coaching to players strengths, and to a larger extent, the strengths of the team.

Hayward was not horrible at getting to the line though. He shot 4.9 free throws per 36 minutes, and Burks shot 6.4 per 36. Considering the difference in their games, that is a pretty good rate for Hayward to get to the line.

Good post..... if i didnt know how you felt about hayward and hadnt watched him play and just went off this post then i would think that maybe he could be a decent player.

Not a max player doe..... no matter how much under the cap we are

 

[b_line]

Good post..... if i didnt know how you felt about hayward and hadnt watched him play and just went off this post then i would think that maybe he could be a decent player.

Not a max player doe..... no matter how much under the cap we are

I am trying to convince myself that matching the max contract is an ok thing to do, but I am just on the fence about it.

On the one hand, he is a great all around player, and adds a lot to good to great teams. But right now, the Jazz suck, so it is hard to tell how much he is actually worth when Corbin was the coach.

The other thing is that the market is inflated this year because so many teams have cap space, and there are so few high level free agents that will go to rebuilding teams. It's a crappy situation.

I really like Hayward though, and I think he is a big piece of the future for the Jazz. I would like him a lot more at 11 million per year though.

 

[BENTLEY]

Does Charlotte have anything we want to trade Hayward for?

 

[Stifle Tower]

Does Charlotte have anything we want to trade Hayward for?

Hornets?
And a couple of bobcats for the Hoogle Zoo?

 

[The Midnight]

Does Charlotte have anything we want to trade Hayward for?

Vonleh.

 

[cowhide]

I absolutely think so, but Hayward has a coach too, and that coach sucked last year. I think there are a few reasons for Hayward's shooting slump:

1. He was asked to lead a really terrible team, and do a lot of the scoring. He is young, and young players struggle the first time they are asked to be the man.
2. The offense sucked, and Corbin stuck with it the majority of the season. Hayward would get plays called for him to shoot a three or a mid range jumper, and he is not supposed to break the offense.
3. He is a bit of a head case, and seems to struggle when there is uncertainty in his life, no extension was probably not the best thing for his game.

But yes, if Hayward had a post game or a driving game, he would be a much better offensive player. I have watched a bunch of highlights of him posting up smaller wings, so I know he has the ability to post up, but I think Corbin was terrible at coaching to players strengths, and to a larger extent, the strengths of the team.

Hayward was not horrible at getting to the line though. He shot 4.9 free throws per 36 minutes, and Burks shot 6.4 per 36. Considering the difference in their games, that is a pretty good rate for Hayward to get to the line.

Burks had the same coach. A coach who played mind games with him the first couple years. Yet his stats have improved. You can't use the coach excuse as your primary argument.

 

[just because]

Burks>Hayward

Really?!? Please explain. Burks can get his own shot driving to the rim better than Hayward. Other than that it's not even close. Defending, rebounding, using the screener correctly, getting shots for teammates, running an offense, ball handling and the list goes on.

I am all for extending burks. He is awesome at what he does but let's stop with the apples and oranges discussions. It's really getting old!

 

[fishonjazz]

Other than that it's not even close. rebounding, using the screener correctly, ball handling

Lol

 

[fishonjazz]

Really?!? Please explain. Burks can get his own shot driving to the rim better than Hayward. Other than that it's not even close. Defending, rebounding, using the screener correctly, getting shots for teammates, running an offense, ball handling and the list goes on.

I am all for extending burks. He is awesome at what he does but let's stop with the apples and oranges discussions. It's really getting old!

Also, hayward has played alot more minutes, has an extra year in the league, was loved by his coach, and is 2 years older.
So you are right about the apples to oranges comment