Game 2: The Redemption: Utah Jazz @ Denver Nuggets (12/28/11, 7pm MST)

[freakazoid]

It seems like this will be a common theme most games:

1. Play it close and look good the 1st quarter
2. Offense implodes, causing the defense to implode from frustration from the offense
3. Continue to suck
4. 4th quarter starts, other team has stopped playing as hard. Quick pad stats so it looks like the people who played in the 4th quarter are better than those who didn't.

Corbin didn't learn a thing from Jerry last year.

He needs to have the team get blown out by 20 in the first quarter. Then just wait for the other team to relax, and then mount the comeback. Stupid rookie coach knows nothing about strategy.

 

[trigg3r]

This is a game to especially look at rebounds (10 RBs and +5 plus-minus in 16 minutes for Favors vs. a measly 5 RBs and -21 +/- in 30 minutes for AJ), assists (2 assists and -13 for Harris in 21 minutes vs. 4 assists for Tinsley and +7 in 10 minutes of mostly garbage play), and maybe blocks and steals.

Conclusions:
1. Jefferson STILL doesn't deserve 30 minutes, AGAIN, while Favors and others deserve more. (Favors didn't score much, but he was providing much-needed rebounding).
2. There is at least one option--maybe two or three--that are superior to Harris at PG.

I disagree. AJ needs that 30+ minutes to keep his stock up. He needs to hit numbers comparable to last season so that we can get something for him in a trade.

 

[billyshelby]

In two games, we've run P&R like 4 times. That's not even an exaggeration. We literally do not run the P&R as part of our offense. I'm really blown away by this, because the talent we have is much more suited to P&R than all these screens and curls.

 

[billyshelby]

The film session on mistakes made during transition needs to be very long. It would be great if the only problem was hustle. But we're not playing with a concept. As Harp pointed out, the fundamental rule is stop the ball. We also have guys trying to to find "their" man, and several times there was a 3 on 2 and the guys defending aren't taking zones. It's ugly.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Well, the first 2 games have shown some promising moments from the young guys, but they're still a ways off from competing. Guess all the "experts" were right and us uptimists are too far ahead of ourselves. I wonder if Ty has been told to play the vets for possible trades. Maybe KOC can get 2nd rounders for Bell and Howard. Perhaps a late 1st for Harris. Maybe the same for CJ (as an expiring or extra shooter for a playoff team). Big Al looks like he can average 18/8. That should draw some interest.

There are only six guys on the roster worth keeping: Millsap, Favors, Kanter, Hayward and Burks. And add in Evans because he's a great guy and I love to see at least 1 dunk/game. The rest need to be replaced via draft picks or trades. I knew it would be a long season; let's just hope the terrible play inspires Greg and Kevin to actually use the TPE to bring in a starting wing or replacement for Harris.

 

[billyshelby]

Best moment of the night: 4th Quarter, Burks has just scored like 8 points on nifty takes to the hoop, and gets burned on an alley-oop. Harp chimes in with: "See? People say start Burks, Burks needs minutes, but he's not ready yet." Burks scores 4 seconds later.

But what kills me is I don't care how many mistakes Burks makes. It's not remotely possible he could be worse than Bell.

 

[billyshelby]

Speaking of Bell, I seriously wonder how long it will take before Ty realizes Bell has to draw DNP's. Any combo of Hayward/CJ/Burks/Howard in the starting lineup would make us instantly better. Then incorporate more P&R with those guys and we'll actually look like a real NBA offense. Right now, we look like a 60's NBA team.

 

[Sneakers]

That's an interesting way to characterize the first five minutes of the first quarter and the first nine minutes of the third quarter, with Favors starting alongside the rest of the starting lineup. Then again, maybe it's appropriate to regard Corbin's starters as "garbage."

And no, most of Favors' rebounds were not in the THREE or FOUR MINUTES of garbage time that he played, and even when you take out Favors' true garbage time minutes and rebounds, he still pulled down 6 rebounds in about 13 minutes--a higher productivity on both an absolute basis and frequency basis than Slow Al (not to be confused with Slowkur).

If you take out DF's +/- in garbage time, Favors ends up with zero or better, vs. AJ's embarrassing (and team-"leading") minus 21, implying that the Jazz were outscored by around 21 when AJ was on the court and his crucial sidekick Favors was not. (Was Millsap effective alongside Jefferson without Favors? Not by a longshot, as far as this game went. Why not? Because Millsap and Jefferson are not centers and should spend most of their court time alongside Favors or Kanter.)

In other words, my claim on +/- stands in this regard. But thanks for playing, Lance. A big reason why Corbin (like his predecessor) isn't succeeding might be his poor analysis of lineups. Kind of like your post.

Angry.

Jazz defense was terrible. Favors wasn't making any noticeable difference, though AJ was probably the most terrible. I'm pro Favors. I'm pro youth movement. But I think its dumb to pretend our young guys are playing amazing and just being held down by the man. Now I'm not saying PT is being handled correctly either.

DF +/- was good because he was on the bench (due to fouls) when Denver broke it open in the 2nd. I'm sorry, but there is nothing to indicate that Favors meer presence on the floor would be enough to counteract the sloppy passes, transition buckets, and stagnant offense for the jazz which led to the 17 point lead.

And I'm more than fair when someone has a good game or a non-impactful game. Favors usually seems more impact-ful. Not in this game. It's just being honest.

 

[billyshelby]

Anyone realize it was a 5 point game with 6 minutes to go in the second? Then we put Bell back in. For some unfathomable reason, Ty thought he HAD to matchup with Andre Miller (uh, LOTS of guys can cover Andre Miller). Anyway, not only could Bell not guard Miller, but he had to pick up his 3rd foul before Ty took him out.

Still scratching my head trying to figure out why Ty played Kanter and Favors together instead of bringing in Millsap when Al had his cramp in the late 3rd. That was our last shot to make a run and it was insane watching offensive sets whether neither big was a threat to score.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Hayward is the closest thing this team has to a PG.

 

[GVC]

Just finished watching the game and reading the game thread. My notes:

Raja Bell: Seriously, what the ****?

Al Jefferson: Made more of an effort to pass and play some help D (and hit some shots). The next time I see him run the court will be the first. While it would be nice to see the Jazz run sometimes, it can't possibly happen with Harris/Raja/Jefferson in the starting lineup.

Gordon Hayward: Tough watching him "guard" Gallinari. Ty has to step in and move him to the 2, since he seems to be the Jazz's best option distributing and shooting from distance, and thus needs to stay on the court.

Paul Millsap: Started out real nice, but got lazy in the second half while pretending to guard Al Harrington.

Derrick Favors: Needs to be out there for defense. Needs some touches to stay motivated. Body language a bit of a concern already.

Enes Kanter: Used his body better than in game 1, and got some good shots for himself. Once (if) he loosens up a bit, those shots should fall. Runs the floor well, plays tough D, rebounds.

CJ: I was steaming when he first checked in, but his play steadily improved this game. Raja/CJ at the 2 isn't going to cut it though. I really hope Ty tries Millsap at the 3 a little, moves Hayward to the 2, and gives Burks a few more minutes. Can it be any worse than what we've seen these two games?

Harris: Isn't this guy supposed to be quick? He looks like the slowest guard on the team.

Burks: Curious if he'd chuck so much playing in non-garbage minutes. Hopefully he gets an opportunity to play some minutes earlier in the game so he can learn to play some team ball. Some bad habits are hard to break. Dude has some tools, but using him like this will ruin any potential he has.

 

[InGameStrategy]

Angry.

Jazz defense was terrible. Favors wasn't making any noticeable difference, though AJ was probably the most terrible. I'm pro Favors. I'm pro youth movement. But I think its dumb to pretend our young guys are playing amazing and just being held down by the man. Now I'm not saying PT is being handled correctly either.

DF +/- was good because he was on the bench (due to fouls) when Denver broke it open in the 2nd. I'm sorry, but there is nothing to indicate that Favors meer presence on the floor would be enough to counteract the sloppy passes, transition buckets, and stagnant offense for the jazz which led to the 17 point lead.

And I'm more than fair when someone has a good game or a non-impactful game. Favors usually seems more impact-ful. Not in this game. It's just being honest.

Your prior post was inaccurate on (at least) two fundamental fronts: Favors' (non-garbage) rebounding and Favors' (non-garbage) +/-. So I called you out. Sorry if it was harsh; it struck a chord in me because it appears that this team would be so much better if some serious analysis had been applied to the coaching in years' past as well as now.

I, too, do not think that Favors is a savior (yet). But DF getting <20 MPG and Big Al averaging close 30 min is a gross ignorance on Corbin's part of the relative contribution of these players. AJ was far from deserving of such quantity of PT; he was sucking on both ends of the court vs. the Fakers, and he only modestly improved for this one. Five rebounds over 30 minutes for a "cornerstone" PF/C is rather pathetic. (Consolation: At least the "centers" are getting a minimal amount of development time (i.e., >10 MPG or so).

Even in the Laker game, when Favors picked up quick fouls, there was no reason to keep DF on the bench. The best thing for his experience would've been to put him back out there and learn either how to be aggressive despite foul trouble or to try to play effectively while in foul trouble. Corbin missed opportunities to provide Favors either one (not to mention giving Kanter more burn), and Jefferson didn't merit the minutes he got.

I simply don't buy the compulsion to play AJ for x minimum minutes (25? 30? More?) simply to prop him up for a trade. If he played 20 effective minutes vs. 30 crappy ones, he'd still be more attractive both to keep and to use as a core trade piece. But like Sloan, Corbin has been taking a partially blind eye to AJ's subpar play, and both ignored the notion that playing two PFs together (PM and AJ) doesn't work a lot. A likely superior rotation would've been to pair Millsap or Big Al with the Jazz's "centers" (Favors or Kanter), who would favor rebounding while the "forward" focused on scoring (and of course do some rebounding themselves).

 

[bjunior]

I watch at Frank Vogel in Indiana, at Mark Jackson (GS). They are rookie coaches too, but at this moment there is a huge hole between our and there game.

Look at Indiana - there game if fun to watch. No doubt they will make the playoffs.
GS win NY without Curry. Win CHI at home.

Can we do it? No.

We have the players to play a lot better than we do. Maybe not W games but to show a lot better play. Ty Corbin just can't do it.

 

[udflyer]

Just finished watching the game and reading the game thread. My notes:

Raja Bell: Seriously, what the ****?
Agreed, he seems checked out

Al Jefferson: Made more of an effort to pass and play some help D (and hit some shots). The next time I see him run the court will be the first. While it would be nice to see the Jazz run sometimes, it can't possibly happen with Harris/Raja/Jefferson in the starting lineup.

Gordon Hayward: Tough watching him "guard" Gallinari. Ty has to step in and move him to the 2, since he seems to be the Jazz's best option distributing and shooting from distance, and thus needs to stay on the court.
Definitely Agree. Hayward I think has great potential at the 2, play 3 in a pinch.

Paul Millsap: Started out real nice, but got lazy in the second half while pretending to guard Al Harrington.

Derrick Favors: Needs to be out there for defense. Needs some touches to stay motivated. Body language a bit of a concern already.

Enes Kanter: Used his body better than in game 1, and got some good shots for himself. Once (if) he loosens up a bit, those shots should fall. Runs the floor well, plays tough D, rebounds.

CJ: I was steaming when he first checked in, but his play steadily improved this game. Raja/CJ at the 2 isn't going to cut it though. I really hope Ty tries Millsap at the 3 a little, moves Hayward to the 2, and gives Burks a few more minutes. Can it be any worse than what we've seen these two games?

Harris: Isn't this guy supposed to be quick? He looks like the slowest guard on the team.

Burks: Curious if he'd chuck so much playing in non-garbage minutes. Hopefully he gets an opportunity to play some minutes earlier in the game so he can learn to play some team ball. Some bad habits are hard to break. Dude has some tools, but using him like this will ruin any potential he has.

He also had about 7 fouls not called in garbage time because it was garbage time. After the game he said the game slowed down for him already. 2 games into the season in garbage time...really.

 

[cowhide]

Ty Corbin is humiliating the entire Jazz franchise and it's proud fan base. He needs to go immediately!

Also, when any of my detractors from the preseason who opposed my anti-Ty stance and hopes Raja Bell blew out both knees so he wouldn't be part of our rotation whatsoever care to retract their original statements and bow at my e-feet - just let me know. Numberica, Darkmeat Duck, LogGrad98, PKM and the majority of the jazzfanz forum sans my ***** Moe, Aintnuthin and a few others - that means you.

Go Jazz!!

What happened to you Chitownjazz. You use to be one of the more reasonable posters. I still wouldn't want any Jazz player to get hurt so they don't play. What most people want is for Bell to either be traded or benched. That is what many people want. So before anyone bows down to you perhaps you should rewrite your message in a more grown up way.

 

[bordelais7]

Best moment of the night: 4th Quarter, Burks has just scored like 8 points on nifty takes to the hoop, and gets burned on an alley-oop. Harp chimes in with: "See? People say start Burks, Burks needs minutes, but he's not ready yet." Burks scores 4 seconds later.

But what kills me is I don't care how many mistakes Burks makes. It's not remotely possible he could be worse than Bell.

I loved that, too. One of the 38 or so alley-oops that the Jazz gave up last night.

 

[Stoked]

It is impossible for Burks to be worse than Bell. How you ask? Well Burks can actually put the ball in the hoop.

To prove my point... Burks scored more last night (15 points) than Bell has scored in the last 4 games combined (14 points)

 

[mtnbayou]

Still scratching my head trying to figure out why Ty played Kanter and Favors together instead of bringing in Millsap when Al had his cramp in the late 3rd. That was our last shot to make a run and it was insane watching offensive sets whether neither big was a threat to score.

When I saw this happen, i wondered if we were already trying to tank the season.

 

[Stoked]

When I saw this happen, i wondered if we were already trying to tank the season.

To be honest with you all. If the vets are going to play like they have then I would rather see more of Favors and Kanter together. Only vet playing worth a damn is Millsap.