Game #4 - Utah Jazz @ Memphis Grizzlies

[billyshelby]

By contrast, look at Memphis. They don't have a complicated offense to figure out. They run everything through the bigs. But when they do, their wings cut to the basket. I don't think I saw the Jazz cut to the basket 5 times tonight. Alternately, they drive pretty relentlessly because their other theory is the bigs will clean up misses. The irony is we could do this as well as they do. But Ty doesn't know what he wants to run, and seems content to let Mo, who has very average point guard skills, make a lot of stuff up as if he's some kind of elite talent.

 

[Dr. Jones]

?

Get with the ****ing program mang, answer is yes. PM me.

 

[Dr. Jones]

By contrast, look at Memphis. They don't have a complicated offense to figure out. They run everything through the bigs. But when they do, their wings cut to the basket. I don't think I saw the Jazz cut to the basket 5 times tonight. Alternately, they drive pretty relentlessly because their other theory is the bigs will clean up misses. The irony is we could do this as well as they do. But Ty doesn't know what he wants to run, and seems content to let Mo, who has very average point guard skills, make a lot of stuff up as if he's some kind of elite talent.

Assist to the choir .. no coaching.

 

[billyshelby]

The second unit makes me cringe. That's when the break, which makes our first unit offensive numbers look much better, doesn't work. They have no idea who's going to score or how.

 

[Dr. Jones]

The second unit makes me cringe. That's when the break, which makes our first unit offensive numbers look much better, doesn't work. They have no idea who's going to score or how.

Srsly, break it down further.

 

[billyshelby]

As another note, did anyone notice in the Spurs game how they always, by design, have one wing crashing the basket when Duncan or Diaw is fishing around for a shot in the post? They either get the pass or they're on top of the glass. When was the last time you can remember a Jazz wing slashing to the basket when one of our bigs had the ball? Or, more importantly, that there was a design to have the big time his move or make the pass when that happened? That's coaching.

 

[Sneakers]

I love having must win games the 5th game of the season against the Lakers.

If we weren't playing the Lakers next I would suggest starting Foye and Hayward with Marvin 6th manning it

 

[sgjazzfan]

The second unit makes me cringe. That's when the break, which makes our first unit offensive numbers look much better, doesn't work. They have no idea who's going to score or how.

Which is another reason to start Favors and bring AJ or Milsap off the bench.

 

[billyshelby]

Congrats to Marvin for replacing Bell perfectly: 30 minutes, empty box score, and you can never figure out just why he's still out there.

 

[The Norm]

I don't see the point in player complaints. This is the worst Jazz offense since the pre Deron era. We have no plan. We run convoluted cuts under the basket that never result in shots. When we drop the ball into the post, nobody on the perimeter moves. Guys just hoist shots when they want. And everybody hits the panic button when the shot clock gets to 10 which is more than enough time to make something happen. This is all on Ty.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head.

I don't have faith in Ty to teach the Jazz how to run a proper offense because I don't think Ty fully understands how to run a proper offense.

 

[sgjazzfan]

Congrats to Marvin for replacing Bell perfectly: 30 minutes, empty box score, and you can never figure out just why he's still out there.

5 rebounds 2 blocks and 2 steals? 6 points on 5 shots? That is much better than anything Bell did for us last year. And I think in game 1 he tripled Bells season high.

 

[billyshelby]

Which is another reason to start Favors and bring AJ or Milsap off the bench.

My thing is this is not about who is or isn't starting (substitutions are another matter). There is no reason I can think of that Marvin or Hayward, two wings who almost always tower over their defenders, are not being sent constantly to the basket without the ball. If there was any synchronicity, we'd tell Al or Sap to be aggressively going for the shot while they know A) Hayward or Marvin are crashing while B) guys are moving on the perimeter to designated spots. That creates at least 2 passing opportunities to go along with the post offense, and then you have a huge rebounding advantage on the miss.

Instead, we leave Al and Sap hanging out to dry on the initial post entry. They pass out when they're doubled, and a wing player creates an ugly jumper, usually Mo.

 

[billyshelby]

5 rebounds 2 blocks and 2 steals? 6 points on 5 shots? That is much better than anything Bell did for us last year. And I think in game 1 he tripled Bells season high.

Yes, he's better than Bell, and I'm exaggerating to make a point. But how many guys play 30 minutes with those numbers? The last 2 games were equally inept. I'm not writing him off after 4 games, but the dude is Casper out there.

 

[sgjazzfan]

My thing is this is not about who is or isn't starting (substitutions are another matter). There is no reason I can think of that Marvin or Hayward, two wings who almost always tower over their defenders, are not being sent constantly to the basket without the ball. If there was any synchronicity, we'd tell Al or Sap to be aggressively going for the shot while they know A) Hayward or Marvin are crashing while B) guys are moving on the perimeter to designated spots. That creates at least 2 passing opportunities to go along with the post offense, and then you have a huge rebounding advantage on the miss.

Instead, we leave Al and Sap hanging out to dry on the initial post entry. They pass out when they're doubled, and a wing player creates an ugly jumper, usually Mo.

I just think that separating those 2 a little helps get Hayward more touches. I also think that Favors would be great as a complimentary offensive player getting offensive rebounds with the starters.

 

[billyshelby]

Just for the record: Mo Williams is averaging 16 shots a game. That's the highest of his career, and this is a contract year. The plus side is his shooting percentage is pretty good. The downside is he's presently shooting at career high averages. With regression to the mean, those same 16 shots will look uglier and uglier.

 

[sgjazzfan]

Yes, he's better than Bell, and I'm exaggerating to make a point. But how many guys play 30 minutes with those numbers? The last 2 games were equally inept. I'm not writing him off after 4 games, but the dude is Casper out there.

Thats what we get with him. He is OK playing second fiddle. He is one of the least of our teams worries imo.

 

[billyshelby]

I just think that separating those 2 a little helps get Hayward more touches. I also think that Favors would be great as a complimentary offensive player getting offensive rebounds with the starters.

I don't disagree with your thinking. And the second unit needs help that either Al or Sap could provide. I just see a coherent system as being much more important than deciding which players will play YMCA ball on the 1st unit, and which players will play YMCA ball on the second.

 

[sgjazzfan]

I don't disagree with your thinking. And the second unit needs help that either Al or Sap could provide. I just see a coherent system as being much more important than deciding which players will play YMCA ball on the 1st unit, and which players will play YMCA ball on the second.

I agree with that. Jazz need an offense. It has progressively gotten worse since Corbin came in. Now that could be due to the players he's had to work with, but it does need to change.

Now I see what you were saying originally. The problem is they don't have AJ in the second unit. Can't replicate an offense when your offense is... pass it inside, stand around and watch Jefferson.

Incidentally, that is why Marvin is having such blah numbers imo

 

[billyshelby]

Thats what we get with him. He is OK playing second fiddle. He is one of the least of our teams worries imo.

Anybody, ANYBODY, that unproductive for 30 minutes is officially in the 'worry' category unless he's playing defense like Tony Allen which Marvin most definitely is not.

 

[nightmare3983]

Once again, how one sided this damn game has been. MO gets a T for that. What a crap game.

How did Mo not deserve a T for that? Gasol got his deserved flagrant 1 and Mo got his deserved technical.