Gawd No Another Trade Thread

[NUMBERICA]

This is one of those trades the other team post on their board and laughs at. Like how Boston wanted us to trade them Favors for nothing.

Guaran****ingteed.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Trey Lyles was a lotto pick (he still has value even though he's been bad), $7M in savings this year, additional cap space next year, they tank the season this year to add some young top tier talent. I said I'd add the OKC pick as well... that is not nothing.

Both of these players carry significant injury risk which hurts their value... significantly. Guys in last year's of their contract typically don't fetch first round picks and it is tough to say Jrue's contract is great when he has an injury that has had him miss most of the last two years and on a significant minutes restriction now.

Look at trade history... Jeff Green netted a protected first rounder from a playoff team when he was traded (he had two years left on his deal). Thad Young got less at the deadline for MN, but there were circumstances there. Isiah Thomas a healthy productive player on an amazing contract got a first rounder.

Not saying they couldn't do better, but it is not "nothing" or "laughable" as you suggest... I would expect nothing less though from the board's contrarian that wanted to give up Lyles, a first, and contract fodder for the perpetually hurt Wilson Chandler.

Trey Lyles was the 12th pick, he could have easily dropped much lower if the Jazz didn't draft him. Let's not act like he is some undisputed lottery talent, he isn't.

Ryan Anderson and Jrue Holiday can get better than Trey Lyles and cap relief, this is beyond bad trade for New Orleans. I mean, to top off giving away 2 good players, you are giving those players to a team you directly compete with for a playoff spot. They would be giving us Jrue Holiday next year (the guy they are slowly bringing along to health) to either be our starting PG or really ****ing good backup PG. That's insane.

This trade is lol worthy.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Trey Lyles was a lotto pick (he still has value even though he's been bad), $7M in savings this year, additional cap space next year, they tank the season this year to add some young top tier talent. I said I'd add the OKC pick as well... that is not nothing.

Both of these players carry significant injury risk which hurts their value... significantly. Guys in last year's of their contract typically don't fetch first round picks and it is tough to say Jrue's contract is great when he has an injury that has had him miss most of the last two years and on a significant minutes restriction now.

Look at trade history... Jeff Green netted a protected first rounder from a playoff team when he was traded (he had two years left on his deal). Thad Young got less at the deadline for MN, but there were circumstances there. Isiah Thomas a healthy productive player on an amazing contract got a first rounder.

Not saying they couldn't do better, but it is not "nothing" or "laughable" as you suggest... I would expect nothing less though from the board's contrarian that wanted to give up Lyles, a first, and contract fodder for the perpetually hurt Wilson Chandler.

It's laughable. Teams competing with each other for the same few playoff spots don't give up rotation talent for cap relief and a fringe lottery talent who hasnt shown promise.

Every example you outlined involved trades out of conference and where with players who were all very flawed and sometimes disliked by their teams.

Just because someone disagrees with you doesnt mean they are being a "contrarian" it just means you have a terrible idea.

 

[silesian]

We likely need to add salary for next year because we will be below the floor.

Being below the salary floor is an asset, not a liability. Definitely not a reason to do a trade. We can always use the space to take on salary and help another team avoid tax or repeater tax. They will give up assets in return. Also, there is no team penalty for being below the floor, money just goes to players. Jazz pay the floor no matter what happens.

 

[silesian]

there's more overall parity in the league this year, which would help our chances of an improved record.

Parity means lower teams are relatively better and higher teams are relatively worse. If you believe this our probability of a win against better teams goes up and the probability of a win against a worse team goes down. I don't think the net competition is significantly different from last year to this year. Therefore we have to be better to win more, the schedule does not do it for us.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Trey Lyles was the 12th pick, he could have easily dropped much lower if the Jazz didn't draft him. Let's not act like he is some undisputed lottery talent, he isn't.

Ryan Anderson and Jrue Holiday can get better than Trey Lyles and cap relief, this is beyond bad trade for New Orleans. I mean, to top off giving away 2 good players, you are giving those players to a team you directly compete with for a playoff spot. They would be giving us Jrue Holiday next year (the guy they are slowly bringing along to health) to either be our starting PG or really ****ing good backup PG. That's insane.

This trade is lol worthy.

Chad Ford had Lyles as #9 on his final big board... Indiana was considering him and Turner... he wouldn't have fallen much further... it wasn't like we reached.

Regarding your teams in the same division who compete with each other bs... Houston made some trades with OKC.. we traded with OKC... you suggested a trade at the beginning of the season with Denver... we don't compete with them? GMs trade for the best deal... who is going to give more for those guys?

Several posters have said they wouldn't do it from our side... you may think they'd never do it, but it is within the fairness window. I wouldn't overpay for these guys. Holiday may never recover from this injury. Anderson does some great things but he's also a ****ty defender... he is flawed you could say... same with Holiday. It kind of falls right in line with the other comps I've given.

So since you are so smart... Take Holiday out of it because his value has too much variance... What would you trade for Anderson if you are Utah? Would you hold onto him if you are NO and hope he doesn't bolt?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Being below the salary floor is an asset, not a liability. Definitely not a reason to do a trade. We can always use the space to take on salary and help another team avoid tax or repeater tax. They will give up assets in return. Also, there is no team penalty for being below the floor, money just goes to players. Jazz pay the floor no matter what happens.

I understand all of this, but teams won't need to clear space because everyone is getting a bump... those deals are very likely not to be available. It doesn't make sense not to use that asset to improve the team when you are sending the cash out anyway.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

It's laughable. Teams competing with each other for the same few playoff spots don't give up rotation talent for cap relief and a fringe lottery talent who hasnt shown promise.

Every example you outlined involved trades out of conference and where with players who were all very flawed and sometimes disliked by their teams.

Just because someone disagrees with you doesnt mean they are being a "contrarian" it just means you have a terrible idea.

NO isn't competing with us for the last few spots this year... they are toast. Next year maybe, but they have bigger issues they need to address long-term than worry about helping us.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I dont know, I don't know how New Orleans feels about Anderson. If they want to keep him, they probably can in FA.

I know that he is worth at least a first round pick to multiple teams and that Trey Lyles + Cap Relief probably isn't enough for Anderson.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

NO isn't competing with us for the last few spots this year... they are toast. Next year maybe, but they have bigger issues they need to address long-term than worry about helping us.

Bigger issues? Like how to give us a young PG who was an All-Star a few years ago and is on a good contract so they can assuredly never make the playoffs over us even though they have Anthony Davis?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Bigger issues? Like how to give us a young PG who was an All-Star a few years ago and is on a good contract so they can assuredly never make the playoffs over us even though they have Anthony Davis?

They have no one else around Davis... that's the bigger issue. I love that Holiday is an AS PG a few years ago... what has happened since then? 3 years with a lower leg injury that resulted in a lawsuit. He played through the injury in Philly. His body might be broken. That's like trying to value a house based on comps from 3 years ago.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I dont know, I don't know how New Orleans feels about Anderson. If they want to keep him, they probably can in FA.

I know that he is worth at least a first round pick to multiple teams and that Trey Lyles + Cap Relief probably isn't enough for Anderson.

Trey Lyles is worth more than a future first imo. I'd trade the OKC pick for him but that is more of a 1.5 first rounder. Find the team that has the need, the pick, and throw some examples out there. There aren't multiple teams that work all that well. If they think they can keep him and want to pay him (my guess is $12-$16M per for 4 years) so that they can continue winning 45-50 games per year if Davis is healthy then fine. Realistically they need to tank this year and hope they do well in the lotto and bring in some prospects or future assets that will help the team grow.

My guess is Holiday doesn't get traded unless the GM is fired. Anderson will be moved by the deadline if they are out of it and honest with themselves.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

They have no one else around Davis... that's the bigger issue. I love that Holiday is an AS PG a few years ago... what has happened since then? 3 years with a lower leg injury that resulted in a lawsuit. He played through the injury in Philly. His body might be broken. That's like trying to value a house based on comps from 3 years ago.

It makes 0 sense to sell this low on Holiday for Trey freaking Lyles and cap-space while thye also give away Anderson on top.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

It makes 0 sense to sell this low on Holiday for Trey freaking Lyles and cap-space while thye also give away Anderson on top.

Keep Holiday then... but it makes all the sense in the world to sell ready now talent for future picks, prospects, and cap space. they come back healthy and rally to win 30 something games and get a middling prospect vs. a potential stud to pair with Davis.

You clearly hate Lyles but he has more value than you are giving him.

 

[Jeffrey32]

If NOP chucks the season, I would do Booker + 1st rounder + 2nd rounder for Anderson.

 

[gregbroncs]

If NOP chucks the season, I would do Booker + 1st rounder + 2nd rounder for Anderson.

How many Jeffries did you smoke before making this post? Anderson is on the downside of his career and not worth the 1st by itself. He's been a good player and a great fit as a stretch 4 but nobody is giving up a 1st rounder for the rental of an aging player that doesn't get you to a title.

 

[fishonjazz]

Anderson is on the downside of his career and not worth the 1st by itself. He's been a good player and a great fit as a stretch 4 but nobody is giving up a 1st rounder for the rental of an aging player that doesn't get you to a title.

I would like to hear what cy thinks of this post

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I would like to hear what cy thinks of this post

Well he is having a pretty good year thus far and he is only 27, so I really don't get the "downside of his career" thing. As long as he stays healthy, he will probably have a career year or at least right in line with his recent averages.

Would I trade a lot for him? No, not for the Jazz. Doesn't make a lot of sense to dish out a 1st round pick for a guy we could just sign in FA if we really want him. I think some other teams who have a more immediate window would be interested in giving up assets for him.

 

[seattlejazzfan]

Without commenting on what a good trade would be, I will just say Anderson is not on the downside of his career and would be worth a lot for the Jazz as a stretch who rebounds pretty well if the Jazz could re-sign him. Basically Anderson is right now what we hope and pray Lyles will become.

 

[fishonjazz]

Without commenting on what a good trade would be, I will just say Anderson is not on the downside of his career and would be worth a lot for the Jazz as a stretch who rebounds pretty well if the Jazz could re-sign him. Basically Anderson is right now what we hope and pray Lyles will become.

Yep