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Global Warming

Siro, I read it the first time.

I think it's blinders to just consider the past 12000 years. You need to look at least the past three cycles of interglacial warm spells to see if this one is any different. and the answer to that looks like "no" to me, even with AGW. The possibility exists that we are breaking into new or unprecedented territory, but to me that's not clearly strong enough to overcome the -8C drop some natural driver has been ending our warm periods with. . . . So, it's not certain that the AGW concern is justified.

Anyway, there are ways we can as a world or as societies and individuals move to conserve our environment and our status quo that appear to me to be better than the set that is being sold to us by government today. . . . so there you have it. Genuine difference of opinion based on the science we know. It's a mistake to ignore all the things we do know. . . .and just focus on the recent span or the past 12000 years.
 
babe said:
Siro, I read it the first time.

I think it's blinders to just consider the past 12000 years. You need to look at least the past three cycles of interglacial warm spells to see if this one is any different. and the answer to that looks like "no" to me, even with AGW. The possibility exists that we are breaking into new or unprecedented territory, but to me that's not clearly strong enough to overcome the -8C drop some natural driver has been ending our warm periods with. . . . So, it's not certain that the AGW concern is justified.

Anyway, there are ways we can as a world or as societies and individuals move to conserve our environment and our status quo that appear to me to be better than the set that is being sold to us by government today. . . . so there you have it. Genuine difference of opinion based on the science we know. It's a mistake to ignore all the things we do know. . . .and just focus on the recent span or the past 12000 years.
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You're missing the point. Humans didn't live in cities hundreds of thousands of years ago. The cost will be huge because humans have made civilizations around the current climate. When sea level rises and storms get way bigger, land becomes arid, the cost will continue to rise.
 
Sure was warm yesterday for thanksgiving week
 
b_line said:
You're missing the point. Humans didn't live in cities hundreds of thousands of years ago. The cost will be huge because humans have made civilizations around the current climate. When sea level rises and storms get way bigger, land becomes arid, the cost will continue to rise.
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franklin said:
That's a whole lot of speculation. Who are you to claim there won't be economic benefit?
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franklin said:
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There might be economic benefit in the long run. I saw several models that show the situation in Canada and Siberia improving significantly for agriculture. But there will also be consequences for people affected, and those are things we need to equip ourselves to deal with.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Don't know about that, but the skiing sure was great.
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Amazing what they can do with artificial snow making machines these days.

Hell just last week I went up to the weber river to do a little fishin and happened to drive by park city and saw their snow machines runnin full bore.
Wonder if them there snow machines were working that hard 20 years ago
 
fishonjazz said:
Amazing what they can do with artificial snow making machines these days.

Hell just last week I went up to the weber river to do a little fishin and happened to drive by park city and saw their snow machines runnin full bore.
Wonder if them there snow machines were working that hard 20 years ago
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I was on natural snow at Alta. But since you bring up snow machines, were you aware that they require cold temperatures in order to operate?
 
Siro said:
There might be economic benefit in the long run. I saw several models that show the situation in Canada and Siberia improving significantly for agriculture. But there will also be consequences for people affected, and those are things we need to equip ourselves to deal with.
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Or it could lead to programs which bring full employment.


The alarmist stance is built on a foundation of sudden disaster rather than slow and continuous change. Society can deal with changes over thousands of years without need for 100 generations previous to get paranoid over.


Also, your models are packed with so much speculation that they're utterly useless. How are sun spot activity and volcanoes accounted for in them?
 
franklin said:
Or it could lead to programs which bring full employment.


The alarmist stance is built on a foundation of sudden disaster rather than slow and continuous change. Society can deal with changes over thousands of years without need for 100 generations previous to get paranoid over.


Also, your models are packed with so much speculation that they're utterly useless. How are sun spot activity and volcanoes accounted for in them?
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Heh. If those changes are to unfold over 1000s of years, then the whole thing is irrelevant. Can you imagine the level of technology in 1000 years?
 
Siro said:
Then how do they do it in Dubai?
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Lots of air conditioning.

images
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
I was on natural snow at Alta. But since you bring up snow machines, were you aware that they require cold temperatures in order to operate?
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Ya right.
More reverse fear mongering
 
Siro said:
Heh. If those changes are to unfold over 1000s of years, then the whole thing is irrelevant. Can you imagine the level of technology in 1000 years?
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There's no doubt that my great grandchildren will live in a world which is extremely different than the one I did. My own grandparents would be completely out of their element in the world that I live in now. My great grandparents never even saw an automobile. Hell, my own father has never once used the internet. And the pace of change is only accelerating.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
There's no doubt that my great grandchildren will live in a world which is extremely different than the one I did. My own grandparents would be completely out of their element in the world that I live in now. My great grandparents never even saw an automobile. Hell, my own father has never once used the internet. And the pace of change is only accelerating.
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BTW, not everyone gets left behind. A lot of older people "keep up" with tech, and the level of comfort teens have with tech is also a bit exaggerated. I am more adept and "open" with tech now than I ever was, but a lot of my friends, in their 30s and 40s, have already entered their tech-rejection phase. I had to spent 15 minutes convincing a friend that a Kindle is a good solution to his "books are annoying to travel with" problem.
 
Siro said:
BTW, not everyone gets left behind. A lot of older people "keep up" with tech, and the level of comfort teens have with tech is also a bit exaggerated. I am more adept and "open" with tech now than I ever was, but a lot of my friends, in their 30s and 40s, have already entered their tech-rejection phase. I had to spent 15 minutes convincing a friend that a Kindle is a good solution to his "books are annoying to travel with" problem.
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True, but at this point I don't think any amount of talking is going to help my great grandparents catch up.
 
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